Can we really play the whole game with just one character?

[Lephys]

 

burned at the steak.

Mmmmm. Steak.

 

Haha! That's one of my best typos yet. ^_^

 

But, yes, the length is a similar factor. I know everyone was talking about how The Darkness II was "only like 4 hours long." I picked it up anyway, and enjoyed it for a good 11-12 hours before beating it. I would honestly have to rush myself to complete it in 4 hours. And that's not anywhere close to speed-running times. I think the speedrun time was well under an hour. *shrug*...

 

Anywho... I just hope the challenge presented and quantity (gameplay duration) of content are both up to par. I have faith, though.

[forgottenlor]

^ I think the general expressed concern, forgottenlor, was for the general ability to get through the game solo without all that specific "metagame" knowledge. If you can find a way to get through the game with just one character, on Hard, in an hour, then awesome. If you just intuitively do that on your first playthrough without having to figure out a specific way? That's obviously indicative of an issue with the amount of challenge presented to a party of 6.

 

For some reason, people defensively replied that, no, people who are really good at video games and figure out how to play through them with just one person should not be burned at the steak.

Well on another thread someone was claiming to have made it through both Baldur's Gate I & II with a single character with no metagame knowledge and that it was a "cakewalk." If this is so its all fine and good for them, as I said I don't think I could do it nor would I bother attempting to, nor did it have any effect on how I enjoyed the games. Mr. Sawyer has already claimed the difficulty of POE will rest around that of the infinity engine games, so I'm putting my faith in his words for now.

[Regirs]

 

I believe what they are trying to say is that the game is designed for party play, but they're not going to stop you from trying to play with only one character if that's what floats your boat. It will probably be very difficult though.

 

Same as BG, IWD etc.

 

Yes.  The game doesn't structurally require you to take on additional party members to complete it.

 

On a related topic, I keep seeing people say there isn't healing and there aren't healing potions in PoE.  This isn't true.  There are no abilities or items that heal Health.  However, there are plenty of abilities and several items that heal Stamina.  Fighters have a slow Stamina regeneration effect during combat, spellcasters have a variety of Stamina recovery spells/powers, and there are consumables that can recover Stamina.  Health is the resource that only comes back with rest and rest always replenishes all Health.

 

 

Personaly I would prefer copy paste approach to mechanics from D&D 3/3.5  in PoE with some tweaks only ofc, solo summoning was challenging and loads of fun and if it was due to exploiting some mechanics so what? even better it's rather fun to discover small stuff like that (unless is totaly or mostly balance braking and can be only seen as bad game design then fair enough) that enables you to have a step up in a sense of achivement personaly i would porobably start plaing my FIRST game with 'heart of fury' like mode enabled and maybe solo character.

Watching gameplays of other folks play solo 'HoF' mode on You Tube would be fun as it was with some gameplays like that of Icewind Dale 2.

 

Btw kinna curious how much inspiration especialy of the visual part of the game developers derive from Temple of Elemental Evil that game was hands down best most up to date- 2D painted backgrounds with some animations and 3D models isometric view game  type ever created HA! I can even say it looked better than graphics of PoE as of yet! art style was amazing too! only thing that bugged me is that I prefered real time with active pause apprach so that it made gameplay slightly mehh(got same feeling with recently relesed Divinity Original Sin) in comaprison to Infinity engine games.

[Stun]

Btw kinna curious how much inspiration especialy of the visual part of the game developers derive from Temple of Elemental Evil that game was hands down best most up to date- 2D painted backgrounds with some animations and 3D models isometric view game  type ever created HA! I can even say it looked better than graphics of PoE as of yet! art style was amazing too! only thing that bugged me is that I prefered real time with active pause apprach so that it made gameplay slightly mehh(got same feeling with recently relesed Divinity Original Sin) in comaprison to Infinity engine games.

I sense quite a bit of ToEE influence in PoE...at least with the animations we've seen. From just watching the trailer I see the same running animations as ToEE. Also Ogres look and attack exactly as they did in TOEE.

 

This is a good thing. ToEE was both beautiful and visceral.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Stun

[DCParry]

Speaking of visceral and beautiful, I want to be able to play the game by slapping at the keyboard with a freshly caught halibut.

[Karkarov]

Speaking of visceral and beautiful, I want to be able to play the game by slapping at the keyboard with a freshly caught halibut.

No longer will we faceroll games, we will haliBUTT them.

[sb5]

I've tried to find out if there was a clear answer to the OP's question and stumbled through twelve pages of bull****, how I should do this and that or how something has to be tailored in a way so I explicitly cannot do this and that.

 

I've gathered this much:

There's no scripts that require a party of specific characters for the main plot (roughly according to dev post)

Level cap is twelve.

Late difficulty might be tailored to about six level twelve characters thus it might be a difficult task, but technically possible.

 

 

I very much prefer multiple possibilities to play a game. Like, how I've soloed and killed each and everyone but plot NPCs as a rule in Fallout 2.

[Karkarov]

I've tried to find out if there was a clear answer to the OP's question and stumbled through twelve pages of bull****, how I should do this and that or how something has to be tailored in a way so I explicitly cannot do this and that.

 

I've gathered this much:

There's no scripts that require a party of specific characters for the main plot (roughly according to dev post)

Level cap is twelve.

Late difficulty might be tailored to about six level twelve characters thus it might be a difficult task, but technically possible.

 

 

I very much prefer multiple possibilities to play a game. Like, how I've soloed and killed each and everyone but plot NPCs as a rule in Fallout 2.

Nothing forces you to take a party.  Obsidian when asked has always said the same thing though.  Would it be possible to solo the game?  Maybe, but we are not designing the game with it in mind and aren't going to test it.  Which means yes you can solo it, or no you cant depending on how you read the sentence.  Either way assuming you "can" solo the game it should be really really hard to do so.

[MReed]

Put another way:

 

Even with a godmode cheat, you can't solo NWN2 -- you are required to take along companions at certain points.  This won't happen in PoE -- if you use a cheat code to make your character invulnerable to damage, you'll be able to solo the game.

 

Then the discussion digressed into "Should Obsidian allow 'tactics' (such as kiting) that may make solo play more feasible, from a combat point of view?"

[sb5]

Thanks. Yeah discussions derail really fast with opinions and such.

 

I'm excited about what can be accomplished. There's many games of which I'd have thought it was impossible until someone just did it.

[Stun]

Put another way:

 

Even with a godmode cheat, you can't solo NWN2 -- you are required to take along companions at certain points.  This won't happen in PoE -- if you use a cheat code to make your character invulnerable to damage, you'll be able to solo the game.

A couple of points here: Josh's statement about soloing is exactly in line with how the IE games handled the issue, which is:

 

1)At no point does the game require or force any sort of party number requirement (ie. none of that NWN2 nonsense of forced party members for the plot's sake. -And- at no point does the game toss puzzles or problems that require 6 party members for resolution)

 

2) Soloing is viable without any cheat codes or kiting.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure the devs have said that XP rewards are shared, and again, that is right in line with how the IE games did it. Which means the smaller your party, the faster you'll be leveling.

 

I approve of all of this.

[Lephys]

I think the question brought up was based on the fact that 6X the EXP doesn't really help you if you can't make it through an encounter/objective.

 

Also, the IE games (or most of them, at least) had repeatable random encounter XP. It seems PoE will not have any.

 

So, it's a perfectly valid question of whether or not a single person will be able to make it far enough, on his own, for the increased XP gains from not-splitting XP between a whole party to make up for the fact that he's just one character who can't perform any ability/tactical combos whatsoever with himself.

 

Thus, the question was raised, maybe it'll be pretty much impossible to solo the game above a certain difficulty setting or something? It's a perfectly valid possibility.

[Stun]

Also, the IE games (or most of them, at least) had repeatable random encounter XP. It seems PoE will not have any.

That's true.

 

But since the only XP gain in PoE will be quest XP -and- many quests will be resolvable without combat, my gut is telling me that it may actually be somewhat easier to beat PoE without a full party than the IE games when it's all said and done, since the toughest part of soloing has always been combat.

 

But again, this is pure unadulterated speculation. We've been given virtually zero information about the nature of questing in PoE. It could very well be that many quest objectives become closed off/unsolvable for a soloer if he happens to not have the specific skill-set required for completion of those quests. And thus the soloer gains less XP over the course of a play through because he simply couldn't do as many quests.

 

And I'm OK with that. In fact, I expect it. It makes the game world more believable. An Arch-mage shouldn't be able to successfully complete a thieves guild questline, despite what games like Skyrim would have us believe.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Stun

[Hiro Protagonist II]

There was the PCgames.de preview  which suggested you could do some things different ways. Granted it was the starting dungeon but I wouldn't be surprised if some quests could be solved multiple ways including non-combat.

 

 

 

in a dungeon we also saw alternative routes through a level. In searching for an exit from the cave, we solve a riddle in which we must pass in the correct way over letters embedded in the ground - upon choosing the wrong order, one is struck by traps. [similar to the Shadow Dragon Dungeon in BG2]

 

Not resourceful enough to solve the riddle? No problem, a couple of corners further one finds a conspicious wall that looks as though one could easily break through it. If one is strong enough, the wall may be brought down. If not, one has hopefully ransacked a hammer and chisel from a previous room and may thus pass the obstancle. Alternatively, there is another, completely different route forward. Perhaps one can help the little Xaurip imp? To win his trust, one only has to bring him a piece of flesh. Is the search too strenuous? Then one may, of course, simply attack him!

 

 

 

We'll have to see if soloing is easier or harder than some of us imagine. I'd have to agree Stun that my gut feeling is it may be easier if there are non-combat solutions to quests.

[Lephys]

Yeah, good points. It's not that I want it to be strictly impossible or anything. It just may vary well be ultra tricky. Or, at the very least, it may just be that you're much more limited in what all you're able to do (big scary optional fights, certain skillset options, like you said, that may unlock other content, etc.).

 

And yeah, this is a lot of speculation, but if we didn't discuss anything that required speculation while we wait for further project progress, this would be a quiet, place, riddled with tumbleweeds.

 

Anywho, as for the objective XP thing, it's true that we don't really have info on what kind of ratios we're looking at here (combat-requiring XP versus non-combat option XP). They haven't really told us any kind of estimate on the amount of combats we'll be able to "circumvent" while still receiving XP (not from the combat, but for the situation that could've been "solved" with combat). In fact, a few times, when people have asked about that (usually it's questions about pacifist runs), they've stressed (albeit vaguely) that it will not at all be possible to do a pacifist run, and something along the lines of "combat is very much a huge part of this game."

 

So *shrug*. They've sort of told us there's a border to the east and the west, but we still don't have a map showing us the land in between. 8P

[mur'phon]

Stun: I agree with you to a point, a single character should level faster, and with the right stats/skills could be able to complete several quests without combat, thus making it easier. However, the level cap is 12, and assuming an entire party of six can reach it, the game could become hellishly difficult for a soloer over time.

[Stun]

I doubt that. Sawyer said that difficulty wise, PoE will be easier than IWD2. Well? Icewind Dale 2 was not hellishly difficult to Solo. None of the IE games were. In fact, the BG games were actually easier to solo than they were to full party. And BG1's level cap was cripplingly low (level 8/9)

 

But we don't need to cite the IE games. Josh Sawyer has already told us that Soloing will be doable in PoE and that they didn't even balance the game it to require a full party.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Stun

[Namutree]

I doubt that. Sawyer said that difficulty wise, PoE will be easier than IWD2. Well? Icewind Dale 2 was not hellishly difficult to Solo. None of the IE games were. In fact, the BG games were actually easier to solo than they were to full party. And BG1's level cap was cripplingly low (level 8/9)

 

But we don't need to cite the IE games. Josh Sawyer has already told us that Soloing will be doable in PoE and that they didn't even balance the game it to require a full party.

I have a feeling that poe will be designed to require more teamwork than the IE games, and when Josh said it would be easier than IWD2; he probably had full teams in mind. Soloing in the old IE games usually involved either making an incredibly powerful character; which will almost certainly not be possible in the more balanced poe, or involved game exploits which likely won't be as common in poe as they were in the IE games.

 

I'm betting soloing will be possible, but MUCH harder.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Namutree

[Klixen]

Oh I really, really hope this is possible! Because I would so much rather control just one character than a whole party (but that's just my personal preference). I'm sure playing solo will make the game much harder, but as the game is going to support mods, surely the difficulty can be tweaked a little bit to make it more solo friendly *fingers crossed*.

[PrimeJunta]

I'd expect the built-in difficulty settings are enough to get it to be enjoyable soloable even if you're not as hardcore as Stun.

[Karkarov]

I doubt that. Sawyer said that difficulty wise, PoE will be easier than IWD2. Well? Icewind Dale 2 was not hellishly difficult to Solo. None of the IE games were. In fact, the BG games were actually easier to solo than they were to full party. And BG1's level cap was cripplingly low (level 8/9)

 

But we don't need to cite the IE games. Josh Sawyer has already told us that Soloing will be doable in PoE and that they didn't even balance the game it to require a full party.

A few things.

 

1: It was easy to solo due to the D&D rules system being very easy to manipulate to become OP, that and lots of bugs+exploits. 

2: Eternity doesn't use the D&D rules system... maybe not as easy to manipulate and become OP, and we don't know what bugs+exploits will exist (hopefully none).

3: No he did not say that, he said that they were not forcing you to use a team and you could try to solo the game if you wanted but they were not designing the game with solo in mind at all.  He much later even said no one in the office has even attempted a solo run.

[Stun]

3: No he did not say that,

You are mistaken.

 

He said this:

 

While I have Josh attention, I'll sneakily wedge in a question of mine in another thread 4 days ago: How much thought and testing has gone into soloing PE. Is it even advisable? Sooner or later, I'm sure gonna try it.

We absolutely allow people to try it and we will probably not put much effort into balancing it. We do not design anything with the assumption you will have additional party members.

 

^they're not balancing the game under the assumption that you've got a full party.

 

Edit: Hell, why did I even waste time doing a forum search? Sawyer said this on page 1 of this thread:

Yes. The game doesn't structurally require you to take on additional party members to complete it.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Stun

[Silent Winter]

We absolutely allow people to try it and we will probably not put much effort into balancing it. We do not design anything with the assumption you will have additional party members.

 

^they're not balancing the game under the assumption that you've got a full party.

 

Edit: Hell, why did I even waste time doing a forum search? Sawyer said this on page 1 of this thread:

Yes. The game doesn't structurally require you to take on additional party members to complete it.

 

^That's not the same as saying it won't be 'balanced' around a party - just that mechanically it won't require you to take party members (so, for example, they're not designing a puzzle with the assumption that you have 6 people to stand one on each square).

At least, that's how I read it.

 

This word 'balanced' (to me) means 'optimum challenge for enjoyment', not necessarily 'most difficult challenge'.  So while it'll probably be balanced around a full party, it may get easier/more difficult with different numbers (e.g. 4 may be easier, 3 may be harder, depending on tactics and composition).

I doubt soloing will be impossible - someone, somewhere will figure out some tactics to do it.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Silent Winter

[Karkarov]

^That's not the same as saying it won't be 'balanced' around a party - just that mechanically it won't require you to take party members (so, for example, they're not designing a puzzle with the assumption that you have 6 people to stand one on each square).

At least, that's how I read it.

Exactly.  We already knew they were not going to prevent you from attempting to solo, so obviously they are not designing game elements like traps or puzzles assuming you have more than one character, because maybe you don't.  That being said, the combat gameplay itself is being designed around the idea that you aren't alone and do have a party.  Because if they don't design combat itself assuming you have a party than anyone who does have one will basically steam roll the game.

[Stun]

Exactly.  We already knew they were not going to prevent you from attempting to solo, so obviously they are not designing game elements like traps or puzzles assuming you have more than one character, because maybe you don't.  That being said, the combat gameplay itself is being designed around the idea that you aren't alone and do have a party.

In other words, it's exactly like the IE games, which were also balanced around party play. Since they were, you know, party based games.

 

Because if they don't design combat itself assuming you have a party than anyone who does have one will basically steam roll the game

Not really. Playing with a party of 3 in the IE games was actually much easier than playing with a party of 6. Mainly because XP was shared (as it will be in PoE, btw), which means the smaller your party was, the faster you leveled. And if you soloed, you leveled... 6 times faster.

 

 

Wait, isn't that what I've been saying since about page 3?

Edited July 24, 2014 by Stun