Regarding Paradox Interactive, DRM's and GoG

[BjornB]

Hi,

 

We're glad to hear all the excitement over our recently announced partnership with Obsidian to bring Pillars of Eternity to market, believe us when we say that we're nothing but enthused working with them as we've been fans of their work over the years. When Fred and Feargus--that sounds like some sort of 80s sitcom--announced that nothing would change and that backers would receive what they were promised during Obsidian's Kickstarter campaign, we meant it. Still, we wanted to clarify something that we feel has been brought up by the community more than anything else since the announcement.

 

Pillars of Eternity will be released DRM-free and will be made available for sale on GOG. Just as Obsidian promised its backers that these options would be made possible during its Kickstarter, we here at Paradox have pledged to uphold this same agreement between them and the community.

 

Please look forward to enjoying Pillars of Eternity later this year; we certainly are.

 

-Paradox Interactive

[Rostere]

Fred and Feargus--that sounds like some sort of 80s sitcom

 

I would totally watch that.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Fred and Feargus should be a buddy-cop show.

[Sarex]

Wish you the best of luck guys and I hope this partnership helps the game sell.

[Nonek]

I'm sorry Mr Bjorn but being a publisher I cannot possibly trust a word you say nor accept that you are anything but the antichrist taken material form, no hard feelings however as I too am a graduate of the Belgian school of Evil Applied Rambunctiousness (BEAR,) having graduated with a BSC (Bachelor of Scheming and Cavorting,) PHD (Pilfering, Hoodwinking and Deception) and of course the obligatory MIT (Moustache Incremental Twirling.)

 

Jolly good luck with all your endeavours Sir.

[Sensuki]

What are you aiming for regarding the quality of the physical rewards?

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/65868-a-question-for-paradox-on-physical-reward-quality/

[BAdler]

What are you aiming for regarding the quality of the physical rewards?

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/65868-a-question-for-paradox-on-physical-reward-quality/

 

This was always going to be a balancing act. We want our rewards to be of the quality that Obsidian employees would expect of a game like this - things that are built to last and of good quality. Right now we are still trying to find where that perfect balance of cost vs. quality is, though.

[Ink Blot]

I think a question that's been asked and still not answered by this thread is: will the physical copies have DRM on them? (If this has been answered elsewhere, my apologies, as I've not seen it).

[milczyciel]

I'm cool - got a few retail Paradox games myself, so when it comes to the quality of "physical goods" I'm not worried at all.

 

Now, about that Copy Protection Wheel...

 

 

...pretty please? :D

(nope, I won't forget nor will I accept it was just a prank, it's just way to awesome)

 

[Lephys]

*Admiral Akbar voice* "It's a TRAP!"

 

Guys, their company name is "Paradox"! Sure, they're going to keep their word... AND they're going to break their word! It's just their nature, to impossibly do both at the same time!

 

 

I jest. Thanks for the reassuring words, and we look forward to glowing amounts of synergy pouring fourth from the collision of both yours (Paradox) and Obsidian's efforts of collaboration. ^_^

[BAdler]

I think a question that's been asked and still not answered by this thread is: will the physical copies have DRM on them? (If this has been answered elsewhere, my apologies, as I've not seen it).

 

I haven't talked it over with anyone yet, but I don't think we will be putting any copy protection on the physical copies. If we do anything, it will probably be on the level of a CD key, but there is probably no reason we would even want to do that.

 

Once we come to a final answer on that topic, I will fill you guys in.

[Ink Blot]

 

I think a question that's been asked and still not answered by this thread is: will the physical copies have DRM on them? (If this has been answered elsewhere, my apologies, as I've not seen it).

 

I haven't talked it over with anyone yet, but I don't think we will be putting any copy protection on the physical copies. If we do anything, it will probably be on the level of a CD key, but there is probably no reason we would even want to do that.

 

Once we come to a final answer on that topic, I will fill you guys in.

 

Thanks!

[Jarrakul]

Great to hear you guys take this stuff seriously. Speaking for myself, I never seriously doubted you because I never doubted Obsidian's judgment, but it's great to hear nonetheless.

[Sensuki]

 

What are you aiming for regarding the quality of the physical rewards?

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/65868-a-question-for-paradox-on-physical-reward-quality/

 

This was always going to be a balancing act. We want our rewards to be of the quality that Obsidian employees would expect of a game like this - things that are built to last and of good quality. Right now we are still trying to find where that perfect balance of cost vs. quality is, though.

 

 

Indeed, and fair enough. I hope you are able to get some good deals

[Bartimaeus]

 

I think a question that's been asked and still not answered by this thread is: will the physical copies have DRM on them? (If this has been answered elsewhere, my apologies, as I've not seen it).

 

I haven't talked it over with anyone yet, but I don't think we will be putting any copy protection on the physical copies. If we do anything, it will probably be on the level of a CD key, but there is probably no reason we would even want to do that.

 

Once we come to a final answer on that topic, I will fill you guys in.

 

 

Wouldn't a CD key be useful for, e.g., registering with Steam if you want to, though? (I'm not necessarily sure that that could actually be done, but it's a thought, nonetheless.)

Edited April 5, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[Death Machine Miyagi]

I've played way too much Crusader Kings 2 in my time and my history with Paradox games goes back to the original Europa Universalis. I beta tested the original Hearts of Iron and Victoria. Paradox and I get along just fine, on the whole, and I'm quite happy Paradox was chosen to help PoE reach the unwashed masses.  

 

With that thought in mind, I would ask Obsidian to avoid doing what Paradox does with their more recent titles. If you've got an expansion, don't chop it up and sell it in separate pieces. Crusader Kings 2 regularly sells the expansion itself, the new character models for the expansion and the music for the expansion separately, alongside a whole crapload of $2 unit packs and such that seem like they're designed to bleed you for as much as they can get. It gives me the disturbing feeling that I'm dealing with microtransactions, which conjures up traumatic memories of my experiences with EA games. 

 

Not that I really expect Obsidian has any intention of going that route, but the association with Paradox conjured up the thought.

 

Still waiting on that Steam sale to get Rajas of India. $15...pffft, what do they think I am, made of money? 

[Valsuelm]

I've played way too much Crusader Kings 2 in my time and my history with Paradox games goes back to the original Europa Universalis. I beta tested the original Hearts of Iron and Victoria. Paradox and I get along just fine, on the whole, and I'm quite happy Paradox was chosen to help PoE reach the unwashed masses.  

 

With that thought in mind, I would ask Obsidian to avoid doing what Paradox does with their more recent titles. If you've got an expansion, don't chop it up and sell it in separate pieces. Crusader Kings 2 regularly sells the expansion itself, the new character models for the expansion and the music for the expansion separately, alongside a whole crapload of $2 unit packs and such that seem like they're designed to bleed you for as much as they can get. It gives me the disturbing feeling that I'm dealing with microtransactions, which conjures up traumatic memories of my experiences with EA games. 

 

Not that I really expect Obsidian has any intention of going that route, but the association with Paradox conjured up the thought.

 

Still waiting on that Steam sale to get Rajas of India. $15...pffft, what do they think I am, made of money? 

 

I brought your concern up In another thread and Obsidian assured us that we'd see only real expansions and no piecemeal DLCs.

 

I do recommend reading that thread if you have any questions/concerns about the partnership as BAdler has done a very good job of addressing the concerns mentioned there. Clarification from BjornB is of course much appreciated as well.

[nipsen]

 

Pillars of Eternity will be released DRM-free and will be made available for sale on GOG. Just as Obsidian promised its backers that these options would be made possible during its Kickstarter, we here at Paradox have pledged to uphold this same agreement between them and the community.

 

Please look forward to enjoying Pillars of Eternity later this year; we certainly are.

 

-Paradox Interactive

 

No offense, but you could all lay this to rest instantly if you simply stated that "Yes, we will release and facilitate a release for the kickstarter backers that will be activation and drm free. As per promise, if not in written statement - which we do not owe you, but we promise dearly anyway! So trust us!". Which I suppose is what you just did.

 

And then added: "We will then release a drm and activation free release on quality disc production, with amazing bling, and in a beautiful non-standard sized box - to supplement the collectors. As well as those who wish to save themselves the 40Gb download. Of course, we will also supply various ways to appropriate the upcoming dlc, both digitally and on disc".

 

If you did that, no one would ask a question about this again.

 

By the way - thank you for allowing me to craft that statement for you. That will be fifty bucks, please.

[catspwnme]

I loved the April fools joke. Lol so believable!

[illathid]

I've played way too much Crusader Kings 2 in my time and my history with Paradox games goes back to the original Europa Universalis. I beta tested the original Hearts of Iron and Victoria. Paradox and I get along just fine, on the whole, and I'm quite happy Paradox was chosen to help PoE reach the unwashed masses.  

 

With that thought in mind, I would ask Obsidian to avoid doing what Paradox does with their more recent titles. If you've got an expansion, don't chop it up and sell it in separate pieces. Crusader Kings 2 regularly sells the expansion itself, the new character models for the expansion and the music for the expansion separately, alongside a whole crapload of $2 unit packs and such that seem like they're designed to bleed you for as much as they can get. It gives me the disturbing feeling that I'm dealing with microtransactions, which conjures up traumatic memories of my experiences with EA games. 

 

Not that I really expect Obsidian has any intention of going that route, but the association with Paradox conjured up the thought.

 

Still waiting on that Steam sale to get Rajas of India. $15...pffft, what do they think I am, made of money?

 

I've seen this sentiment before I just really don't get it. What's wrong about selling it in separate pieces? I have more than a few friends that couldn't care less about unit sprites, music, and face packs. Why should they have to pay the extra $5 to $10 dollars just to be able to get the expansion stuff they want? It's not like if they included them all in one pack the price would remain the same.

 

Regardless, that's not how it will work with PoE.

[Fluff]

 

I've played way too much Crusader Kings 2 in my time and my history with Paradox games goes back to the original Europa Universalis. I beta tested the original Hearts of Iron and Victoria. Paradox and I get along just fine, on the whole, and I'm quite happy Paradox was chosen to help PoE reach the unwashed masses.  

 

With that thought in mind, I would ask Obsidian to avoid doing what Paradox does with their more recent titles. If you've got an expansion, don't chop it up and sell it in separate pieces. Crusader Kings 2 regularly sells the expansion itself, the new character models for the expansion and the music for the expansion separately, alongside a whole crapload of $2 unit packs and such that seem like they're designed to bleed you for as much as they can get. It gives me the disturbing feeling that I'm dealing with microtransactions, which conjures up traumatic memories of my experiences with EA games. 

 

Not that I really expect Obsidian has any intention of going that route, but the association with Paradox conjured up the thought.

 

Still waiting on that Steam sale to get Rajas of India. $15...pffft, what do they think I am, made of money?

I've seen this sentiment before I just really don't get it. What's wrong about selling it in separate pieces? I have more than a few friends that couldn't care less about unit sprites, music, and face packs. Why should they have to pay the extra $5 to $10 dollars just to be able to get the expansion stuff they want? It's not like if they included them all in one pack the price would remain the same.

 

Regardless, that's not how it will work with PoE.

 

 

I feel this way too.

 

and honestly.. as someone who gets really into the role playing and customization I would be more than happy to see portrait packs and the like produced and released after they are finished making the game and or it's expansion. I don't see what's so evil and money grubbing about pictures. If you don't want them, don't buy them..they have literally zero effect on the game but make people who like them happy.

[W.MacKinnon]

Fluff, if games sell portrait backs, or character customizations as DLC, what do you think happens as a result? You've played BG, IWD, other infinity engine games I noted from your other posts. So if you compare one of those titles to let's say an EA rpg, example? Dragon Age 2. 1 - No modding, 2 - Fewer PC paperdoll costumes/armor, 3 - Fewer side-quests. These are all things you can sell seperately. The NO MODDING is obviously due to the fact user created content will lead to less people purchasing number 2 and 3. The practice leads to inferior games by design!

 

If Obsidian starts DLC'ing every component of their game I'll likely never back another project by them, and wait for steam sales/bargain bin - just like anything EA/Bioware might put out. Quite simple. As another aside, I really don't think Obsidian developers intend to do this, in fact in their kickstarter pitch, they said they were going back to the way expanions used to be, an entirely new storyline. Not a single episode of a prolonged DLC release strategy.

[Jarrakul]

Um, Dragon Age 2 has mods. I mean, it's not Skyrim, but it definitely has them. I've even done some slight modding myself (as complicated as I've done in anything, really). Adding Elder Scrolls-style full-blown mod support is difficult and expensive. There are very good reasons not to add it other than "we want you to buy our DLCs." And, while we're on the subject, DA2 had at least as much armor variety as the old IE games (at least for the main character, and the item packs only gave armor for the main character), so I don't really see that point either. For that matter, I don't understand how you say it lacks sidequests. It lacks areas, no doubt, but I certainly never felt like there weren't enough sidequests to do. For that matter, its "sidequest" DLCs are two of the most substantial DLCs I've played, both adding a number of hours of content, some entirely new gameplay, and some very interesting additions to the lore, which is exactly what I'd want DLC to add.

 

Now, the whole thing with Sebastian being preorder bonus/day-one DLC instead of just a release character is totally worth criticizing. Actually, a lot about how they did preorder bonuses is worth criticizing ("want to respec your character? well did you preorder? no? then too bad."). But when you accuse the game of being otherwise incomplete in order to encourage people to buy DLCs, I just don't see it. There was a lot wrong with DA2, but there's not a lot of correlation between the base game's flaws and what the DLCs add.

[Fluff]

Fluff, if games sell portrait backs, or character customizations as DLC, what do you think happens as a result? You've played BG, IWD, other infinity engine games I noted from your other posts. So if you compare one of those titles to let's say an EA rpg, example? Dragon Age 2. 1 - No modding, 2 - Fewer PC paperdoll costumes/armor, 3 - Fewer side-quests. These are all things you can sell seperately. The NO MODDING is obviously due to the fact user created content will lead to less people purchasing number 2 and 3. The practice leads to inferior games by design!

 

If Obsidian starts DLC'ing every component of their game I'll likely never back another project by them, and wait for steam sales/bargain bin - just like anything EA/Bioware might put out. Quite simple. As another aside, I really don't think Obsidian developers intend to do this, in fact in their kickstarter pitch, they said they were going back to the way expanions used to be, an entirely new storyline. Not a single episode of a prolonged DLC release strategy.

 

I'm honestly not seeing the connection. A game can be both mod-friendly and complete and still have DLC. It's been done before.

I never said to start "DLC'ing every component of their game" and I also wasn't talking about the expansion pack or prolonged DLC.

 

I am talking about completely optional side content that has absolutely nothing to do with the main game or it's expansion after those things are complete for people who like them.

Not cutting content and selling it later, not an expansion, nothing like that.. just plain and simple extra DLC down the road after the entire game is done and over with.

[W.MacKinnon]

As to DA2 having mods Jarrakul, I'll have to be honest and say I didn't really look for them. I finished the game quite early on, and never replayed it. I did notice the 9 pieces of DLC armor and noted the NPCs not being as customizable as DAO. Still the game doesn't seem to have any side-quest mods; though most games don't. The game itself was average, and worse then it's predessor. I did finish it just never had the urge to replay it. I did feel like the game had to much backtraking, but that was the whole re-useing areas problem many account to the game.

 

As to Fluff, a mentality that selling side-content like character portraits does lead to cutting content to sell later. It's seems to be getting worse with each iteration of a game starting to do it. If a game has a feature to import custom portraits why sell a portrait pack as DLC down the line? More money can be garnered from the end-user by having fewer intial portraits, and making it difficult to import user created ones. That's rather simplistic take on it.

 

Just seems this generation of games is more vabid, maybe I'm putting to much blame on DLC. It could be more indicitive of less original ideas or developers and publishers not taking risks rehashing old material. Sorry if I come across as trolling you guys, I don't really post on this particular forum very often and mentioning DLC/microtransations is like my big red button.

Edited April 6, 2014 by W.MacKinnon