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I've now hit the "mostly done with Cyseal proper, but haven't yet found a place to go where I don't get my *** handed to me" stage of the game.  Orcs on the beach to the SW stomped me, so I marked that with a "go back later."  Then I went out the North gate, defeated some zombies, and started circling the city, clockwise, hugging the wall and later the cliffs.  Ended up in a "withered garden" with a number of entertaining traps and some nice loot.  (My first orange-tinted item!)  The 3 Skeleton fighters there were, again, too much for me (I think I was level 4 by then, but only barely), but I successfully lured them into the room full of fireball traps, which took out 2 out of the 3.  I teleported the 3rd onto an explosive mine.  Whee! 

 

I left there, rather than try my hand at what looked like a boss battle up the stairs.  Took several reloads and one resurrection scroll, but I then dealt with some wolves and a friendly talking dog north of there.  The dog ran off, afterwards, though, and I'm not sure what to make of that.  Went back to town instead of chasing him. 

 

I suppose I'll try the northwesterly area next. 

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Halibut. Sheep's cheese. Tomatoes.
 
No one has as many friends as the man with many cheeses!
 
Halibut. Sheep's cheese. Tomatoes.
 
Be the big cheese on your block with a wheel of the good stuff!
 
HALIBUT. SHEEP'S CHEESE. TOMATOES!!!!!!
 
---
 
NO MORE, you little turds!

 

:lol:

 

I love cheese, I have 3 different cookbooks on using cheese in various meals

 

I have been hearing that in my dreams. Anyone know if he shuts up if you kill him or the ambient loops keeps going.

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greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER.

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So I'm late to the party as usual, and have only really just started playing the game over the past day. That might seem an odd thing to say given I'd likely already logged double digit hours into the game prior to that, issues finding continuous blocks of time in which to play the game have meant those hours would be more correctly classified as "messing about" rather than *playing*. I'd spent time wandering around the city, doing sidequests, testing out the utility of various skills and spells, starting the game over at least a half-dozen times (thank god the tutorial dungeon is optional). I had not wandered out of town at all during this time.

 

Now with 23 hours allegedly logged, I've managed to complete a non-sidequest for the first time, and even then it's nothing major, so the game is definitely one that easily chews up the hours. I'll define a proper quest for these purposes as one that awards four digit XP. Even then though, it seems experience gain is heavily, heavily skewed towards killing things. There's token XP for exploration and sidequests, but it takes several awards of that kind of XP to even match that given by killing *one* monster, let alone one encounter's worth. Slightly disappointed by that, but no verdict as to the actual effect of that design decision until I see how it works out in the medium term (only level 5 at this point).

 

Speaking of levels, I'm also slightly disappointed that the game has the old-school empty levels problem, where it lacks any interesting decisions to be made for that particular level. When raising a skill by one requires more than one level's worth of skill points, and there are no other rewards for gaining that level, you have the situation where you literally do nothing on that level-up. I guess you can say it's channeling Baldur's Gate, or indeed 2E rules generally, when it's doing that, but that's an old-school design I'd be happy to get rid of.

 

As to the minimal storyline I've experienced so far, it's nothing new to say it's nothing to write home about. Any pretense of roleplaying my characters straight pretty much went out the window immediately - the decisions are very binary (and worded fairly extremely at that) so your characters end up being more caricatures with no real nuance. You tend to have, say, the choice between a super sunny optimist type answer, or a completely disinterested cynical one, with nothing in between.

 

The investigation aspect was a little obtuse, stuck a while until I realised that

it was perfectly okay to go upstairs in the suspect's house despite a guard being posted such in a way that he was specifically looking at the stairs.

That was a little silly. That, and lockpicking is so ineffectual as to be of very questionable value. You'd think taking a thief, with a point in lockpicking, would be good enough in the early game to get past the locks should you pursue that kind of investigation. I mean that's an uncommon party build in itself already. But nope, have to save up two levels more worth of skillups, and the purchase of crazily expensive (relative to other items) single use lockpicks to even get into most relevant areas. And I say most because even doing that wasn't enough to get into a key place.

 

I also clicked through pretty much all the text during

the part where you're teleported to dimension X or somesuch when the game tries to explain its central menace

because it all seemed like contextless gibberish.

 

 

Anyway, some random plus and minus points that don't fit anywhere else:

+ Combat movement isn't quite as fiddly as I had feared. My concern was potentially having to optimise movement distances by moving the cursor just so you'd go to the point right before the action points required counter went up. Fortunately it's a bit more forgiving than that - you can make 0-point moves if you moved "short" with the previous move.

- That said, the backstab arc is pretty fiddly, it's a pretty small window and you have to rely on the target's 3D model to judge positioning with no absolute marker of what's directly forward and behind. I'd like the arc widened a bit, and maybe the selection circle made thicker for some of its circumference to mark the correct area.

+ Obstruction detection is pretty reasonable, both in terms of abilities showing you when they're obstructed (instead of having you shoot into pillars due to poor feedback), and in terms of it feeling 'right' as to when the obstructions are applied. Moreso than XCOM at least with it's "that's a load of bull" line-of-sight issues.

- Melee positioning all-too-frequently hindered by all sorts of ground effects - mainly fire and poison - early on. Generally okay when done intentionally, such as via spell or barrel, but problematic when it's reactive like creatures that spew out poison when hit. Not even hit and run works so good there.

 

 

 

P.S. Haven't mentioned the crafting at all because I haven't really done any of it. Inventory management is hell for me at the best of times, and while D:OS is short of Bethesda-style lootables insanity, it's still more than I want to deal with at this point. Still, won't complain too much about it, because it's something I'd expected from the day the game came to my attention.

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I've now hit the "mostly done with Cyseal proper, but haven't yet found a place to go where I don't get my *** handed to me" stage of the game.  Orcs on the beach to the SW stomped me, so I marked that with a "go back later."  Then I went out the North gate, defeated some zombies, and started circling the city, clockwise, hugging the wall and later the cliffs.  Ended up in a "withered garden" with a number of entertaining traps and some nice loot.  (My first orange-tinted item!)  The 3 Skeleton fighters there were, again, too much for me (I think I was level 4 by then, but only barely), but I successfully lured them into the room full of fireball traps, which took out 2 out of the 3.  I teleported the 3rd onto an explosive mine.  Whee! 

 

I left there, rather than try my hand at what looked like a boss battle up the stairs.  Took several reloads and one resurrection scroll, but I then dealt with some wolves and a friendly talking dog north of there.  The dog ran off, afterwards, though, and I'm not sure what to make of that.  Went back to town instead of chasing him. 

 

I suppose I'll try the northwesterly area next. 

 

Go West. (Not the beach, but west out the gate near the mortician's house). Because you level up very quickly in early game, just doing a couple of quests in a slightly easier area suddenly makes a big difference in your being able to deal with those things. This is not the case in the next area (Silverglen), where you can do things in almost any order. 

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I've now hit the "mostly done with Cyseal proper, but haven't yet found a place to go where I don't get my *** handed to me" stage of the game.  Orcs on the beach to the SW stomped me, so I marked that with a "go back later."  Then I went out the North gate, defeated some zombies, and started circling the city, clockwise, hugging the wall and later the cliffs.  Ended up in a "withered garden" with a number of entertaining traps and some nice loot.  (My first orange-tinted item!)  The 3 Skeleton fighters there were, again, too much for me (I think I was level 4 by then, but only barely), but I successfully lured them into the room full of fireball traps, which took out 2 out of the 3.  I teleported the 3rd onto an explosive mine.  Whee! 

 

I left there, rather than try my hand at what looked like a boss battle up the stairs.  Took several reloads and one resurrection scroll, but I then dealt with some wolves and a friendly talking dog north of there.  The dog ran off, afterwards, though, and I'm not sure what to make of that.  Went back to town instead of chasing him. 

 

I suppose I'll try the northwesterly area next. 

 

Go West. (Not the beach, but west out the gate near the mortician's house). Because you level up very quickly in early game, just doing a couple of quests in a slightly easier area suddenly makes a big difference in your being able to deal with those things. This is not the case in the next area (Silverglen), where you can do things in almost any order. 

 

 

Indeed.  Amazing how much of a difference fighting 3rd-level opponents makes versus fighting 7th-level opponents. 

 

It was pretty much a coin-flip to me in deciding whether to circle the city clockwise or counter-clockwise.  By choosing the "wrong" direction, I found myself using environmental hazards to win a battle that I was otherwise not ready to face.  That's fantastic.  It might well be the most memorable experience I end up having in this game. 

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I've now hit the "mostly done with Cyseal proper, but haven't yet found a place to go where I don't get my *** handed to me" stage of the game.  Orcs on the beach to the SW stomped me, so I marked that with a "go back later."  Then I went out the North gate, defeated some zombies, and started circling the city, clockwise, hugging the wall and later the cliffs.  Ended up in a "withered garden" with a number of entertaining traps and some nice loot.  (My first orange-tinted item!)  The 3 Skeleton fighters there were, again, too much for me (I think I was level 4 by then, but only barely), but I successfully lured them into the room full of fireball traps, which took out 2 out of the 3.  I teleported the 3rd onto an explosive mine.  Whee! 

 

I left there, rather than try my hand at what looked like a boss battle up the stairs.  Took several reloads and one resurrection scroll, but I then dealt with some wolves and a friendly talking dog north of there.  The dog ran off, afterwards, though, and I'm not sure what to make of that.  Went back to town instead of chasing him. 

 

I suppose I'll try the northwesterly area next. 

 

Go West. (Not the beach, but west out the gate near the mortician's house). Because you level up very quickly in early game, just doing a couple of quests in a slightly easier area suddenly makes a big difference in your being able to deal with those things. This is not the case in the next area (Silverglen), where you can do things in almost any order. 

 

 

Very helpful, thanks, I somehow missed the west gate. Even though I got lost, I prefer that over strictly linear paths. 

All Stop. On Screen.

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I gotta say, I'm really struggling to get in to DOS.

 

My main gripes are pretty much listed above - empty areas and the fact I get my ass handed to me everywhere I go. I appreciate a challenge and I don't suck at games but still...

 

Also, I really want the camera to zoom out farther.

You read my post.

 

You have been eaten by a grue.

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I gotta say, I'm really struggling to get in to DOS.

 

My main gripes are pretty much listed above - empty areas and the fact I get my ass handed to me everywhere I go. I appreciate a challenge and I don't suck at games but still...

 

Also, I really want the camera to zoom out farther.

 

Depends whether your issue is finding "appropriate" level enemies, or being beaten up by them.

 

If level difference is an issue, you'll find that while there's enough XP to stay on the right curve, it's not generous with XP as such, at least in the beginning: you're expected to take advantage of all the available XP. There's

some level two enemies in the cavern under the city, you can get there via the general goods store, the graveyard, or the well *outside* town. Also some pretty handy loot there.

 

 

My own issue was more that being someone who doesn't like gear, consumable and skillbook management, I kept finding I was at a disadvantage against equal-level enemies. Ultimately I found I had to shop around (funded by a burglary spree) to get my gear to a reasonable level and buy appropriate spellbooks rather than the piddly few I started with. That, or turn down the difficulty I guess. Also helped to reasonably distribute the potions and scrolls instead of having one designated mule carry them all....

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Anybody know any legitimate places of where to get the game cheap -- possibly with a Steam key?

 

If you're still looking, $30 at Gaming Dragons. Never bought from them myself though.

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Xp is communal by the way. When I brought back a lv 1 henchman she got an XP boost tha put her ahead of the main characters. Probably because she wasn't dead for any duriation of the XP earning period and therefore not recieving XP. 

 

To max out your XP earning potential raise characters as fast as possible. 

Na na  na na  na na  ...

greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER.

That is all.

 

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Anybody know any legitimate places of where to get the game cheap -- possibly with a Steam key?

 

If you're still looking, $30 at Gaming Dragons. Never bought from them myself though.

They are fine, no problems.
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Not quite got a grip on how XP works with the companions, I think they start at level 3 and some minimum about of XP, such that they'll always be ahead of you if you happen to recruit them while you're at level two (i.e. at the earliest possible opportunity). Unless you lose XP due to death, which is a bit of a bugbear of mine. "Realistic" maybe, but just annoying and encourages reloads if you ever lose anyone even for one enemy (again, exacerbated by the fact that kill XP absolutely dwarfs any other method of XP gain). Actually I didn't reload for deaths a few times, and so am in a bit of a curious position where one companion is lower XP than my player characters, and one is higher. Not as annoying as XP juggling with Might and Magic 10, but still.

 

Anyway, played pretty much the whole day solid. Don't think I've done that for a while, probably since back when XCOM was fresh. And despite all that it doesn't feel like I got all that much further - guessing two-thirds into the first act.

 

That said, I'm going to have a bit of a whinge about my thief. It was mentioned earlier in this thread that the Scoundrel abilities were added late in development, but really, that's probably the least problematic aspect of the thief design (well, sprinting is less useful than you'd imagine but other than that). First and foremost amongst the problems are the dirty deeds skills - all three of them.

 

1) Lockpicking is typically devised as a shortcut, a convenience, a potential aid to sequence breaking. But not so in this game. Anything that's worth lockpicking isn't likely lockpickable at a reasonable skill level ("this lock is too difficult for your skill level" when frankly given skill point progression, I reckon 3 points at level 6 is more than the average investment), and to add insult to injury, it consumes your expensive lockpick regardless of success. Lockpicking, the more expensive and less convenient solution to your problems. (As an aside, disarm trap suffers from the same problems of cost and convenience, but at least isn't bound to any skill or class)

 

2) Pickpocketing is oddly limited as to only be permitted to be used to a certain limit with each NPC. Which is to say, generally you can only ever pickpocket a given person once. To be fair I've barely used the skill though, as early on I found anything worth stealing was "too valuable to steal at this skill level". I doubt further investment will be worth it.

 

3) Sneaking, due to the large encounter design, is rarely of meaningful utility when setting up for combat. With a lot of work, you might get a moderate damage sneak attack in... then be left flapping in the wind against a half dozen heavy-hitting melee opponents. Outside of combat - well you can sneak well enough with zero points investment for the purposes of sneak-lockpicking, pickpocketing, and other mundane tasks.

 

All this then, to be honest, leaves little in the way of utility for the thief. Backstabs are fun if a little fiddly, yes, but then they don't actually have anything to do with thieves in this game: you'd be better served making a backstabbing fighter. Maybe with a point in marksman for the really dangerous meatgrinder melee fights and the added utility of using the leaping retreat skill to jump to enemies instead. All in all it's more than a little bit sad for me because the thief is always my class or build of choice in any RPG.

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You can use one of the teleport skills and jump behind a caster to backstab, but you only get so many hits, then he turns and you get normal damage.

 

Daggers don't do enough damage to be effective over spells or skills even though they only cost 2 AP, but there are lots of useful  skills that require daggers so you can usually disable a caster with  a thief at least.  

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greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER.

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That, and it typically only takes 2ap to walk back around to their behinds again anyway, which is still three attacks at my level (8ap/turn), all criticals. It's not uncompetitive at the moment, but that's probably only because I'm finding Madora only has the AP to perform one attack a turn on average. Once she gets the second attack, it'll be no contest again.

 

But yeah, both a knockdown and a stun on demand is pretty good, even if the cooldown is such that it's only one use of each per fight.

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I didn't have trouble picking almost every lock in Cyseal - I had 2 in Lockpick with 1 then soon 2 extra from gear. Notable exceptions were

Evelyn's house

, though it makes sense that door would be very hard to pick and it would also risk accidentally depriving casual lockpickers of a huge chunk of the storyline. For lockpicking, crafting, and other situational skills it's important to keep an eye out for stat upgrade gear and keep them close.

 

Pickpocketing I've never thought was very fun or useful in almost any game.

 

Sneaking is incredibly, incredibly important. (1) Your sneak character can begin the combat with a bang (double damage in Guerilla) or by stunning / charming one of the enemies, or by blowing up a barrel; (2) you can re-enter stealth in combat for 4AP, dependent on how visible you are and your sneak skill. E.g. you can build a sneaking marksman with high speed who shoots (double damage in Guerilla), sneaks, shoots again, etc.

 

I'm planning a sneaky-marksman & sneaky-fighter run right now, from what I've seen they can be very useful.

 

 

 

Honestly without spells or a bow your thief won't be of very much use in combat.

The whole combat system weights far too heavily on magic and elemental damage.

 

Incorrect. Thieves can be useful. As for others, two-handed fighter with man-at-arms, especially with 1 Witchcraft (for Oath of Desecration) can not only be the best damage dealer after mid-game, he can also do crowd control with the likes of battering ram.

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I carry a bow with anyone otherwise incapable of doing ranged damage, it's surely an RPG tradition to do so. Wish there was a quick switch function though, the 2ap cost is fair enough but I'd rather not have to hunt for my weapons in the inventory screen every time.

 

With lockpicking the issue is just as much that the locks you can pick almost always have conveniently findable keys - heck that might have been some useful synergy there with pickpocket, but nope.

But yeah, the lock I couldn't get past initially was Evelyn's, after that I think I also had an issue with a lock or two in the Black Cove which boiled down to "you must solve the "puzzle" and kill the boss before having access to this loot. And I don't think it'd have been all that gamebreaking to have Evelyn's house accessible, all it does is really save you from having to accuse Esmeralda first.

 

 

Sneaking again is a matter not necessarily of the stealth in the first place, since, after all, it's required to enable certain abilities. Not sensing all that much of a tangible benefit in putting much in the way of points into it though, since if an NPC isn't looking in your direction, it hardly matters whether you're a master sneak or not. I question the utility of restealthing in combat too, because since an attack costs 2ap, the ability would need to cost 1ap (or zero) to give any advantage - otherwise just attack again which is functionally the same as double damage. So I'm still not seeing the benefit of it in combat outside performing openers, and frankly opening with a spell would probably be just as advantageous, if not moreso.

 

EDIT: Further, the ranged sneak attack would not need any points investment either, so really, all the points really do is be useful for trying to get the opener with a thief, which is of questionable tactical value, and precious little else.

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I'm finding Madora only has the AP to perform one attack a turn on average. 

 

Since my fire mage has the Haste-equivalent spell, Madora has become my biggest damage dealer. (Rain being a sensible choice more often than not doesn't help said fire mage do her stuff really efficiently, so she's usually buffing.)

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Bow: I did this in my first game and found that the AP cost + the lack of damage from low Dex and low skill investment makes it not worthwhile. Unless you're, say, giving your fighter dex & bow skills, in which case, you're gimping the entire character. Which is fine if you want to do that, but then of course things will become harder.

 

Sneak at 4AP is advantageous for a marksman for instance, because even with quickdraw a bow attack is 5AP. As for melee, the point is (1) restealthing at end of turn can make your guy invisible for the entire turn; (2) potentially meaning you don't need to waste AP repositioning for a backstab. 

 

Higher sneak levels narrows enemies' cone of vision and their awareness levels, which can be crucial for a successful sneak. Even for ranged characters, you're not always so far away from everybody that you can do it with impunity at level 0 and still be close enough for good THC.

 

Edit: I don't know if they fixed this, but I think Guerilla & Backstab is also meant to stack. So, restealth and backstab = quadriple damage, and maybe it stacks with Bully, even? Time to find out.

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"My main gripes are pretty much listed above - empty areas and the fact I get my ass handed to me everywhere I go. I appreciate a challenge and I don't suck at games but still..."

 

The game isn't hard. I wouldn't neccessarily call it 'easy' but I would say it's fine. The best tip early on is just try to fight creatures your own level. And, if you see something 3 levels higher run don't walk. L0L

 

 

"Sneaking is incredibly, incredibly important."

 

No, it isn't. I haven't used it once. Same with pick pocket. People complain about lack of money but this game is at ph@t lewt heaven as any game. Some battles  you end up with 10+ magic items (not counting potions or scrolls).

 

 

"As for others, two-handed fighter with man-at-arms, especially with 1 Witchcraft (for Oath of Desecration)"

 

Your fighter doesn't need to do that. Just have a spellcaster with witchcraft cast it on them. My first round with spellcaster is usually, depending on situation, haste + oath on fighter or one of those plus a summon if I think I'll need the extra distraction.Also, one cna't ignore the man at arms extra talents. Some of them are doozies even if they cost points. The two abilities  that make you spin attack ie. whirlwind (dustdevil and the other one) are good. And, flurry is deadly - just don't use it when you areblinded. HAHA!

 

 

  Anyways, a certain skill you get later on annoys me. It replaces other abilities in that pisses me off. Such a waste of skill points.

 

Whatever issues I have with the game, it is still a  very fun game.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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I gotta say, I'm really struggling to get in to DOS.

 

My main gripes are pretty much listed above - empty areas and the fact I get my ass handed to me everywhere I go. I appreciate a challenge and I don't suck at games but still...

 

Also, I really want the camera to zoom out farther.

 

Depends whether your issue is finding "appropriate" level enemies, or being beaten up by them.

 

If level difference is an issue, you'll find that while there's enough XP to stay on the right curve, it's not generous with XP as such, at least in the beginning: you're expected to take advantage of all the available XP. There's

some level two enemies in the cavern under the city, you can get there via the general goods store, the graveyard, or the well *outside* town. Also some pretty handy loot there.

 

 

My own issue was more that being someone who doesn't like gear, consumable and skillbook management, I kept finding I was at a disadvantage against equal-level enemies. Ultimately I found I had to shop around (funded by a burglary spree) to get my gear to a reasonable level and buy appropriate spellbooks rather than the piddly few I started with. That, or turn down the difficulty I guess. Also helped to reasonably distribute the potions and scrolls instead of having one designated mule carry them all....

 

 

 

It's the level appropriate enemies issue. I'll have a look under the town at that cavern, thanks for the heads up! :)

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The strong point of the game is definitely the combat and the character system. The character system is not very balanced but it has a buttload of active abilities which most class-less systems lack. And as you get higher the combat does gets a lot easier because of the resistances your characters build up.

But despite these flaws they are strong enough to carry the game.

I don't think the story or the quest design is very strong and I didn't feel like bothering with the convoluted crafting system, but I'll play it through till the end just for the combat.

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