Gromnir Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) where did we get it? what thread are you reading? "Coming from you that's rich. "You said the companies want something, I said the consumer wants something too. The companies aren't too broken up about what the consumer wants so why should the consumer care what the companies want? "My point exactly, why should we care that they didn't meet their ridiculously high numbers? That doesn't mean we should buy more or pay at a higher price, it means that those people need to reevaluate what kind of profit they can make from games." so, am gonna essentially repeat our self by responding to same nonsense again. as a corporate entity that sells shares, publishers rasion detre is to be making money. you don't like it? you says "most" companies is baddie no-goodnicks? HA! you is making your position less tenable and not more with your complaints 'bout Gromnir characterizations of your posting. piracy will not fix your imagined evils, regardless o' the strawman 'bout "ridiculous high numbers," whatever the hell that means. what the consumer wants is expressed by how they spend their dollars or euros or whatever. you don't like what a publisher is selling? Shocking Revelation: you don't have to buy what they is selling. ... this is getting ludicrous, even for Gromnir. HA! Good Fun! Again who said piracy is going to fix anything. My opinion is right there where you quoted me. They don't care about us I don't care about them... is even better. at least if you had some misguided notion that what you were doing is Right, you could at least argue that you have a reason to pirate. so, you don't care and you think that makes your position weaker or stronger? wacky stuff. "No Gromnir don't give up, it will be a first for you and your record for debating right to the end will be ruined. Be resolute !!!!" we give up all the time. sure, our stamina for such things is extreme, but am hardly indefatigable. HA! Good Fun! Edited June 5, 2014 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Sarex Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) didn't even bother to reply to the weak-sauce. you is much attached to "most" silliness today. so, prove it. the act o' piracy is rather compelling initial evidence that an individual wanted the intellectual property in question. so, rebut that. HA! Good Fun! Wanted it for free is not the same as wanted to pay for it. Come on use your brain at least. is even better. at least if you had some misguided notion that what you were doing is Right, you could at least argue that you have a reason to pirate. so, you don't care and you think that makes your position weaker or stronger? wacky stuff. "No Gromnir don't give up, it will be a first for you and your record for debating right to the end will be ruined. Be resolute !!!!" we give up all the time. sure, our stamina for such things is extreme, but am hardly indefatigable. HA! Good Fun! I have never once said that pirating is "Right". Twist and turn my words all you want, it just makes you look stupid. Edited June 5, 2014 by Sarex "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP
Gromnir Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) wait, isnt pirating same thing as not buying in terms of profit for producer?as vol would says, "no." also, http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66262-piracy-or-not/?p=1454894 HA! Good Fun! Sorry, my math is not strongest, but if producer make 0 for not selling, or 0 for someone else pirate it, its still 0 in my book, am I missing something? actually already responded to this in a post to sarex, so... regardless, is a side issue. sarex were complaining 'bout excessive profits. Gromnir pointed out that is a big difference 'tween profits and profitability. simple profit cannot sustain a game publisher. the larger the investment, the greater the profit one needs to legitimize given alternative investment opportunities. whatever you genuine think is the impact o' piracy on profits, the fact o' the matter is that sarex notions o' ridiculous high numbers n' such is laughable. is also beside the point as, y'know, the holder o' the intellectual property rights is telling you not to pirate their stuff. "I have never once said that pirating is "Right". Twist and turn my words all you want, it just makes you look stupid." *chuckle* you has been trying to justify piracy for how many pages? we questioned you: in the absence o' a stance o' right, is your arguments stronger or weaker? if you is voluntarily conceding that you don't have right on your side, well... thanks? am not sure if you realize you is weakening your own position though. you don't seem clear on much at all in this thread. HA! Good Fun! Edited June 5, 2014 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Hurlshort Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) This is a thread about piracy though. Why are you arguing again? When you enter a thread about piracy and start complaining about corporate greed, it is going to come across as justification for piracy. Just like when you post that you dont buy adobe products but enjoy them, most people will assume you mean you pirate, since this is a thread on piracy. Edited June 5, 2014 by Hurlshot 2
Gromnir Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 This is a thread about piracy though. Why are you arguing again? When you enter a thread about piracy and start complaining about corporate greed, it is going to come across as justification for piracy. Just like when you post that you dont buy adobe products but enjoy them, most people will assume you mean you pirate, since this is a thread on piracy. he already conceded that he pirates. am recalling a specific and somewhat amusing example of textbooks, yes? *shrug* we don't drink alcohol, so perhaps we is being naive when we observe that posting on message boards while inebriated is a recipe for disaster. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
BruceVC Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 This is a thread about piracy though. Why are you arguing again? When you enter a thread about piracy and start complaining about corporate greed, it is going to come across as justification for piracy. Just like when you post that you dont buy adobe products but enjoy them, most people will assume you mean you pirate, since this is a thread on piracy. he already conceded that he pirates. am recalling a specific and somewhat amusing example of textbooks, yes? *shrug* we don't drink alcohol, so perhaps we is being naive when we observe that posting on message boards while inebriated is a recipe for disaster. HA! Good Fun! I think you are making perfect sense so don't think the alcohol is making your logic incoherent. The issue is Sarex just doesn't understand how businesses work, grow or the important role they play in the economies of countries "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Malcador Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 This is a thread about piracy though. Why are you arguing again? When you enter a thread about piracy and start complaining about corporate greed, it is going to come across as justification for piracy. Just like when you post that you dont buy adobe products but enjoy them, most people will assume you mean you pirate, since this is a thread on piracy. Seems like a problem with the receiving end then, to be honest. Not sure what the reason for the argument is anyway, not like any of you are actually going to change your stance at all so. Well other than just being **** as usual. 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
BruceVC Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 This is a thread about piracy though. Why are you arguing again? When you enter a thread about piracy and start complaining about corporate greed, it is going to come across as justification for piracy. Just like when you post that you dont buy adobe products but enjoy them, most people will assume you mean you pirate, since this is a thread on piracy. Seems like a problem with the receiving end then, to be honest. Not sure what the reason for the argument is anyway, not like any of you are actually going to change your stance at all so. Well other than just being **** as usual. Such cynicism young grasshopper, such cynicism. Did it ever occur to you that maybe after reading all the various comments someone who was going to pirate something will decide not to? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Malcador Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 Such cynicism young grasshopper, such cynicism. Did it ever occur to you that maybe after reading all the various comments someone who was going to pirate something will decide not to? Yes, for many a software pirate has read some lecturing by some faceless Internet poster and decided to fall in line. If it were that easy the "BUY THE GAME IF YOU LIKE IT" notes in the .nfo's would work 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Bryy Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 Well that settles it,t he next time my favorite show gets cancelled, I'm going to kidnap the cast and crew and make them shoot new episodes. Some Firefly fan will do it, eventually, those people are loons. Nathan Fillion lived a carefree life until one day he found someone in his living room. Now he has security.
Sarex Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Seems like a problem with the receiving end then, to be honest. Not sure what the reason for the argument is anyway, not like any of you are actually going to change your stance at all so. Well other than just being **** as usual. But in the end why does anyone come to the forums anyways, but to lose some time and have some good laughs. you has been trying to justify piracy for how many pages? we questioned you: in the absence o' a stance o' right, is your arguments stronger or weaker? if you is voluntarily conceding that you don't have right on your side, well... thanks? am not sure if you realize you is weakening your own position though. you don't seem clear on much at all in this thread. HA! Good Fun! Not really, I have been saying that piracy is not as big of a problem you make it out to be. But there are some real hardliners here... Edited June 5, 2014 by Sarex "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP
Gromnir Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 This is a thread about piracy though. Why are you arguing again? When you enter a thread about piracy and start complaining about corporate greed, it is going to come across as justification for piracy. Just like when you post that you dont buy adobe products but enjoy them, most people will assume you mean you pirate, since this is a thread on piracy. Seems like a problem with the receiving end then, to be honest. Not sure what the reason for the argument is anyway, not like any of you are actually going to change your stance at all so. Well other than just being **** as usual. we find the reasonings o' folks regarding piracy to be genuine fascinating. is many folks who engage in piracy who is knowing it is wrong. is folks who would never think o' stealing, but if they find a wallet on the ground with a couple hundred dollars in it, they might be tempted to keep the money rather than returning. piracy is similar in that it is so easy and most folks assume they won't ever be caught, but at least most folks recognize that piracy is wrong. the thing is, we is curious 'bout the folks who try to justify their piracy. am also curious 'bout the geographic rather than socioeconomic idiosyncrasies. this will be the last time we link http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66262-piracy-or-not/page-7?do=findComment&comment=1454894 piracy gots same excuses. the excuses with our voyeurs scenario seem silly, but for reasons we cannot understand, the excuses is convincing to folks when the info being pirated is a computer game, movie, or tv episode. yeah, is unlikely we glean any new insights, but the reasonings is curious, no? HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Bryy Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 we find the reasonings o' folks regarding piracy to be genuine fascinating. My favorite this far has got to be "blacks don't make enough money and white people don't like them so they have to pirate".
Mor Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 ..I wasn't addressing the Australian market, or arguing for against their pricing policy, however, I was addressing your astonishment that location mater even in the digital world. That the idea that average income\cost of living, local currency\exchange-rate, various local import quirks\licensing such etc (e.g. special censored version for Australia and Germany, exclusives and iirc Microsoft had extensive cheaper programs for developing word counties with low income) can be factored into company pricing policy is not only not new, but have been common practice for ever, everywhere. With the point being, that like it or not, it is their choice. As for steam, I have no idea what you rumbling about, if your store prices are cheaper then its a no brainier buy it in the store, let them get the clue through cut in demand\profit. (assuming that they are overpricing their package there as you suggest, which hasn't been my experience here) and yes I assumed that you spoke about about pirating adobe products, just as I assume that all the above were handed as various justification for piracy, otherwise I have no idea why are you posting in this thread..
Hiro Protagonist II Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) I wasn't addressing the Australian market, or arguing for against their pricing policy, however, I was addressing your astonishment that location mater even in the digital world. That the idea that average income\cost of living, local currency\exchange-rate, various local import quirks\licensing such etc (e.g. special censored version for Australia and Germany, exclusives and iirc Microsoft had extensive cheaper programs for developing word counties with low income) can be factored into company pricing policy is not only not new, but have been common practice for ever, everywhere. With the point being, that like it or not, it is their choice. You weren't addressing the Australian market and then go on to why it costs more with the Australian market with different taxes, exchange rates, etc? Sounds like you were trying to justify the high prices in different countries where there is no justification at all. The example I cited was for Rage in 2010. The exchange rate was around $1.15 to the US$. That means if a game on Steam is US$60 then converting it to AUD would come to approx AU$52.20. What we saw on Steam is AU$90.00 eight months after release. Remember this is a digital distribution platform. As for steam, I have no idea what you rumbling about, if your store prices are cheaper then its a no brainier buy it in the store, let them get the clue through cut in demand\profit. (assuming that they are overpricing their package there as you suggest, which hasn't been my experience here) hang on. I gave an example with Steam. You now say you have no idea what I'm rumbling about and then do the opposite and try to justify the high prices on that very same platform. Oh boy. Also, with Steam. Yes, they've done some good, but they've also done some bad too. And it seems nobody wants to acknowledge the bad. It comes across as fanboyism. And we see that with keeping games at high prices when their physical equivalent is 1/3 the price in stores. eg. Rage. The market has changed but Steam refuses to play ball with the market. What I've proposed in this thread is to open the market as was the case with my GoT post. and yes I assumed that you spoke about about pirating adobe products, just as I assume that all the above were handed as various justification for piracy, otherwise I have no idea why are you posting in this thread.. No where in this thread have I said I pirate, give excuses or justified it. In fact, it's been the opposite and have come out and said in one post I have never pirated a PC game in all my life and I've been playing PC games for over 25 years. What I have said is I gave a why some people might do it with one example being a TV Show, it being pulled from the market (from iTunes and Googleplay) and people used to have access to a legal means now don't. And the owner of that content didn't care if you did pirate. That's a why some people might do it, not excusing it or justifying it. With adobe products, everyone knows and says the price is too high in Australia. Which is why it went to a parliamentary inquiry. Even the government and adobe knows it. The only two people I see trying to make half baked reasons are adobe and Mor on this forum. Just because I say I enjoy adobe products but I would never pay for it myself doesn't mean I pirate. All it means is I enjoy adobe products but I would never pay for it myself. There are so many ways to read that in a piracy thread. But of course there's only one way to read it for some posters here. And posting in this thread? Can't I give my opinion on such matters? Just like you? Edited June 5, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II 1
Gizmo Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) The obvious problem with that analog, that in the real world we are on a tight budget, if something is too pricey we wait for the price to drop, buy another cheaper product, or not buy anything at all. Which is not true for the internet where you can easily grab it and get away with it.That's not the problem. A content creator should be allowed to name their price (to whatever extreme) ~and fail to sell, or not... The problem is enforcement [fines and eventually imprisonment] against those who would take the products willingly and unabashedly against the designer's wish, when it's not theirs to have without recompense. Is it so different from a punk on the street grabbing a drunk's wallet and taking snapshots of his ID and credit cards... He didn't 'steal' them, they're still in the wallet and the drunk has them... but they knowingly did it because they knew the fellow could not do anything about it ~~wouldn't even remember the event or know who to accuse. It's brazen viciousness, and the person that gets away with taking a gum-ball, later gets away with taking a nickel, later a quarter, later a car. It's a complete lack of respect for others and of any sense of decency. I'm not talking about someone who has no clue what printer ink costs, and prints out an art book PDF on their friend's computer, or a seven year old that discovers a Barney Torrent; I mean reasonably accountable repeat offenders. People like that only understand a thing is wrong when the dog they kick bites them in the ass for it; and some not even then. And even better if you're smart and wait until they're on a sale like Steam or GOG.A wise choice too. Because, I don't know a single person in my life who doesn't download illegaly. None of my relatives, friends or colleagues watch Game of thrones on HBO. Even a friend of mine, who is a software developer doesn't think twice before downloading music, series, movies or games. None of the students at my university mind sharing PDF version of a book for free. So I find it really hard to believe. If people pirate, let them. There is nothing you can do to stop them. This simply means that you need to accept that the world is changing. Companies/artist have already accepted that by adapting to it (online gamplay modes/concerts). And you think that makes it correct behavior do you? Here we have so-called 'handicapped parking spaces'; parking in them is illegal unless you have a permit ~that you can get with a valid disability. People illegally park in them all the time and think nothing of it ~until they get caught and find out that the fine is 10x the penalty of mundane parking violations. People learn the lesson, and leave the spots open... So in that respect, it works. *Sadly, you do get disability fraud, and people rushing to renew their parking tag the day before their cast comes off. But on the whole it makes a dent in the callousness by taking a bite out of anyone idiot enough to so blatantly ignore the reserved parking for the disabled. Consider: The persons parking there illegally are taking what they want from people that probably can't do anything about it; it's not conceptually different from stealing from the blind, or even swimming in the neighbor's pool when they expressly prohibited it. You cannot justify anything as 'right' simply [only] because your friends all do it. People and corporations that dedicate their own time and their own capital to a commercial endeavor, do so to make a living (preferably a GOOD living), and it is not justifiable that random twits on the Internet should be able to benefit from their initiative and hard work without rightfully paying their asking price. The alternative is not to benefit from them until you can afford their product; there are plenty of artists, musicians, games, and software developers that gladly provide their work for free, and it's not wrong to take them up on it. It IS wrong when the owner of it says 'NO' ~even if they cannot catch you stealing it. Also what about Australia, games are a 100$ there, other software prices are also unproportionally higher, how would you explain that?Why should it need explained? If nobody paid it then they would lower the price if they wanted to sell it. ___ *Not paying their price means to ignore it ~not to steal it in some self righteous protest of the establishment. [This is not directed at anyone personally; it's just self evident.] Wanting a thing and not having it is not inherently wrong; wanting to sell it and getting robbed/ripped off by interested users is. ___ Edited June 6, 2014 by Gizmo
Hurlshort Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 Seems like a problem with the receiving end then, to be honest. Not sure what the reason for the argument is anyway, not like any of you are actually going to change your stance at all so. Well other than just being **** as usual. People change all the time. It's debatable how much influence a discussion on a forum may have on that, but having frank discussions on consumer/producer relationships and the value of ethics is hardly the same as speaking into a vacuum. Piracy is typically a young man's game, and again there are plenty of factors that play into most people giving up their pirating ways, but it's a bit overly skeptical to say these conversations have zero impact. 3
Meshugger Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 Should we even care about piracy? 10 years ago it was a big thing when the industry was caught pants down on that there were people offering the products faster, more reliable without DRM and for free, globally. Since then they have adapted with Netflix, Spotify, Steam and whatnot, only leaving the most hardcore ones that will never buy anything in any case. Also, haven't studies shown that people pretty much pirating when they start having a job? So what is the point again? 3 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
BruceVC Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 Should we even care about piracy? 10 years ago it was a big thing when the industry was caught pants down on that there were people offering the products faster, more reliable without DRM and for free, globally. Since then they have adapted with Netflix, Spotify, Steam and whatnot, only leaving the most hardcore ones that will never buy anything in any case. Also, haven't studies shown that people pretty much pirating when they start having a job? So what is the point again? I would say we should care about pirating purely on the principle. Even if you don't think it impacts the revenue stream of a company the real question you need to ask yourself is actually a simple one " what right do you have to play a game, without paying for it, that a company has spent months if not years developing? " "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Chilloutman Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 Should we even care about piracy? 10 years ago it was a big thing when the industry was caught pants down on that there were people offering the products faster, more reliable without DRM and for free, globally. Since then they have adapted with Netflix, Spotify, Steam and whatnot, only leaving the most hardcore ones that will never buy anything in any case. Also, haven't studies shown that people pretty much pirating when they start having a job? So what is the point again? I would say we should care about pirating purely on the principle. Even if you don't think it impacts the revenue stream of a company the real question you need to ask yourself is actually a simple one " what right do you have to play a game, without paying for it, that a company has spent months if not years developing? " Thats already answeard, once someone have enough cash they start buying it instead of pirating, actualy if I never start playing pirated games, I would probably not be here today backing up PoE I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
BruceVC Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 Should we even care about piracy? 10 years ago it was a big thing when the industry was caught pants down on that there were people offering the products faster, more reliable without DRM and for free, globally. Since then they have adapted with Netflix, Spotify, Steam and whatnot, only leaving the most hardcore ones that will never buy anything in any case. Also, haven't studies shown that people pretty much pirating when they start having a job? So what is the point again? I would say we should care about pirating purely on the principle. Even if you don't think it impacts the revenue stream of a company the real question you need to ask yourself is actually a simple one " what right do you have to play a game, without paying for it, that a company has spent months if not years developing? " Thats already answeard, once someone have enough cash they start buying it instead of pirating, actualy if I never start playing pirated games, I would probably not be here today backing up PoE Okay so just to be clear on this point, your response to my question would be " yes I have a right to pirate a game if I don't have the money to purchase it? " "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Agiel Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 I would say we should care about pirating purely on the principle. Even if you don't think it impacts the revenue stream of a company the real question you need to ask yourself is actually a simple one " what right do you have to play a game, without paying for it, that a company has spent months if not years developing? " ^ Don't know if you guys have noticed, but for a whole lot of the developers you know and love the livelihoods of the designers, artists, and engineers hang on a thread. Sure the lay-offs that happen once a AAA game is released is the result of poor and abusive business practices on the part of publishers*, but at least resolve to not add to the problem. *I have always held that the industry should not be so hasty to push the development of new tech (which is one of the biggest multipliers on the cost of development, before marketing, obv) until the costs of game development corresponds to a state in which the studios are nearly guaranteed to remain in financial good standing (if said studio had competent people in it). Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling
Sarex Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 ^ Don't know if you guys have noticed, but for a whole lot of the developers you know and love the livelihoods of the designers, artists, and engineers hang on a thread. Sure the lay-offs that happen once a AAA game is released is the result of poor and abusive business practices on the part of publishers*, but at least resolve to not add to the problem. *I have always held that the industry should not be so hasty to push the development of new tech (which is one of the biggest multipliers on the cost of development, before marketing, obv) until the costs of game development corresponds to a state in which the studios are nearly guaranteed to remain in financial good standing (if said studio had competent people in it). Pirated game =/= lost sales! "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP
Meshugger Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 Should we even care about piracy? 10 years ago it was a big thing when the industry was caught pants down on that there were people offering the products faster, more reliable without DRM and for free, globally. Since then they have adapted with Netflix, Spotify, Steam and whatnot, only leaving the most hardcore ones that will never buy anything in any case. Also, haven't studies shown that people pretty much pirating when they start having a job? So what is the point again? I would say we should care about pirating purely on the principle. Even if you don't think it impacts the revenue stream of a company the real question you need to ask yourself is actually a simple one " what right do you have to play a game, without paying for it, that a company has spent months if not years developing? " Pirates do not exactly sail through the seas of rights. The simply take what they want. I think the more interesting question is how to deal with it and why it is stupid to portray them as murders and rapists (in the eyes of the law). 2 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Malcador Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 People change all the time. It's debatable how much influence a discussion on a forum may have on that, but having frank discussions on consumer/producer relationships and the value of ethics is hardly the same as speaking into a vacuum. Piracy is typically a young man's game, and again there are plenty of factors that play into most people giving up their pirating ways, but it's a bit overly skeptical to say these conversations have zero impact. Well, when I meet someone who decides to stop working for Reloaded or downloading their stuff based on some Internet guy poo-poo'ing their choice I'll be properly amazed. This isn't the first time they'll hear this stuff, after all. When people do decide to stop doing it, I think it might just be things like buying it legitimately being easier and lower risk or desire to play with friends getting it legitimately rather than the growling they read online. Should we even care about piracy? 10 years ago it was a big thing when the industry was caught pants down on that there were people offering the products faster, more reliable without DRM and for free, globally. Since then they have adapted with Netflix, Spotify, Steam and whatnot, only leaving the most hardcore ones that will never buy anything in any case. Also, haven't studies shown that people pretty much pirating when they start having a job? So what is the point again? I don't, really, no skin off my nose and all my favourite publishers are pretty much dead anyway Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
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