Meshugger Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/ Justice achieved, why wasn't i told? 1 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 Ooops, it's almost three years. Now celebrate! 1 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Oh boy, this thread is going to be fun. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 "This study leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action. Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers." Isn't this great? Good news for once! "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyrock Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) Don't mind me, I'm just grabbing a seat in the front row. Edited March 3, 2014 by Keyrock 3 RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarex Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) Well men are stronger and smarter, so we deserve higher paychecks. to get the ball rolling Edited March 3, 2014 by Sarex "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Don't mind me, I'm just grabbing a seat in the front row. I'll bring the soda pop if you let me have some of that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 That's good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blarghagh Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Is anyone going to play Devil's Advocate or can we all agree that men > feminists?I expect Bruce will be the one to get things going. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 ...Am I the only one who feels that while it's undisputable that men and women get paid the same amount for the same work, having way less women in scientific fields and high-paying management jobs means we've still not reached equality? "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 ...Am I the only one who feels that while it's undisputable that men and women get paid the same amount for the same work, having way less women in scientific fields and high-paying management jobs means we've still not reached equality? That's their fault, not ours. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oerwinde Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I assumed the lack of women in physics and engineering while chemistry and biology are seeing more parity had more to do with men liking logic and building stuff while women want to help people The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 That's their fault, not ours. Well, studies say at early childhood female and male children have the same aptitude for math and related stuff, so it stands to reason that at least some amount of social conditioning is involved. Also, I somehow can't fault women who have their doubts about spending an inordinate amount of their lives (college, then job) in the almost-exclusive company of mostly socially inept and entitlement issue-laden nerd boys. "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 I assumed the lack of women in physics and engineering while chemistry and biology are seeing more parity had more to do with men liking logic and building stuff while women want to help people That, and in finance and management certain traits are awarded: callousness and the ability to shield your emotions when you have to fire 10 000 people in the name of profit. Those traits aren't as common in women as in men. Of course there are exceptions, and they are just that. All of which makes life more unpredictable and exciting. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I assumed the lack of women in physics and engineering while chemistry and biology are seeing more parity had more to do with men liking logic and building stuff while women want to help people Yeah I think this is pretty close to the truth. My fiancée is a Registered Nurse and she had excellent grades in all her math, chemistry, etc classes during her undergrad work. If she had wanted to pursue a Engineering degree of any discipline she could have done so easily. In my entire time ay FAU there was only one woman in any of the engineering programs. People choose what they choose. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I wanted to go into biology lab research, but formal education and I don't get along, so I chose to play video games instead. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 "...Am I the only one who feels that while it's undisputable that men and women get paid the same amount for the same work, having way less women in scientific fields and high-paying management jobs means we've still not reached equality?" \You are insane. Equality is about being treated equal which as theis report suggests, money wise that is exactly what happens. Are you gonna blame men for women choosing to be dentists and nurses for the most part instead of specialized surgeons? That's sexist. Choice is the ultimate equalizer. 1 DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Well, studies say at early childhood female and male children have the same aptitude for math and related stuff, so it stands to reason that at least some amount of social conditioning is involved. Also, I somehow can't fault women who have their doubts about spending an inordinate amount of their lives (college, then job) in the almost-exclusive company of mostly socially inept and entitlement issue-laden nerd boys. Well, you'll get situations like the claims that http://www.gsa.uk.com/news/girls-can-do-well-in-maths-and-physics/]Girls School Association indicates that girls in all girls schools tend to pick more STEM classes than in mixed schools (not sure if this is accurate. It just seems to be their claim). Coupled with over-representation in receiving the top marks in those classes, it may be an indicator that social factors can influence whether or not a girl enrolls in those types of classes. Barring any sort of sampling bias that may exist between those that attend an all girls school, and those that don't. There may be costs to putting them in an all girls school as well, though (unsurprisingly) a link from a site for all girls school doesn't mention anything like that so I have no real visibility and have to get back to insuring no more than 2.43 bugs make it into DAI! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 That's their fault, not ours. Well, studies say at early childhood female and male children have the same aptitude for math and related stuff, so it stands to reason that at least some amount of social conditioning is involved. Also, I somehow can't fault women who have their doubts about spending an inordinate amount of their lives (college, then job) in the almost-exclusive company of mostly socially inept and entitlement issue-laden nerd boys. So they have been conditioned to believe that those jobs are only for "socially inept and entitlement issue laden nerd boys"? and that's why you brought it up not because you actually believe that women think that and that is the reason why they don't go for those jobs. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 So they have been conditioned to believe that those jobs are only for "socially inept and entitlement issue laden nerd boys"? Nope, they've been conditioned to believe that "girls aren't good at math", which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Socially inept and entitlement issue-laden nerd boys create a workspace where many women feel uncomfortable. If you don't believe me, ask any woman working in those fields. "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I don't know about the rest of the STEM fields, in mine it seems to be true just because games attract that kind of personality. To be honest the women are sometimes more awkward than the men. Also, considering the fact that most people (specially in the US) are fighting the learning curve I would say that both boys and girls can be considered to "not be good at math". If you told me that they have been conditioned to believe that girls are only valuable for their looks I might had agreed with you, that still bears little relevance to job disparity. Women and men seem to want different things out of life; women seem to like stability and security (having a good "nest" to raise their kids) and men seem to be more focused on achievement (providing said stability). The modern social sciences seem all to keen on disregarding millennial of evolution in favor of egalitarianism, gender roles and values are the result of a selective process that has been going on for a long time. Its hubris to think that one hastily crafted information model would actually surpass what has been proven by nature, as it wouldn't have otherwise succeeded and been present on our times. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 The modern social sciences seem all to keen on disregarding millennial of evolution in favor of egalitarianism, gender roles and values are the result of a selective process that has been going on for a long time. Its hubris to think that one hastily crafted information model would actually surpass what has been proven by nature, as it wouldn't have otherwise succeeded and been present on our times. Yeah, well, I'm really not a big believer in evopsych, and if you look at what passes as "science" in the majority of that field, you'll understand why. "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Nope, they've been conditioned to believe that "girls aren't good at math", which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Socially inept and entitlement issue-laden nerd boys create a workspace where many women feel uncomfortable. If you don't believe me, ask any woman working in those fields. That's some view of men working in STEM that they are mostly 'nerd boys' and are socially inept and 'entitlement issue-laden' (which I suppose one can work anything into). Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 So they have been conditioned to believe that those jobs are only for "socially inept and entitlement issue laden nerd boys"? Nope, they've been conditioned to believe that "girls aren't good at math", which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Socially inept and entitlement issue-laden nerd boys create a workspace where many women feel uncomfortable. If you don't believe me, ask any woman working in those fields. Implication that there is a relationship between sex and personality issues and social skills development. What you did there. I see it. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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