RANDOM VIDEO GAME NEWS

[Keyrock]

I have a hard time going back to KotOR 1/2 at all.  While there is a lot to like about those games, the combat system is so atrocious that I almost have to physically force myself to keep playing, at which point the thought comes up "why do this to myself?" and I stop.  While I was going through the games the first time and discovering things, that was enough to keep me going.  Now that I've finished them before, going back is just not worth it.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Keyrock

[HoonDing]

I played them both seven times, so I'm pretty much done with them.

[babaganoosh13]

Man! I'm still waiting for MS to fix the Season Pass issue for Wolf Among Us for the Xbox.

 

Basically, even though we bought the season pass; it still wants to charge us for episode 2. Fix is supposed to be coming today.

[sorophx]

So......don't leave us hanging. What is the best game on the list in your opinion?

it doesn't matter what game is the best, PST is not it. it's a good game, but it has flaws, and personally I find it unplayable due to those flaws, 

[Monte Carlo]

Yeah, I don't think I actually have a top ten RPG list...

 

Er, in no particular order I like all the IE games except Planescape, JA2 (borderline RPG) and Dragon Age: Origins.

 

My other passions are RTS and Strategy, which is where I come from as a computer gamer.

 

I could easily give you a top ten pen and paper RPG list, but that's a different kettle of fish.

[Meshugger]

 

So......don't leave us hanging. What is the best game on the list in your opinion?

it doesn't matter what game is the best, PST is not it. it's a good game, but it has flaws, and personally I find it unplayable due to those flaws, 

 

 

Oh come on. I can fully understand the lack of combat or overreliance on certain attributes compared to others, but unplayable?

[sorophx]

like I said, personally. I really like combat oriented RPGs, especially when it's group based. but in PST combat felt like a developer's afterthought, that I just can't be bothered to suffer through. ideally PST would have the option to turn combat off completely. but since it doesn't, I don't play it. one time was enough. I have the book version, I'd rather read that

[Sarex]

Oh come on. I can fully understand the lack of combat or overreliance on certain attributes compared to others, but unplayable?

 

It could have been a visual novel and not suffered for it. The combat mechanics didn't add anything to the game, in fact they detracted from it.

[babaganoosh13]

Hence, for me why I didn't have my heart set on any particular type of combat for Torment Numenera.

[Keyrock]

As far as I'm concerned, there could have been zero combat in PS:T and it would still be the best RPG I've ever played.  In fact, it would have been an even better game had there not been any combat at all.  Of course, I'm a story first gamer.  Great writing can keep me playing in the face of even horrible mechanics, hence why I am still able to play and enjoy The Secret World.

[sorophx]

 In fact, it would have been an even better game had there not been any combat at all. 

that's exactly the point

[Sarex]

As far as I'm concerned, there could have been zero combat in PS:T and it would still be the best RPG I've ever played.  In fact, it would have been an even better game had there not been any combat at all.  Of course, I'm a story first gamer.  Great writing can keep me playing in the face of even horrible mechanics, hence why I am still able to play and enjoy The Secret World.

 

Hmmm, I can't be like that, because then what's the point. To be quite honest, while PS:T had a great story for a game, it was maybe average for a story on it's own. If I want a great story I will read a book and no game or movie will match what my imagination can conjure from it. A game should have good game play, that is it's purpose, if it fails at that then it fails at being a good game no matter how good the story is, which is not to say that story doesn't matter. Bioshock Infinite, for an example, had above average game play and a great story and it made for a fantastic game. It wasn't the most revolutionary game play but it was fun and it had a great story to pull you along. Games are a media that require interaction from a player and just having a good story can't accomplish that.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Sarex

[Keyrock]

 

As far as I'm concerned, there could have been zero combat in PS:T and it would still be the best RPG I've ever played.  In fact, it would have been an even better game had there not been any combat at all.  Of course, I'm a story first gamer.  Great writing can keep me playing in the face of even horrible mechanics, hence why I am still able to play and enjoy The Secret World.

 

Hmmm, I can't be like that, because then what's the point. To be quite honest, while PS:T had a great story for a game, it was maybe average for a story on it's own. If I want a great story I will read a book and no game or movie will match what my imagination can conjure from it. A game should have good game play, that is it's purpose, if it fails at that then it fails at being a good game no matter how good the story is, which is not to say that story doesn't matter. Bioshock Infinite, for an example, had above average game play and a great story and it made for a fantastic game. It wasn't the most revolutionary game play but it was fun and it had a great story to pull you along. Games are a media that require interaction from a player and just having a good story can't accomplish that.

 

Binfinite's story is overrated, in my opinion.  It's by no means bad, but I feel it's far from "great".  To suggest PS: T's writing is "average" then turn around and say that Binfinite's writing is "great" is mind boggling and bass ackwards for me, but to each his own.  I would certainly prefer a game to have great gameplay and great story, and I agree that there needs to be actualy gameplay for it to really be a game, as opposed to what David Cage keeps making (made all the worse by the fact that his games' writing is on average rather mediocre).  Gameplay does not have to necessarily mean combat.  In fact, combat can sometimes be a cheap cop out to creating different and creative ways for the player to get through situations.  For me, interesting writing and a good setting can keep me playing even if I'm having to fight the controls.    That's me, though.  I get not everyone is wired the same way.  

 

Edit:  Just so I'm not misunderstood, I thought Binfinite was a good game with maybe above average writing (all things considered) and above average gameplay.  And I didn't think PS:T's combat was horrible, just pretty mediocre and by far the weakest aspect of the game.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Keyrock

[Nonek]

I have a terrible dark secret to reveal, I liked Torment's combat. It helps that I did not build the usual WIS/INT/CHA character and rather built for combat, using the old giant strength specialisation trick. He was very potent in combat but quite well balanced in the other attributes.

 

Edit: Got to agree with Keyrock that Infinite was perhaps one of the worst most illogical narratives i've ever played, extremely arbitrary and nonsensical.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Nonek

[Sarex]

Binfinite's story is overrated, in my opinion.  It's by no means bad, but I feel it's far from "great".  To suggest PS: T's writing is "average" then turn around and say that Binfinite's writing is "great" is mind boggling and bass ackwards for me, but to each his own.  I would certainly prefer a game to have great gameplay and great story, and I agree that there needs to be actualy gameplay for it to really be a game, as opposed to what David Cage keeps making (made all the worse by the fact that his games' writing is on average rather mediocre).  Gameplay does not have to necessarily mean combat.  In fact, combat can sometimes be a cheap cop out to creating different and creative ways for the player to get through situations.  For me, interesting writing and a good setting can keep me playing even if I'm having to fight the controls.    That's me, though.  I get not everyone is wired the same way.

 

You misunderstood, PS:T writing was average compared to stories you read in books and so is Infinites, I was not comparing the two. To be honest while the story of PS:T may be better (in some parts), the character development in Infinite blows Torment out of the water. Though I must admit it has been a long time since I played Torment, so the story and characters aren't really fresh in my mind as they are for Infinity.

 

Maybe I'll try and do a replay and see if I can do an honest comparison between the two.

 

edit: To add it's striking that infinite causes such polarizing opinions, I haven't met a single person who didn't either like the game or hate/think it was pretensions.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Sarex

[Nonek]

Personally I didn't think it was pretentious, simply poorly written by somebody who obviously didn't understand the subject they were dealing with. That and the total lack of choice and idiotic unmotivated characters spoiled it for me, they have the power to alter all of space and time at their disposal and are for some reason bothered by one ordinary man, utterly ridiculous.

 

Edit: I do agree however that with the lack of interactivity and consequence a novel would be far more preferable to Infinite.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Nonek

[HoonDing]

Personally I didn't think it was pretentious, simply poorly written by somebody who obviously didn't understand the subject they were dealing with. That and the total lack of choice and idiotic unmotivated characters spoiled it for me, they have the power to alter all of space and time at their disposal and are for some reason bothered by one ordinary man, utterly ridiculous.

 

Edit: I do agree however that with the lack of interactivity and consequence a novel would be far more preferable to Infinite.

I thought this post was about PS:T until I read Infinite at the very end.

[Orogun01]

Personally I didn't think it was pretentious, simply poorly written by somebody who obviously didn't understand the subject they were dealing with. That and the total lack of choice and idiotic unmotivated characters spoiled it for me, they have the power to alter all of space and time at their disposal and are for some reason bothered by one ordinary man, utterly ridiculous.

 

Edit: I do agree however that with the lack of interactivity and consequence a novel would be far more preferable to Infinite.

You kind of hit the nail on the head, Levine himself has admitted about not knowing anything about the subject (quantum physics) Although if he didn't knew there is the question of  why he wouldn't research it like a good science fiction writer.

I personally don't think games are a great medium for storytelling; in fact I consider it the worst, but I suspect that the reason of why Infinite story got so much attention was the novelty. Its nothing that you haven't seen before but it's definitely something that it's supporters found novel. AKA "Baby first Sci Fi"

[Keyrock]

To me, Binfinite makes a great first impression, and I suspect that is enough for some to proclaim it as brilliant.  The setting is really cool looking and the story seems great, until you play the game for a while and the luster wears off, revealing how underutilized and constricted the setting actually is and just how much of the story simply makes no sense whatsoever.

[Sarex]

You kind of hit the nail on the head, Levine himself has admitted about not knowing anything about the subject (quantum physics) Although if he didn't knew there is the question of  why he wouldn't research it like a good science fiction writer.

I personally don't think games are a great medium for storytelling; in fact I consider it the worst, but I suspect that the reason of why Infinite story got so much attention was the novelty. Its nothing that you haven't seen before but it's definitely something that it's supporters found novel. AKA "Baby first Sci Fi"

 

Suspension of disbelief, also a lot of great science fiction writers where called out on their writing in regards to science not making any sense in their books. I personally don't mind faulty science in science fiction books, as usually it is not the point of the book but just a backdrop.

 

To me, Binfinite makes a great first impression, and I suspect that is enough for some to proclaim it as brilliant.  The setting is really cool looking and the story seems great, until you play the game for a while and the luster wears off, revealing how underutilized and constricted the setting actually is and just how much of the story simply makes no sense whatsoever.

 

What part of the story didn't you understand?

[Monte Carlo]

 

I personally don't think games are a great medium for storytelling...

 

You, sir, are on the money. If only games developers were as sensible.

[alanschu]

I personally prefer video games as a medium for story telling. Different strokes for different folks, and all.

[Orogun01]

I personally prefer video games as a medium for story telling. Different strokes for different folks, and all.

I have thought of the best way of convincing folks of my point, so I devised a situation to illustrate why games aren't a good medium for storytelling.

 

I would ask the person what their favorite movie was or what movie they are really excited about, after they answer I would say that we should watch that movie. On said viewing I will place a Simon Game in front of them and I will make sure that I have the remote. After that at any pivotal point in the film I will pause it or stop it and tell them that to keep watching it the must beat the Simon Game a undefined number of times.

 

At least if I can't convince them I will have some fun at their expense. 

[Zoraptor]

To me, Binfinite makes a great first impression, and I suspect that is enough for some to proclaim it as brilliant.

Probably, it was certainly the case for Bioshock (1*). Levine's games' stories have a certain amount of depth and a certain amount of genuine craft about them, and are in a medium in which most commonly neither is present. In that sort of context anything with some competency about it stands out because it is, relatively speaking, very good even if it is not good in an 'absolute' sense- ie it is one of the better examples, until you start comparing it to the best storytelling in other media. Or start looking at it in detail, though it certainly isn't alone in falling apart under those circumstances. Personally, I still prefer the Thief and System Shock 2 story lines of his as they weren't so encumbered by Ken Levine, video game auteur as opposed to Ken Levine, writer.

 

*If you're going to skewer a fundamental trope of gaming (the lack of true player agency) then you need to do something, anything to subvert it once pointed out. Going back to 'obey the voice in your head, may as well be with added would you kindly' after making such a point of it... wasted opportunity.

 

It's also ironic, because video games is one of the few media in which you can have elements of choice in how the story plays out even if it does at the end boil down to following branches in a script rather than writing your own story. That is the big advantage video games have as a storytelling medium- interactivity, player agency- and that is the thing that should be taken advantage of. It often isn't because it's hard to do and takes more work than trying to shoehorn in a merely 'interactive' movie like script.

[GhostofAnakin]

Great writing can keep me playing in the face of even horrible mechanics,

 

Seconded.  It's why a lot of my favorite games are known more for the strength of their story than their gameplay.