Ongoing discussion of Ukraine

[Orogun01]

 

Yup, while walking around tulips (wearing clomps!) and seeing mills everywhere.

 

Since that's not a stereotype at all...

 

Exactly and you guys like to put your fingers in dykes for fun  to stop water flooding your flat land right ?

 

I thought that was Denmark.

[HoonDing]

No, Denmark has dykes made from lego. Completely water proof.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Yup, while walking around tulips (wearing clomps!) and seeing mills everywhere.

 

Since that's not a stereotype at all...

 

Exactly and you guys like to put your fingers in dykes for fun  to stop water flooding your flat land right ?

 

I thought that was Denmark.

 

 

Maybe Denmark as well but I don't think so...does Denmark have dykes?

 

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/l/little_dutch_boy.html

[Mor]

So it's a "My country can beat your country" thread. Kinda loses it's appeal when there are no superheroes involved, anyone minds if we pretend that we live in the Marvel universe?

At this point, it is pretty much so. The last argument that I recall being "really" on topic was when Zoraptor failed to connect the current Crimean events to post soviet movements, arguing in favor of the provided referendum format. Other than that it has been a long ride of deflections from superficial similarities concerning other conflicts, to any number of tangent topic that conveniently allowed to avoid any criticism of Russia actions by feeding the Russia vs West/US paradigm so they can argue ideologies or policies, which catered to our Westren posters who aren't to happy with USA with their rants and conspiracy stuff, instead of posting in a relevant thread (btw Sarex I am still waiting to hear on why that banking scheme doesn't effect Russia)

 

Overall this whole thing is really about "democracy". Like with china we all know about the situation of Democracy, human rights and various freedoms there but every discussion about change should be started with the understanding of its size and population (~1.4 Billion) etc.. IMHO for china any real change will be disaster. Same goes with Russia, it is not NATO that spooked Putin, it is democracy knocking on its doors, Putin wants a buffer between him and those ideas such as open society and independent mass media where opposing view can't be stumped out. So while the propaganda media coverage of Ukrainian events was outrageous, but overall the goal wasn't challenging the legitimacy of Ukrainian government which wasn't susceptible to "mother Russia" pressure and buried the fact that it was revolution against corrupted and criminal system of state relations(like in Russia) with Nazis scare crows. The goal was mostly about attacking the "western democratic/financial experiment", in order to suppress any positive sentiments toward its own opposition (on top of the usual things like mock trials of prominent political dissidents). Overall all those wars serve to bolster Putin's approval ratings, providing a distraction from his failure to turn the country into a modern state. Queen Catherine once said that she had no way to defend her borders but to extend them, ~similar thing might be said about Putin's effort starting with Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine (more Ukraine to come soon? linking it with Moldova\transnistria) and OBy promised something about Azerbaijan..

 

Anyway you know the saying that there are three things we don't get tired of watching: Running water, burning fire and other people working. My adaptation is that there are three things we don't get tired of arguing about: Government, taxes and trying to prove we are right?

Edited April 23, 2014 by Mor

[BruceVC]

 

So it's a "My country can beat your country" thread. Kinda loses it's appeal when there are no superheroes involved, anyone minds if we pretend that we live in the Marvel universe?

At this point, it is pretty much so. The last argument that I recall being "really" on topic was when Zoraptor failed to connect the current Crimean events to post soviet movements, arguing in favor of the provided referendum format. Other than that it has been a long ride of deflections from superficial similarities concerning other conflicts, to any number of tangent topic that conveniently allowed to avoid any criticism of Russia actions by feeding the Russia vs West/US paradigm so they can argue ideologies or policies, which catered to our Westren posters who aren't to happy with USA with their rants and conspiracy stuff, instead of posting in a relevant thread (btw Sarex I am still waiting to hear on why that banking scheme doesn't effect Russia)

 

Overall this whole thing is really about "democracy". Like with china we all know about the situation of Democracy, human rights and various freedoms there but every discussion about change should be started with the understanding of its size and population (~1.4 Billion) etc.. IMHO for china any real change will be disaster. Same goes with Russia, it is not NATO that spooked Putin, it is democracy knocking on its doors, Putin wants a buffer between him and those ideas such as open society and independent mass media where opposing view can't be stumped out. So while the propaganda media coverage of Ukrainian events was outrageous, but overall the goal wasn't challenging the legitimacy of Ukrainian government which wasn't susceptible to "mother Russia" pressure and buried the fact that it was revolution against corrupted and criminal system of state relations(like in Russia) with Nazis scare crows. The goal was mostly about attacking the "western democratic/financial experiment", in order to suppress any positive sentiments toward its own opposition (on top of the usual things like mock trials of prominent political dissidents). Overall all those wars serve to bolster Putin's approval ratings, providing a distraction from his failure to turn the country into a modern state. Queen Catherine once said that she had no way to defend her borders but to extend them, ~similar thing might be said about Putin's effort starting with Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine (more Ukraine to come soon? linking it with Moldova\transnistria) and OBy promised something about Azerbaijan..

 

Anyway you know the saying that there are three things we don't get tired of watching: Running water, burning fire and other people working. My adaptation is that there are three things we don't get tired of arguing about: Government, taxes and trying to prove we are right?

 

 

That's a good post Mor, I hope the boys take the time to read and absorb it

[Malcador]

Nah Mor can't be oby as I suspected. Oby doesn't act all that petulant.  Not too sure what the constant harping on 'deflections' is about, really, it's not as if any serious outcome is going to come of posting on here.  And it's good comedy watching this, like in '03 with Iraq.

[BruceVC]

Nah Mor can't be oby as I suspected. Oby doesn't act all that petulant.  Not too sure what the constant harping on 'deflections' is about, really, it's not as if any serious outcome is going to come of posting on here.  And it's good comedy watching this, like in '03 with Iraq.

 

You can't be serious????

 

Did you really think Oby was Mor?

[Malcador]

No, that was the joke based on his past vehemence in a completely useless in context place, really.  Still am not seeing anyone lusting for Russia to take half of the country and/or arguing for it to happen.  Was some arguing the Crimea case had some merit.

 

Wonder what they have against that Vice reporter, heh, they let others go but him.

[ShadySands]

We are all Oby

 

...and also one of Cant's alts

[Zoraptor]

Nah Mor can't be oby as I suspected. Oby doesn't act all that petulant.  Not too sure what the constant harping on 'deflections' is about, really, it's not as if any serious outcome is going to come of posting on here.  And it's good comedy watching this, like in '03 with Iraq.

 

Bruce is far more likely to be Oby than Mor is, since the shtick is pretty much the same- find topic(s) that generate butthurt and that people cannot resist, then try replacing the haemorrhoid cream with linament*.

 

"Deflections" is just shoving anything that challenges one's set beliefs no matter what into a nice big safe box with a big "irrelevant" label on it, then burying it. Far easier than reading or trying to understand, no need to consider than you're wrong or that your side may not be squeaky clean and you can keep repeating things as if they haven't been rebutted multiple times with a renewed sense of moral superiority for being on the side of right.

 

*And it looks like I generated some butthurt without trolling once :smug:

[Orogun01]

At this point, it is pretty much so. The last argument that I recall being "really" on topic was when Zoraptor failed to connect the current Crimean events to post soviet movements, arguing in favor of the provided referendum format. Other than that it has been a long ride of deflections from superficial similarities concerning other conflicts, to any number of tangent topic that conveniently allowed to avoid any criticism of Russia actions by feeding the Russia vs West/US paradigm so they can argue ideologies or policies, which catered to our Westren posters who aren't to happy with USA with their rants and conspiracy stuff, instead of posting in a relevant thread (btw Sarex I am still waiting to hear on why that banking scheme doesn't effect Russia)

 

Overall this whole thing is really about "democracy". Like with china we all know about the situation of Democracy, human rights and various freedoms there but every discussion about change should be started with the understanding of its size and population (~1.4 Billion) etc.. IMHO for china any real change will be disaster. Same goes with Russia, it is not NATO that spooked Putin, it is democracy knocking on its doors, Putin wants a buffer between him and those ideas such as open society and independent mass media where opposing view can't be stumped out. So while the propaganda media coverage of Ukrainian events was outrageous, but overall the goal wasn't challenging the legitimacy of Ukrainian government which wasn't susceptible to "mother Russia" pressure and buried the fact that it was revolution against corrupted and criminal system of state relations(like in Russia) with Nazis scare crows. The goal was mostly about attacking the "western democratic/financial experiment", in order to suppress any positive sentiments toward its own opposition (on top of the usual things like mock trials of prominent political dissidents). Overall all those wars serve to bolster Putin's approval ratings, providing a distraction from his failure to turn the country into a modern state. Queen Catherine once said that she had no way to defend her borders but to extend them, ~similar thing might be said about Putin's effort starting with Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine (more Ukraine to come soon? linking it with Moldova\transnistria) and OBy promised something about Azerbaijan..

 

Anyway you know the saying that there are three things we don't get tired of watching: Running water, burning fire and other people working. My adaptation is that there are three things we don't get tired of arguing about: Government, taxes and trying to prove we are right?

Funny how we always seem to want to bring democracy to countries rich in oil. It seems we go into third world countries, set up a bunch of UN troops (turn a blind eye to their crimes) and respect their autonomy unless they have oil. Then its democracy time (wish we had some oil in the US then we could get our democracy back).

 

At any rate people in glass houses, don't look at the straw in your brother's eye, ect ,ect....

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So it's a "My country can beat your country" thread. Kinda loses it's appeal when there are no superheroes involved, anyone minds if we pretend that we live in the Marvel universe?

Sure.

 

Captain America can beat the **** out of that Canadian **** Wolverine.

[JadedWolf]

 

So it's a "My country can beat your country" thread. Kinda loses it's appeal when there are no superheroes involved, anyone minds if we pretend that we live in the Marvel universe?

Sure.

 

Captain America can beat the **** out of that Canadian **** Wolverine.

 

 

Already been done to death.

 

http://hero-envy.blogspot.nl/2013/02/captain-america-vs-wolverine.html

[Sarex]

Already been done to death.

 

http://hero-envy.blogspot.nl/2013/02/captain-america-vs-wolverine.html

 

Wasn't wolverine healed from a single cell, how can you beat that?

 

Now the real question is who would win in a Rune King Thor vs. Golden Years (Pre-Crisis) Superman{or Superman Prime if you think it's the stronger iteration}.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Sarex

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'd say King Thor, because while Superman Prime has the edge in physical strength, King Thor has magic armor and weapons.

 

How about Bane vs Green Goblin?

[Orogun01]

I'd say King Thor, because while Superman Prime has the edge in physical strength, King Thor has magic armor and weapons.

 

How about Bane vs Green Goblin?

Bane is said to have a genius IQ but Goblin has flight and bombs on his side. I could easily see this going either way but I'm giving the edge to the goblin since he's got better toys.

Plus if we're talking Norman Osborn we might as well go with him in full Iron Patriot costume.

 

Now who would win in a battle Tony Stark or Batman?(hint: it's whoever is richest)

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Norman Osborn is the only Green Goblin who matters.

 

Tony Stark. Batman would try to counter the armor with a batarang and fail.

 

Wilson Fisk or Black Mask?

[Orogun01]

Norman Osborn is the only Green Goblin who matters.

 

Tony Stark. Batman would try to counter the armor with a batarang and fail.

 

Wilson Fisk or Black Mask?

Come on, Fisk. That's not even a challenge.

 

Aquaman or Namor?

[Oerwinde]

Namor. They're pretty evenly matched, but Namor wouldn't hold back.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Namor.

 

Captain Atom or Sentry?

[Mor]

 

...

Funny how we always seem to want to bring democracy to countries rich in oil. It seems we go into third world countries, set up a bunch of UN troops (turn a blind eye to their crimes) and respect their autonomy unless they have oil. Then its democracy time (wish we had some oil in the US then we could get our democracy back).

 

At any rate people in glass houses, don't look at the straw in your brother's eye, ect ,ect....

 

Are you trolling due to my comment on deflections? otherwise I have no idea how your "retort" about interventions has anything todo with my analyse of Putin actions and Russia Political situation ...

 

And for the future, please be more specific with your "revelation". I am not certain if you are surprised that we can't solve all worlds problems(let alone our own) and that most things comes with price tag(even the white horse); want to argue for underlying resource war(IMO the modern wars thread is a better fit for it), but I have been very outspoken against the bestowing of democracy notably as it was pushed during the Arab spring, so lets make sure you are throwing stones at the right window.

 

 

 

"Deflections" is just shoving anything that challenges one's set beliefs no matter what into a nice big safe box with a big "irrelevant" label on it, then burying it. Far easier than reading or trying to understand, no need to consider than you're wrong or that your side may not be squeaky clean

Like before with confirmation bias, it is a nice misrepresentation. No one suggested that "our side" anywhere close to squeaky clean (at least some of us here have argued against certain NATO\USA actions\polices before) what has been suggested that keeping things in perspective and marginally on topic might be prudent (e.g. not every discussion about corruption in some third world country should revolve into finger pointing at the USA) In fact the very first thing I tried to impress upon you that there is no "our side" here, no one wants to get Russia, we would all benefit from cooperation. The concern is that Putin's actions seem to radicalize Russia, further polarizing the geopolitical map and rebuilding old walls/animosities (some suggest that they lack long term planing as well). So yes arguments over definition of who is a major power, who will win an all out war and any other tangent of a tangent that started with whether economical pressure over Russia will be effective(still catching up on most of the last thread) seem off topic-ish and irrelevant to me, though not deflections per se. Edited April 24, 2014 by Mor

[Orogun01]

Namor.

 

Captain Atom or Sentry?

Sentry, he could regenerate from being disintegrated and was only killed because of plot device. 

The Sentry and Captain Atom vs Dr. Manhattan. 

[Rostere]

I leave the discussion for a few days and when I'm back you're discussing superhero showdowns?

 

Not even fighter jet dogfights, or tanks, or submarines... I am disappointed

[Hassat Hunter]

Reading news today... "America is going to put more sanctions on Russia if the violence in Ukrain doesn't die down... the treaty made on Thursday to have no more threats..."

Oh, I love some good old irony in the morning to wake up.

 

But really, all I hear is the US making threats, and Russia doing... well, nothing. Who seems warmongering now.

They somehow expect Russia to fix Ukrain? How? Without taking it all over? It's like Russia asking the US to fix Mexico right now... is it reasonable? Hell no. So why do they keep asking? And why don't they try to keep their own dogs on a leash in Kiev?

Seriously, people... what exactly are they expecting to happen? That things go over peacefully like Kiev... oh, wait...

[JadedWolf]

Reading news today... "America is going to put more sanctions on Russia if the violence in Ukrain doesn't die down... the treaty made on Thursday to have no more threats..."

Oh, I love some good old irony in the morning to wake up.

 

But really, all I hear is the US making threats, and Russia doing... well, nothing. Who seems warmongering now.

They somehow expect Russia to fix Ukrain? How? Without taking it all over? It's like Russia asking the US to fix Mexico right now... is it reasonable? Hell no. So why do they keep asking? And why don't they try to keep their own dogs on a leash in Kiev?

Seriously, people... what exactly are they expecting to happen? That things go over peacefully like Kiev... oh, wait...

 

Stay on topic. We're talking about superheroes here.