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Can we really play the whole game with just one character?


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I feel like you're close to a breakthrough! Dry those eyes and get back on the horse buckaroo. :yes:

 

that exact response proves my point.

 

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Having a single strategy (kiting) that is ~100% effective at preventing meelers from doing their thing is degenerative game play -- it renders melee oriented classes irrelevant for both the party and the enemy.

Oh, I wouldn't go that far. Taken to the absolute extreme, Kiting can probably succeed in rendering one lone PoE game play mechanic irrelevant: Forced engagement. And nothing more. But as anyone who's ever played a class based RPG will tell you, forced engagement is Hardly the sole function of a melee class, is it? Or at least it better not be, because if it is then playing a fighter in PoE will be brain-numbingly DULL. melee-oriented classes should be designed to.... Fight. And that means dealing with the entire spectrum of enemy tactics, including stalking mobile targets, as well as BEING mobile attackers themselves if they have to. But I understand. There are developer-defined Class roles that can't be deviated from. Thus your Tank can't be a fighter jet.

 

If anything, you should be complaining about the overpowered nature of the engagement mechanic, and how it seems to be designed to make ranged Fighter builds worthless.

 

 

My objection to the mechanics being discusses is not that it eliminates kiting (which I think it probably do quite well), but my belief that the monster's AI will be totally incapable of dealing with it in a vaguely intelligent way.

I wouldn't be too worried about that either. Simple, unimaginative encounter design solves that issue. If the Devs want a specific encounter to be really tough, they'll simply give the enemy an innate disengage mechanic, like the one Rogues, rangers and mages get. If they want an encounter to be simple, they'll just put your party up against a bunch of lumbering fighter-types who can do nothing but stand in one place and wail away at whatever is in front of them Edited by Stun
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I feel like you're close to a breakthrough! Dry those eyes and get back on the horse buckaroo. :yes:

 

that exact response proves my point.

 

 

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that exact response proves my point.

Edited by Gfted1
Video removed. Thats twice Ive let it slide. Once more and you will have your account placed on moderation. :)
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Awww. This has become too personal. Every scuffle can be resolved with a bit of hugging and cuddling.

 

PrimeJunta needs a hug too, for I believe he'd rather hug and cuddle than struggle with his other, forum related, urges.  :teehee:

 

Let's all hug!

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I know it's a slow day at the Codex, but have you finished reading the RPG Codex Top 70 PC RPGs (Now with User Reviews!)?  You being an elite Codexian and all, I would think your time would be better spent engaging in that discussion.

 

As Valorian said, hugs for everyone!  :biggrin:

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There was no video in that post Gfted, you imbecile. Your attention to detail could use some sharpening before you completely embarrass yourself again as per this thread: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64949-can-i-even-handle-a-game-like-pe-any-longer-well-i-sure-hope-so/

Edited by Sensuki
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I know it's a slow day at the Codex, but have you finished reading the RPG Codex Top 70 PC RPGs (Now with User Reviews!)?  You being an elite Codexian and all, I would think your time would be better spent engaging in that discussion.

 

 

Who is an elite Codexian? Sensuki? I've heard that's a fabulous and inspiring place. I believe I've read somewhere that they're mad at David Gaider and David Gaider is very mad at them in return. Yes, it seems that D.G. has become a video game celebrity for romance content, sort of.

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I know it's a slow day at the Codex, but have you finished reading the RPG Codex Top 70 PC RPGs (Now with User Reviews!)?  You being an elite Codexian and all, I would think your time would be better spent engaging in that discussion.

 

 

Who is an elite Codexian? Sensuki? I've heard that's a fabulous and inspiring place. I believe I've read somewhere that they're mad at David Gaider and David Gaider is very mad at them in return. Yes, it seems that D.G. has become a video game celebrity for romance content, sort of.

 

 

Sarcasm is such a difficult thing for me to capture on the internet.  :)

 

Yes, a request has been made on Site Feedback for a very special smiley of D.G. riding a unicorn (although the horn has been replaced by something much more Codexian).

 

This thread has been derailed enough so I'll move along. 

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You're right, sarcasm or not, this topic is not about D.G., elite Codexians and riding unicorns. It's time to move on, so sayeth the like button populus.

 

So... solo vs party. Or 3 wizards vs 6 wizards. They all cast wail of banshee at the same time.  :nuke:

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Kiting as a gameplay strategy isn't something new in video games. The term just became popular in MMOs and was tactical strategy gameplay well before MMOs. Even back in the 70s and 80s. I see people say this or that isn't tactical gameplay and degenerative. I'm just waiting for the next tactical strategy is deemed degenerative by some gamers. Perhaps a list of what is degenerative so gamers can add this to their list.

Edited by Hiro Protagonist II
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Maybe each class will have a "disengage" ability linked to a cooldown? I mean, once a cloth wearer / caster becomes "engaged" by a few mooks its good night Gracie. They must either melee or suffer spell interruption or AoO. A Blink type spell would be cool for Mages. Teleport you a few yards away, maybe drop a simulacrum in the place you were? And kiting is fair game in my book. Why a ranged class would stand in place and eat melee blows makes no sense to me. Of course a mage would try to maneuver away from melee attackers.

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Well, I think fighters already have a "disengage" ability. I believe it's called "knockdown". Obviously it's not the fancy-schmancy "switch-places" thing that rogues and rangers get, but I can't see a fighter being unable to safely disengage from someone who's lying on the ground.

Edited by Stun
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I'm not usually one that bothers go on forums, but in this case, I'll make an exception. The reason is I've been looking forward to Pillars of Eternity since it was first announced, and I was really looking forward to going back to an old-school Infinity Engine-game again. With a new engine, but still. However, recently a friend told me about an interview with Obsidian, where it was said the game can be finished with just one character, as each class has skills to make the rest of the classes not quite as necessary. So a fighter can heal, and stuff like that.

 

The question is: Is this true? I really, really hope not. The main reason why I loved Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Greyhawk; Temple of Elemental Evil and so on was because a group was essential. Not one class could solo the game on its own. To me, and just about everyone I've talked to, that's the core of games like this. And with PoE being old-school and all that, how can it ignore the whole core of the genre? If we can finish the game with just one class, we're left with a dialogue-heavy Diablo. No one wants that. I hope.

 

I think it's more like the game gives you the OPTION to play solo if you want it. If you don't want it, you can very well build your character and party members to keep their skills within their traditional class lines (fighters as offensive tanks, clerics as healers, rogues as skill monkeys, etc.) and play the way you enjoyed with old school games.

 

If you like having to rely on a team where everyone has their own function specific to their class, you are more than welcome to play that way. I don't fully understand though why you feel so personally bummed out just because other players have the option to play differently. Not everyone is forced to play the way you like to play, therefore the game is ruined for you?

Edited by Faerunner

"Not I, though. Not I," said the hanging dwarf.

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Maybe each class will have a "disengage" ability linked to a cooldown? I mean, once a cloth wearer / caster becomes "engaged" by a few mooks its good night Gracie. They must either melee or suffer spell interruption or AoO. A Blink type spell would be cool for Mages. Teleport you a few yards away, maybe drop a simulacrum in the place you were? And kiting is fair game in my book. Why a ranged class would stand in place and eat melee blows makes no sense to me. Of course a mage would try to maneuver away from melee attackers.

It is possible, but I wouldn't count on it. Mage should be vulnerable to melee, he might be able to postpone his fate with some ability, allowing the rest of party to interdict, but overall if he ends up eating blows is because the you ****ed up controlling the situation. The name of the game is tactics, your party composition/positioning(area control) and correct use of its abilities seems as important as BG mage spell prep work, IMO.

 

An example from the top of my head, a rogue will be a great help against units that manged to evade your "front line" formation. A mage might be week melee, but he is enough to allow a flanking rouge to sneak attack the hell out of his attacker.

---

on unrelated note, I wonder if there would be couple of "stealth" missions i.e. missions that could be completed with stealth only and thus might be beneficial to only bring one high stealth character.

Edited by Mor
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---

on unrelated note, I wonder if there would be couple of "stealth" missions i.e. missions that could be completed with stealth only and thus might be beneficial to only bring one high stealth character.

I'm both expecting, and looking forward to quests like that. In the Stronghold update it was hinted that there will be such quests. Or at least that's how I interpreted the following:

 

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64350-update-63-stronghold/

 

As mentioned above, your idle companions can take part in adventures as those events arise. You will be informed of what adventures are available, how long they will last, and what the rewards will be (in general terms). If you send a companion on an adventure, he or she is unavailable until they complete it and return with the rewards. You can recall any companions early, but then they earn nothing. Why would you ever want to recall them then? Because your stronghold can get attacked!

^ I can totally see a 'stealth mission' job posting at your stronghold, and you being able to send your Rogue on it. Of course it would be really cool to also have full blown stealth quests that you can actually take part in as well. The IE games sorely lacked quests like that (BG1 tried it, but the 2 or 3 it had were so short and meaningless that they really don't count) Edited by Stun
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And kiting is fair game in my book. Why a ranged class would stand in place and eat melee blows makes no sense to me. Of course a mage would try to maneuver away from melee attackers.

The key word there being "try."

 

"Kiting" isn't "trying not to get hit while killing the thing that's coming after you." It's effectively doing so, because video game silliness.

 

In real life, no one kites anything. You either lure it and kill it in one go, or you take it on. You don't outrun it, WHILE shooting it in the face with lots of arrows, for an extended duration. And if you're not doing it for an extended duration, it's just called a ranged attack, not "kiting." It's literally a metaphor for keeping the foe at a distance for a while, as one flies a kite.

 

That's why people have a problem with kiting, FWIW. It's not "No, you shouldn't ever be able to get away and attack from a range." It's that you shouldn't be able to have the foe trail around behind you while you slowly murder it to death, effectively without ever having to deal with it in melee range.

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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In real life, no one kites anything. You either lure it and kill it in one go, or you take it on. You don't outrun it, WHILE shooting it in the face with lots of arrows, for an extended duration.

Oh, I don't know about that. I see Kiting as sorta like how some Boxers fight in the ring in real life. The old expression "stick-and-move" comes to mind - Where you fire off a jab or a quick combination, then...you back-pedal away...and as the opponent follows you around the ring, you jab and move again...etc.

 

Ultimately it's a rather boring way to fight (and some would say cowardly), but whether it's exciting, boring, cowardly or silly is not a commentary on whether it's a legitimate tactic. It IS legitimate, and the fact that many great RPGs even give you tools/skills to make your kiting more effective is just further proof.

Edited by Stun
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