Uganda Criminalizes Homosexuality

[BruceVC]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uganda-tabloid-publishes-top-homosexuals-list-after-anti-gay-law-signing-1.2550260?cmp=fbtl

 

So absurd it's actually kind of funny.  Wonder if they have a Homosexual Watch List too, for travellers.

 

I wish it was funny but its not. This is always the beginning of these types of draconian laws, first you legalize hate for a particular minority group. Then you mark or identify who the members of this group are.  This empowers people to commit hate crimes against the targeted group without fear of persecution. Then you'll see systematic murders of activists and of the people who are being discriminated against

 

Its the same modus operandi that the Nazi's used against the Jews

[Meshugger]

Hitler-card pulled. This thread is over!

[Malcador]

I wish it was funny but its not. This is always the beginning of these types of draconian laws, first you legalize hate for a particular minority group. Then you mark or identify who the members of this group are.  This empowers people to commit hate crimes against the targeted group without fear of persecution. Then you'll see systematic murders of activists and of the people who are being discriminated against

 

Its the same modus operandi that the Nazi's used against the Jews

It is funny. A bit early on to be warning of some of Final Solution to homosexuals though.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I wish it was funny but its not. This is always the beginning of these types of draconian laws, first you legalize hate for a particular minority group. Then you mark or identify who the members of this group are.  This empowers people to commit hate crimes against the targeted group without fear of persecution. Then you'll see systematic murders of activists and of the people who are being discriminated against

 

Its the same modus operandi that the Nazi's used against the Jews

 

"The problem with nazism is that sooner or later everyone becomes a jew."

[TrashMan]

 

 

 

I believe that the retort to that would be that morality is subjective, and that humans don't have any inherent rights.

 

Of course, I don't believe that, but no one is asking me to make laws.

 

 

It is a oxymoron in some ways.

If you truly believe in a specific morality you feel compelled to enforce it, even tough forcing ones beliefs and values on someone can in itself be inherently immoral.

 

In other words, everyone is self-righteous. Everyone. No exceptions.

 

 

I want to ask you a very important question, do you personally think its right to put someone in jail for life for having consensual same sex?

 

 

See bolded ^^

 

 

 

 

I wish it was funny but its not. This is always the beginning of these types of draconian laws, first you legalize hate for a particular minority group.

 

Hate never was illegal to begin with.

 

Expression of hate towards specific things may be.

But you can't really make hate illegal.

Hating whomever you want for whatever reason you want is the basic human "right".

 

 

Nitpicking here, but I'm bored.

 

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wish it was funny but its not. This is always the beginning of these types of draconian laws, first you legalize hate for a particular minority group.

 

Hate never was illegal to begin with.

 

Expression of hate towards specific things may be.

But you can't really make hate illegal.

Hating whomever you want for whatever reason you want is the basic human "right".

 

 

Nitpicking here, but I'm bored.

 

 

I disagree, I have never seen a single constitution in the world  that says  " you are entitled to hate as a  basic human right". Maybe you can provide a link that can dispute this ?

[Zoraptor]

Can you show a single constitution that outlaws hate? Can you show a single constitution that allows noodle eating? Or having a nose?

 

There's a reason why laws have to be made to make things illegal rather than having everything be illegal be default. As such, it is up to you to prove that generic hate is illegal, not on him to prove it's legal.

[BruceVC]

Can you show a single constitution that outlaws hate? Can you show a single constitution that allows noodle eating? Or having a nose?

 

There's a reason why laws have to be made to make things illegal rather than having everything be illegal be default. As such, it is up to you to prove that generic hate is illegal, not on him to prove it's legal.

 

Wow that's a clever post, okay lets be pedantic and not understand my original point. Yes you right its a basic human right to hate and this is something that countries allow. Is that better?

[TrashMan]

 

 

I disagree, I have never seen a single constitution in the world  that says  " you are entitled to hate as a  basic human right". Maybe you can provide a link that can dispute this ?

 

 

Sanctity of a human mind.

 

I've set to see a constitution that writes "You're not allowed to FEEL this/that or THINK this/that".

 

So yes, I bloody well think it's a human right, given that nobody can take it away from you (yet. Once mind-reading and brainwashing becomes possible, then all freedom is gone forever)

 

[kgambit]

Can you show a single constitution that outlaws hate?

 

Hate per se?  No.  Expression (vocal or written) of that hate against specific groups or individuals is prohibited by numerous countries.

 

Brazil, Sweden, South Africa, and Serbia have specific provisions in their constiutions against hate speech.  There are also several countries whose penal codes prohibit it (Netherlands, France, Croatia, Canada, Belgium etc.). 

Edited February 26, 2014 by kgambit

[Meshugger]

Hate speech laws only sweep unwanted opinions under the rug, just because no one is saying anything publicly, it doesn't mean that the opinion exist in itself. Feel-good laws if you may call it so. Also, these kinds of laws give further leeway for hindering discourse since they by design (what is 'hate speech'? hard satire? stereotyping?) are making people, and the state, to able to use the law to silence any percieved hate.

[BruceVC]

Hate speech laws only sweep unwanted opinions under the rug, just because no one is saying anything publicly, it doesn't mean that the opinion exist in itself. Feel-good laws if you may call it so. Also, these kinds of laws give further leeway for hindering discourse since they by design (what is 'hate speech'? hard satire? stereotyping?) are making people, and the state, to able to use the law to silence any percieved hate.

 

Well I know when I mentioned this before you made a few jokes about it but in the South African constitution our clause about free speech really works, "say what you want but  you can't impact the dignity of a person." Yes the words "dignity" can be subjective but its not hard to work out what you should or shouldn't say

[Valsuelm]

 

Can you show a single constitution that outlaws hate? Can you show a single constitution that allows noodle eating? Or having a nose?

 

There's a reason why laws have to be made to make things illegal rather than having everything be illegal be default. As such, it is up to you to prove that generic hate is illegal, not on him to prove it's legal.

 

Wow that's a clever post, okay lets be pedantic and not understand my original point. Yes you right its a basic human right to hate and this is something that countries allow. Is that better?

 

 

It is a basic right to think whatever you wish no matter how right or wrong it may be. Wrong of course often being a subjective thing.

 

You don't get basic rights from a constitution, you get them from just existing. Your Constitution happens to be one of the more @#$*(@#ed up ones in the western world by the way.

 

Outlawing certain types of thought is arguably more evil than the whatever it is you're attempting to outlaw.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Valsuelm

[BruceVC]

 

 

Can you show a single constitution that outlaws hate? Can you show a single constitution that allows noodle eating? Or having a nose?

 

There's a reason why laws have to be made to make things illegal rather than having everything be illegal be default. As such, it is up to you to prove that generic hate is illegal, not on him to prove it's legal.

 

Wow that's a clever post, okay lets be pedantic and not understand my original point. Yes you right its a basic human right to hate and this is something that countries allow. Is that better?

 

 

It is a basic right to think whatever you wish no matter how right or wrong it may be. Wrong of course often being a subjective thing.

 

You don't get basic rights from a constitution, you get them from just existing. Your Constitution happens to be one of the more @#$*(@#ed up ones in the western world by the way.

 

Outlawing certain types of thought is arguably more evil than the whatever it is you're attempting to outlaw.

 

 

Wow, if you don't like the SA constitution then just say so. I prefer honesty and I don't believe you are being sincere with all this admiration....

[Meshugger]

 

Hate speech laws only sweep unwanted opinions under the rug, just because no one is saying anything publicly, it doesn't mean that the opinion exist in itself. Feel-good laws if you may call it so. Also, these kinds of laws give further leeway for hindering discourse since they by design (what is 'hate speech'? hard satire? stereotyping?) are making people, and the state, to able to use the law to silence any percieved hate.

 

Well I know when I mentioned this before you made a few jokes about it but in the South African constitution our clause about free speech really works, "say what you want but  you can't impact the dignity of a person." Yes the words "dignity" can be subjective but its not hard to work out what you should or shouldn't say

 

 

I'll be nice this time though. As long as you do not claim that SA has free speech or freedom of expression, then it is ok with me.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Meshugger

[BruceVC]

 

 

Hate speech laws only sweep unwanted opinions under the rug, just because no one is saying anything publicly, it doesn't mean that the opinion exist in itself. Feel-good laws if you may call it so. Also, these kinds of laws give further leeway for hindering discourse since they by design (what is 'hate speech'? hard satire? stereotyping?) are making people, and the state, to able to use the law to silence any percieved hate.

 

Well I know when I mentioned this before you made a few jokes about it but in the South African constitution our clause about free speech really works, "say what you want but  you can't impact the dignity of a person." Yes the words "dignity" can be subjective but its not hard to work out what you should or shouldn't say

 

 

I'll be nice this time though. As long as you do not claim that SA has free speech or freedom of expression, then it is ok with me.

 

 

Okay you saying I shouldn't claim that because we don't because of the clause?

[Meshugger]

Yep Speech is either free or it isn't.

[BruceVC]

Yep Speech is either free or it isn't.

 

Yeah we had this debate on the Internet Troll thread and we will never see each others point which is fine, so it would be waste of time discussing it further. I won't bring it up

[Meshugger]

Exactly. Now back to the gays.

 

This is apparantly what Ugandians believe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euXQbZDwV0w

[BruceVC]

Exactly. Now back to the gays.

 

This is apparantly what Ugandians believe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euXQbZDwV0w

 

OMG, is that a parody? It can't be real, surly that's not how the Ugandan authorities are spreading the homophobic message?

[Valsuelm]

Exactly. Now back to the gays.

 

This is apparantly what Ugandians believe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euXQbZDwV0w

 

Obama wants you to have the right to eat poo poo. That sounds about right.

[Meshugger]

 

Exactly. Now back to the gays.

 

This is apparantly what Ugandians believe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euXQbZDwV0w

 

OMG, is that a parody? It can't be real, surly that's not how the Ugandan authorities are spreading the homophobic message?

 

 

Sorry, i have bad news for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7T-Gr60Fo8

Edited February 26, 2014 by Meshugger

[Zoraptor]

 

Can you show a single constitution that outlaws hate?

 

Hate per se?  No.  Expression (vocal or written) of that hate against specific groups or individuals is prohibited by numerous countries.

Trashman had already stated that in the post Bruce replied to, so Bruce was obviously referring to hate, the emotion, as opposed to hate speech. My point was obviously that you need specific laws to make things illegal (hence no law legalising having a nose or eating noodles) and he wouldn't find many if any making hate, the emotion, illegal.

 

Basically Bruce's disingenuousness managed to elicit a response, though probably not the one he was aiming for.

[HoonDing]

I'm not sure why OP is even singling out Uganda. Homosexuality is criminalized in many countries (and still in some US states if I'm not mistaken), but it's easy to pick on the weakest and poorest of the bunch.

[Mor]

I'm not sure why OP is even singling out Uganda. Homosexuality is criminalized in many countries (and still in some US states if I'm not mistaken), but it's easy to pick on the weakest and poorest of the bunch.

what?