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Update #81: The Front Line: Fighters and Barbarians

Update 81 Fighter Barbarian Class E3

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#41
nikolokolus

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As a fan of barbarian archetypes in fantasy, but generally not a fan of the way they have been translated into RPGs/CRPGs over the years, I am somewhat hopeful after reading this update that somebody finally got it right. Still have to see how it plays hands-on, but the aesthetic seems spot on so far.

Thank you!
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#42
BAdler

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Looks like a different artist, although the darker lines on the cape and chin look a bit like Polina's "style".

Interesting anyway.

 

The portrait was done by an artist we hired and not by our in-house team.


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#43
Gfted1

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Still cant take a grip on how iteligence of barbarian affect how many targets he hits by AoE. Well, I will have to live with it

 

I think its just a flat rule for all AoE. Iirc, spells with an AoE component work the same way, even going so far as to be adjustable in size (unless that has changed).



#44
Sensuki

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Looks like a different artist, although the darker lines on the cape and chin look a bit like Polina's "style".

Interesting anyway.

 
The portrait was done by an artist we hired and not by our in-house team.


There you go.

Thanks :)
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#45
Zed

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The picture hides half the face which makes it a pretty poor portrait. Looking at something in an angle could reflect personailty, but not in this case. It just obscures. The quality is great tho.

 

But is it even a portrait? Could be concept art, or something else?


Edited by Zed, 25 June 2014 - 10:38 AM.


#46
Mannock

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The picture hides half the face which makes it a pretty poor portrait. Looking at something in an angle could reflect personailty, but not in this case. It just obscures. The quality is great tho.

 

But is it even a portrait? Could be concept art, or something else?

 

The picture is named "portrait female human". So one would assume it's a portrait.


Edited by Mannock, 25 June 2014 - 10:41 AM.

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#47
Solviulnir the Soulbinder

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Very nice update. One thing that caught my attention - you have only mentioned weapon specialisations... Is there an option (like in the AD&D/IE games) to choose a weapon *and shield* specialisation? Or do the fighters automatically gain the ability to use one-handed weapon(s) together with shield without specialisation? Are there any special uses for the shields in PoE? Can you perform attacks with them?

 

Also - Nonek was right about the fighter(?) lady portrait. It's a great artwork but the face seems a bit skewed. That's because the lips are too wide, try to cover the corner of her lip with your mouse cursor and the face proportions will look more natural.

Thanks for the update!
 



#48
Elerond

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Hmm, I was keeping back on that footage disscusion running around forums, but in couple of months we should see complete game, not footage. This is disturbing.

 

No... in a couple of months we may have a beta. Did you miss the late December release date announcement?

 

2-3 month before release can not be called beta anymore. It is like what EA does with stuff like Battlefield. It is a public Demo nothing else.

 

 

Define "beta" for us, Darji.

 

 

Beta is something they work constantly on. They polish things change things in terms of  interface, dialogues and so on.  Beta is something you should constantly feedback about balance and through their changes. That will normally take many month if they do it for real.  Wasteland 2 for example had a Beta,  Divinity had a Alpha and Beta and there was a constantly change in these ones. If you give people the beta  2-3 month before release that means 1-2 month before everything should be finished  than you will not get the needed feedback.

 

 

As they said before. They are already in a Beta status in their studios. And this is the moment Beta testers or backers in this case should be involved. 

 

 

A EA beta or Demo is something you only do balancing stuff through data they collect  from players.  

 

 

Beta is state where software is before it is after alpha state and before release candidate state. But there is no definite definitions for those states, but they are defined by developers themselves so that they themselves know that how ready software is and what kind work it still needs. Software is usually considered to be in beta state when it has all features and content that release version needs are done at least such level that testing and polishing of whole product can start, but this isn't always the case, as such definition don't always work with development process that developing team uses.

 

So beta is meaningless term if you don't know definition for it that developers of software in question use for it.

 

And from previous update you can see that Obsidian uses alpha and beta states to determine how ready each of their teams are addition to overall state of game. And they use beta to define state where all content and features are done, but not necessary on such level that game is actually playable from start to finish, let alone that it is enjoyable to play or that it ready enough to give for beta testers to play in their opinion. 

 

Softwares especially games can be months in beta state without actually being in state where they are actually usable on level that even resembles final product, which is state that most non-developer beta access backers probably excepts to get their hands on.



#49
talharbash

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Please reconsider your stance on a couple of months before any new footage is released to the backers/public.

 

Thank you.



#50
NWN_babaYaga

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thank you for the update guys. Fighter classes are what i play the most so this was appreciated ... but now i sit here not having the game ... uahhhh i want my video footage.... :D

 

Nah, joke aside. I´m happy to wait until it is ready and since i´m not the "evil"... publisher why should i start to act like them... anyone?

 

So thanks again for you jumping in here answering questions :)

 

I realy want to play the game... damn! ;)

 

PS:

and no one can define when a game is in beta except the people / devs involved so any discussion about when how and what why not is just hot air!


Edited by NWN_babaYaga, 25 June 2014 - 10:54 AM.


#51
J.E. Sawyer

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Very nice update. One thing that caught my attention - you have only mentioned weapon specialisations... Is there an option (like in the AD&D/IE games) to choose a weapon *and shield* specialisation? Or do the fighters automatically gain the ability to use one-handed weapon(s) together with shield without specialisation? Are there any special uses for the shields in PoE? Can you perform attacks with them?

 

We do not currently have "style" specializations, but it's something we'd like to do if there's time.  If so, it would be implemented as a Talent that a variety of characters could take.  Shields don't inherently have special abilities beyond boosting the wielder's Deflection and slowing their overall weapon attack rate.


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#52
bonarbill

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Update by Josh Sawyer, Project Director
 

There have been some questions about why we chose to do a closed door demo for the press and have not released footage from the demo. While the demo looked great, there are still parts of the game that need more polish before we release videos to the public. In addition, a lot of the demo footage was filled with spoilers and we would like to show off portions that are less critical to the story. Look for a video that shows some non-spoiler, polished gameplay sometime in the next couple of months.

 

 

Ugh.



#53
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I'm torn. Barbarians sound fun, but I like my melee people to carry shields because I like shields (because they can have colours and heraldry and can just really complete an ensemble) and barbarians don't really seem like a class that would rely heavily on shields.

 

Then again, berserkers used shields, so why shouldn't barbarians?

 

Probably because when I think 'barbarian' I think 'Arnold Schwarzenegger in a loincloth'.



#54
Sensuki

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We do not currently have "style" specializations, but it's something we'd like to do if there's time.  If so, it would be implemented as a Talent that a variety of characters could take.  Shields don't inherently have special abilities beyond boosting the wielder's Deflection and slowing their overall weapon attack rate.


Is that a change from minus Accuracy? or do shields also slow down your recovery time as well as heavier ones reducing accuracy?
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#55
Darji

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Hmm, I was keeping back on that footage disscusion running around forums, but in couple of months we should see complete game, not footage. This is disturbing.

 

No... in a couple of months we may have a beta. Did you miss the late December release date announcement?

 

2-3 month before release can not be called beta anymore. It is like what EA does with stuff like Battlefield. It is a public Demo nothing else.

 

 

Define "beta" for us, Darji.

 

 

Beta is something they work constantly on. They polish things change things in terms of  interface, dialogues and so on.  Beta is something you should constantly feedback about balance and through their changes. That will normally take many month if they do it for real.  Wasteland 2 for example had a Beta,  Divinity had a Alpha and Beta and there was a constantly change in these ones. If you give people the beta  2-3 month before release that means 1-2 month before everything should be finished  than you will not get the needed feedback.

 

 

As they said before. They are already in a Beta status in their studios. And this is the moment Beta testers or backers in this case should be involved. 

 

 

A EA beta or Demo is something you only do balancing stuff through data they collect  from players.  

 

 

Beta is state where software is before it is after alpha state and before release candidate state. But there is no definite definitions for those states, but they are defined by developers themselves so that they themselves know that how ready software is and what kind work it still needs. Software is usually considered to be in beta state when it has all features and content that release version needs are done at least such level that testing and polishing of whole product can start, but this isn't always the case, as such definition don't always work with development process that developing team uses.

 

So beta is meaningless term if you don't know definition for it that developers of software in question use for it.

 

And from previous update you can see that Obsidian uses alpha and beta states to determine how ready each of their teams are addition to overall state of game. And they use beta to define state where all content and features are done, but not necessary on such level that game is actually playable from start to finish, let alone that it is enjoyable to play or that it ready enough to give for beta testers to play in their opinion. 

 

Softwares especially games can be months in beta state without actually being in state where they are actually usable on level that even resembles final product, which is state that most non-developer beta access backers probably excepts to get their hands on.

 

3 things:

 

1.  Alpha is a status  when the whole game is playable but not all features are integrated.  That is the actual definition you also hear from other kickstarter Campaigns.  AAA-developers like Guerilla Games for example also  define it like that when they are talking about an alpha build. 

 

2. Beta is a status in which most features  are already integrated into the game and most of the polishing is beginning. As Obsidian said They are already in Beta so at this point people who backed the amount should get involved. They were promised a Beta not some publicity beta or demo shortly before the release. 

 

3. Being Beta does not mean you will get the whole game at all in the first place. You get a small part of it. Most likely the starting Area like in divinity's case the first City and near locations. Which is like 1/4 or even less of the full game. Through this potion however people can give a ton of feedback on the starting stuff like how skills work if they are useful overpowered etc.  And through these information the actual dev team can continue to polish and finish the rest of the game. It is about usability, inventory skill system, level up system, interaction in the world. Atmosphere consistency of the world and so on. 

 

If you do all this with let us say 2-3 month before release there is not much possibilities to change things even if people not liking some parts etc.  All these RPG kickstarter campaigns have gotten a ton of feedback through these betas  and it only changed so much because i was a long process and not shortly before the actual game is being released. 

 

Note this is all under the assumption that the Winter release still stands. If not they are "lying" or better do not tell us this about this as well. 


Edited by Darji, 25 June 2014 - 11:22 AM.


#56
Valorian

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Very nice update. One thing that caught my attention - you have only mentioned weapon specialisations... Is there an option (like in the AD&D/IE games) to choose a weapon *and shield* specialisation? Or do the fighters automatically gain the ability to use one-handed weapon(s) together with shield without specialisation? Are there any special uses for the shields in PoE? Can you perform attacks with them?

 

We do not currently have "style" specializations, but it's something we'd like to do if there's time.  If so, it would be implemented as a Talent that a variety of characters could take.  Shields don't inherently have special abilities beyond boosting the wielder's Deflection and slowing their overall weapon attack rate.

 

 

Oh, too bad. I hope there's time to implement it.

Fighting style talents are great and I thought that was in.

 

http://jesawyer.tumb...-specialisation

 

If it's 1 talent per 3 levels (not counting quest talents etc.), I want them to be awesome™.  :yes:


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#57
forgottenlor

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Hm, tbh I'm neither interested in fighters nor in barbarians. IIRC I didn't have any of them in my favorite BG2 party. But maybe I have to in PoE since classes seem to be even more specialised than in D&D.

 

Thanks for the update but I'm still waiting for that gameplay footage.

Did you play any other infinity engine game without these classes? If so it doesn't sound like you'd have that much more of a problem than playing Baldur's Gate I or Icewind Dale with no fighters. I don't see why a mixture of other melee types like cyphers, paladins, rogues, and chanters couldn't be built into a front line. It would be more challenging than using a front line with a fighter, barbarian, or monk, but I imagine not as challenging as playing Baldur's Gate I with no fighters up front.


Edited by forgottenlor, 25 June 2014 - 11:53 AM.


#58
HoopyFreud

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I almost feel disinclined to play as a Barbarian now. The hidden stamina and heath bars will make me a little too nervous to put my character avatar in the front lines, very much vulnerable to death and a subsequent game over (assuming that Ironman is enabled). Maybe hide the Stamina bar but not the Health bar? It would make thematic sense - the Barbarian can't distinguish minor wounds while Frenzying, but deeper wounds still register. In any case, I'm looking forward to the Fighter, but Chanter, Cipher, and Monk seem so damned cool to play. I can't wait to see how it plays out.

 

Also, to those bitching about beta access and footage - why? The release is getting closer, but it's still six months away. This is a game that's going to be heavily plotted; unless all you want is a combat sandbox, I don't know what you expect Obsidian to deliver at this point, and I'm not really interested in playing Eternity for the combat anyway.


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#59
J.E. Sawyer

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I'm torn. Barbarians sound fun, but I like my melee people to carry shields because I like shields (because they can have colours and heraldry and can just really complete an ensemble) and barbarians don't really seem like a class that would rely heavily on shields.

 

Then again, berserkers used shields, so why shouldn't barbarians?

 

There's nothing mechanically wrong with equipping a barbarian with a shield.  You're just trading overall damage output for Deflection bonus.

 

 

We do not currently have "style" specializations, but it's something we'd like to do if there's time.  If so, it would be implemented as a Talent that a variety of characters could take.  Shields don't inherently have special abilities beyond boosting the wielder's Deflection and slowing their overall weapon attack rate.


Is that a change from minus Accuracy? or do shields also slow down your recovery time as well as heavier ones reducing accuracy?

 

All shields increase Deflection and slow down Recovery Time.  Small shields have no Accuracy penalty.  Medium and heavy shields have proportionally higher Deflection bonuses and Accuracy penalties.


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#60
mstark

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Does Carnage, and other special attacks that use default attack animations, have any sort of visual/audio feedback when it is performed?

 

(Btw, the recent "choose your own adventure" action dialogue window that was released along E3 previews looks absolutely fantastic, love the typography)


Edited by mstark, 25 June 2014 - 12:32 PM.

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