Ongoing discussion of Ukraine

[213374U]

most people that have right to vote haven't been taught in school how system works same way as they are taught how their country's own elections work.

 

You mean young people in Finland are taught how elections really work in school? I'm genuinely impressed. Do you also get basic legal and fiscal education?

 

And, by the way, there is no popular legislative initiative at the EU level, or EU-wide referenda. So no participating, at all.

[Elerond]

 

most people that have right to vote haven't been taught in school how system works same way as they are taught how their country's own elections work.

 

You mean young people in Finland are taught how elections really work in school? I'm genuinely impressed. Do you also get basic legal and fiscal education?

 

And, by the way, there is no popular legislative initiative at the EU level, or EU-wide referenda. So no participating, at all.

 

 

Yes we have nationwide curriculum that includes civics (In Finnish Yhteiskuntaoppi) classes that needs to give information how our elections work, what every governmental institutions do and how they work with each other, these same classes also include basics legal and fiscal  education.

[HoonDing]

We don't get taught any of that. Our own politicians don't even know how the system works.

[BruceVC]

 

 

most people that have right to vote haven't been taught in school how system works same way as they are taught how their country's own elections work.

 

You mean young people in Finland are taught how elections really work in school? I'm genuinely impressed. Do you also get basic legal and fiscal education?

 

And, by the way, there is no popular legislative initiative at the EU level, or EU-wide referenda. So no participating, at all.

 

 

Yes we have nationwide curriculum that includes civics (In Finnish Yhteiskuntaoppi) classes that needs to give information how our elections work, what every governmental institutions do and how they work with each other, these same classes also include basics legal and fiscal  education.

 

 

That makes loads of sense, very prudent

 

I wish our schools taught those types of soft skills

[obyknven]

Meanwhile in Crimea

"Horrors of Russian occupation" - photos from Instagram

http://allyalta.tumblr.com/

Poor people! They lose so good opportunity be massacred by Ukrainian army live in democratic country.

[obyknven]

Euraisan Union has been created.

 http://en.ria.ru/world/20140529/190214111/Kazakhstans-Nazarbayev-Says-Eurasian-Union-Treaty-to-Meet-All.html

 

 

 

[Tagaziel]

That makes loads of sense, very prudent

 

I wish our schools taught those types of soft skills

Society should also promote civic self-education and participation. There's only so much that the school can teach and in no instance can it replace responsible parenting.

 

In other news, the Polish priest kidnapped by separatists and threatened with death (hanging, shooting) or mutilation (hands) has been released. Today they kidnapped four OECD observers instead.

 

There're also reports of civilians used as living shields (separatists hide among the population) and false flag attacks on the civilian population. Of course, they've also blocked the presidential elections.

 

in b4 JUNTAJUNTAJUNTAAAAAA

[Walsingham]

Incidentally, you fellahs picked up on the fact that the actual right wing parties in the Ukraine election picked up about 2-3% of the vote? Putin-prop looks a wee bit silly now, doesn't it?

Edited May 29, 2014 by Walsingham

[obyknven]

Incidentally, you fellahs picked up on the fact that the actual right wing parties in the Ukraine election picked up about 2-3% of the vote? Putin-prop looks a wee bit silly now, doesn't it?

Poroshenko  is main sponsor of Right sector and Maidan.  Fascism is alwais is power of big corporations, when right-wing Nazi's only play role of cannon fodder for moneybags. I wondering why you don't known such obvious things.

 

P.S. Proofs for education.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/bank-of-england/10214541/Was-Montagu-Norman-a-Nazi-sympathiser.html

http://archive.adl.org/braun/dim_13_2_forgetting.html#.U4cO7tSGiHw

http://ru.scribd.com/doc/33501158/Corporate-Fascism-Third-Reich

[Hassat Hunter]

The newly elected leader immediately ordered a massive bloodbath though...

 

Considering the army chief is one of the people one can vote for in Egypt... you seriously believe it's more savekeeping against attacks than in Ukraine?

 

And here in the Netherlands 2 out of 4 "packages" you can pick on school has information about the way the state is formed and ruled. It's not one of the most popular subjects though...

[Zoraptor]

Today they kidnapped four OECD observers instead.

OSCE. There's a slight difference.

 

If it's like last time we'll hear lots and lots about the poor non NATO Swede, a bit about the NATO members, and pretty much nothing about the bunch of Ukrainian military officers they were taking for a tour of rebel defences.

 

There're also reports of civilians used as living shields (separatists hide among the population) and false flag attacks on the civilian population. Of course, they've also blocked the presidential elections.

And there are also reports that they've been shelling themselves to smear the brave and courageous Ukrainian military! I hear there are reports that the rebels turfed babies out of incubators and impaled them on their spiked helmets, then ate them! With horseradish sauce! Made from real horses! Funny though, rebels 'using human shields and staging false flag operations' is straight out of Bashar Assad's PR play book from 2011, right down to blaming external sources for everything.

 

Oh by the way, since I've been reminded of monumentally crap propaganda regurgitation for some odd reason; number of Transnistrians burned alive in Odessa, zero. Number of Russians burned alive in Odessa, zero. Number of actual Odessans burned alive by Banderans in Odessa, well, all of those who died.

 

Pro Ukrainian sources couldn't lie straight in bed.

[Mor]

Incidentally, you fellahs picked up on the fact that the actual right wing parties in the Ukraine election picked up about 2-3% of the vote? Putin-prop looks a wee bit silly now, doesn't it?

only now Honestly the only silly thing here is assume that Putin cares how silly his statements are, or what collateral is incurred as long as it they get the job done. ( Kind like oby about antisemitism, like he gives a **** )

 

 

In other news: As predicted, Putin signs economic union deal with ex-Soviet states.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Mor

[Malcador]

So the bad rebels or whoeever shot down a chopper, killed a Ukrainian general.    With a Russian made AA system (which means Russia is behind it, obviously).

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27618681

[obyknven]

 With a Russian made AA system (which means Russia is behind it, obviously).

>Russian made AA system  means Russia is behind it

>Helicopter shot down by ordinary machine gun

>Region filled by Soviet (aka Russian) weapon.

>Biggest black market of arms.

Wut? 

[Gfted1]

I love horseradish (and wasabi).

[BruceVC]

I love horseradish (and wasabi).

 

So do I, especially wasabi with Sushi.

[Mor]

Its not the first helicopter they downed(third this month?), and wont be the last one with what they have there. In other news, Sloviansk(where this happened) is still center of fighting, and recently separatist militiamen abducted four osce monitors. According to the self-proclaimed mayor of Sloviansk ( the guy who previously claimed that the reporter that was abducted/roughed up was making an investigative piece there, and previously provided convenient proof of red sector attack with nice rolls of dollars couple of hours after an attack before any investigation) said they are safe and soon will be released.

 

Also recently the separatists militiamen attacked Donetsk airport and made attacks on army checkpoints.

 

 

Additionally, here is the new Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko profile

[obyknven]

Road of Death in Donetsk. Caution! Not for children! Corpses everywhere, raped killed girl, Nazianal Guards were here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpnjViyuvbQ

[obyknven]

Good article about Ukraine from ex-president of Czech republic.

http://www.institutvk.cz/politicke-komentare/politicky-komentar-ivk-c-25-zabranme-zplostovani-debaty-o-ukrajine

 

 

[Agiel]

Incidentally, you fellahs picked up on the fact that the actual right wing parties in the Ukraine election picked up about 2-3% of the vote? Putin-prop looks a wee bit silly now, doesn't it?

 

Oh, it gets better.

[obyknven]

Meanwhile in Europe - Germans greets member of Kievan junta.

http://youtu.be/_2ATvrEMmB0

[Zoraptor]

rofls, any article with "free and fair elections have come to Ukraine" in it is hopelessly biased. Do I have to drag up the OSCE report on the 2010 election ('free and fair', they just happened to elect the wrong guy) yet again? Asterisking partisan hack reporters, fire the lot of them into the sun and increase the IQ worldwide.

 

Spouting such obvious rubbish is an immediate red flag, as is using sourcing from one interested party. The SBU and Ukrainian entities in general have been about as reliable as Muhammed Saeed Al Sahaf was in his heyday (Transnistrian and Russians set themselves alight in Odessa- and even gassed themselves with chlorine. No seriously, that's what the President elect actually believes).

Edited May 30, 2014 by Zoraptor

[obyknven]

True. How can be "free and fair elections have come to Ukraine" if people of Donetsk oblast ( 4 356 392 ), Lugansk oblast  (2 236 502 ), Crimea (Kiev say this is Ukrainian territory so this mean 1 958 500 Ukrainian citizens live here) and Ukrainian gastarbaiters in Russia (around 4 500 000 ) can't vote? Around 13 051 394 Ukrainians from 45 197 226 Ukrainian populace or 29 % people can't vote - this is fair democratic elections.

[Mor]

 

Incidentally, you fellahs picked up on the fact that the actual right wing parties in the Ukraine election picked up about 2-3% of the vote? Putin-prop looks a wee bit silly now, doesn't it?

 

Oh, it gets better.

 

Don't forget Crimea, where on top of Russian forces taking over the parliament and key installations. While at the same time mobile phone network and internet connections were severely hampered, as well as government websites with denial of service attacks and social networks in basically cyberwar or information war (or rather disinformation) so they can spew their propaganda uninterrupted.. on top of that we had the "spontaneous" crowds that managed to intimidate observers (and very likely voters, to manage the facadeof unified front for Russia, much like like now in the east vote separatist tried force people not to vote to try and delegitimize the vote as representative). However, still we have silly people who ignore the context, spout rubbish and make convenient dry number comparisons in their party line of Ukraine being the source of all evil trying to legitimize Russian aggression.

[Hassat Hunter]

Hmmm, Russian rocket shot down Ukrain heli... sounds familiar.

 

Although last time they made that claim they later admitted it was small arms fire instead... let's see if that happens here too and how long it takes.

 

Also I do have to LOL at "finally elections" when Ukraine was having elections for a long long time...