Obsidian's ideas for a new Kickstarter (3rd Part RPS interview)

[Sensuki]

No. The biggest thing will remain preproduction and most of the team is not involved in that. They can work on preproduction for the new game while the main body(all the programers and so on) work on the expansion or finishing Pillars of Eternity.

I'm not they'll be able to drop people from the Eternity team actually, during post-pro.

 

Kaz and Polina are needed for portraits & paintovers, UI & menus - so both the concept artists have to stay at least for some of the time.

 

Josh will need to stay on for balancing stuff and overall vision, he's the main guy behind this.

 

All of the programmers have their own little jobs - Tim handles the class implementations and the stronghold, Adam handles the 'engine stuff', Steve the gameplay and AI. They'll all need to be there handling bug fixing.

 

Mark Bremerkamp will be animating ... forever.

 

Dimitri and James will also be on full time right until the end, polishing all the models.

 

Hector and Sean (& co) will need to be on right until the end to fix up all the areas.

 

Bobby and Jorge will be adding/tweaking content (and the design interns prob)

 

And the writers will be writing companions, adding reactivity and polishing dialogues right up until the end as well.

 

So yeah I don't really know who they could drop really, besides a few interns. They've got A LOT of work to do. We payed for an extensive post-production as well.

 

 

What he possibly means is that the pre-production team will be a different team entirely, and they will transition some of the Eternity team over to the new Kickstarter, and keep some (Josh, others) for PE to train more staff up on Unity and the new way of doing things.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Sensuki

[lolaldanee]

I have to say they could not have reduced my interest any more than by mentioning Skyrim of all games, lifeless generic cliche game, lacking almost any form of atmosphere, that it is

Open world games by default need more money than almost anything else, if they are to be any good, since you need to do pretty much everything that you do for a more linear game, and lots of optional stuff on top of that. Not exactly the kind of stuff you do with small kickstarter budgets.

The other option is to go for a more procederal generated sandbox style of game, but why the hell would the company with the best track reckord of writen dialog on the planet do a sandbox game, that doesn't focus on anything they are good at?

 

I don't have a problem with epesodic format though, in fact, I even like the idea, whatever the genre may be

Edited December 14, 2013 by lolaldanee

[GhoulishVisage]

Well, that was disappointing.
Basically none of it was anything I would be interested in.
 
 

What I’m trying to figure out is, how could we make something that is more like a Skyrim for PC – forget console for now – with the engine we made in Unity for Eternity?

 

Urgh.

 

 

How much would it cost? Would it make sense for it to be episodic?

Argh.
 

“There’s something we’re talking about that I think would be really cool, but it’s not an original property,” he says. “It’s a licensed property. But it’s not Alpha Protocol! It’s something we can still do a ton of creative stuff with, though.

Why? Why not have a property that you're free to do whatever you want with, and that you wholly own?

All in all not something I'm immediately inclined to give money to.

[Osvir]

@lolaldanee & others: Skyrim is a concept. I don't think they mean to make a Skyrim clone in some Viking-esque territory with Dragons and a somewhat weak plot. But Skyrim is an easy reference to make when you're talking about Open World environments. I mean, you probably do it, I do it, many people on this forum does it. So why is it such a problem when Obsidian suddenly mentions it?

Let's not forget that many people also enjoy Skyrim (A LOT).

I am somewhat sad that it's an already licensed IP however, because an original & new IP is so much more exciting (both for Obsidian & fans). The benefits of an already licensed IP is that you don't need to make everything from scratch, and I bet Obsidian might be a little burnt out on that since they made Eternity from scratch.

Not to forget the mention that Obsidian would probably color any new IP with lots of recent ideas they had and used for and in Eternity. So there's a big chance, if they make an original IP, that Eternity and this Mystery Kickstarter (thus far) would have very much in common and colored in a similar way. Unless, of course, they choose to use an entirely new crew for it.

[forgottenlor]

I'm actually very surprised they mention Skyrim as a model as well for a number of reasons. First, Obsidian will never generate enough revenue from a Kickstarter to produce anything with the budget and development time of a Skyrim, or for that matter any true AAA game. Betheda's games may be lacking in RPG mechanics and good writing, but from voice acting to graphics everything is professionally done and that takes a big investment. Skyrim was in development for like 4-5 years as well.

Second they will have to put a real spin on any open world action oriented RPG if they want it kickstarted. Most things that get kickstarted are either retro games or very unusual takes on current genres.

On the other hand on all Chris Avelone's interviews on narratives, he has been saying that games with linear narratives are not as memorable as those with lots of freedom (i.e. open world) but with lots of well written npcs.

[common swift]

I am somewhat sad that it's an already licensed IP however, because an original & new IP is so much more exciting (both for Obsidian & fans). The benefits of an already licensed IP is that you don't need to make everything from scratch, and I bet Obsidian might be a little burnt out on that since they made Eternity from scratch.

I really hope they don't use a licensed IP. In the past they always talked about all those different ideas. They should use those instead. They even had some canceled games. While the artwork etc. belongs to the publishers, most settings/quests could be reused. I would love to see Obsidian's take on a (survival-) horror game (see seven dwarfs, alien crucible).

[Wintersong]

So the Eternity team would roll over to the new non-Eternity Kickstarter? wat ? What about the Expansion ... and the sequel

 

Can't say I'm interested in the 'more for the masses' ideas. I'd love to see Josh get a chance to do his historical RPG, even if it was just a small one. I'd also like to see a Wuxia-style RPG (Ancient China style). An Obsidian space opera / sci-fi would also be interesting depending on what the concept was. Can't say I was too big of a fan of that Backspace one or whatever.

 

Definitely keep the 2D background style though pls :azncuteface:

The expansion should require less people to work with and the sequel.. let's not rush things, huh? Annual "Call of Eternity"?

 

I daydream of Aliens but Star Wars would be nice too. But any sci-fi would be sweet. Getting a sci-fi equivalent of Baldur's Gate like game would be awesome. Some non western fantasy is a nice option too (why no one makes a Legend of the Five Rings cRPG? ).

[Monte Carlo]

What struck me most about this interview is how all or most of it seems like stuff suited to pitching to publishers. Everyone's eager to replicate the successes of Skyrim, so

 

1. It seems like Obsidian should be able to find a publisher to fund such a game.
2. Even if they get rejected by everybody, there's not much reason for us gamers to care since we'll have plenty of choice in this genre as everyone seeks to make a Skyrim killer. The Witcher 3 in particular will probably be better than anything Obsidian attempts with a Kickstarter budget.

The same applies to a lesser extent for licensed titles and episodic gaming. If you're going to ask the crowd for money, give us something different from what publishers are expecting.

 

I agree with your general point, but you have to remember that you can make more money with a successful product without a publisher than with one.

 

So why wouldn't they go for a commercially appealing pitch?

[MotelOK]

I don't think a game like Skyrim would work with an isometric viewpoint. A lot of Skyrim's charm (for myself) comes from exploration. Exploring a world from an isometric viewpoint really isn't as thrilling as doing it in first/third person. There's only so much detail you can put in a world at an isometric viewpoint.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I actually think there's potential in an episodic RPG with high reactivity. Can't look up the consequences beforehand, the reduced length of the individual episodes encourages experimentation and replayability, etc. etc.

[Wombat]

Although Feargus is CEO, somehow, I don't find him reliable source.  That said, no external IP, or even trying to compete against AAA games, please.  Considering that we have relatively small denominator for core RPG games, the cost for each fan is likely to end up quite high.  For example, I didn't know much about the possible cost of 2D graphic in general till their Kickstarter campaign and we seem to end up paying more for it.  Since I'm not interested in AAA games, I still have room for paying but I wanted Obsidian to establish a foundation to produce other RPGs for core fans.  Of course, to establish a healthy business model or to expand the denominator, I don't complain of some implementations on PE to ease the learning curve (not the difficulty!) as long as they don't diminish reading/tactical gameplay.  However, please don't bite off more than you can chew.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Wombat

[santanzchild]

Episodic and Open World are not as contrary as everyone in this thread seems to think they would be.  If you look at the GTA series of games They do a very good job of giving you the illusion of being able to go anywhere while keeping you locked on each of the individual areas till they are ready to let you progress there.  In Liberty City they did this by having an accident on the bridge that shuts it down.  This gives a relevant reason for you to be stuck in the area that you start the game in and allows the developer to control your exploration while still giving the illusion of an open world.

[paradox-fi]

Episodic content may work in some genres, but I really can't see how it would be good in role-playing games. Sure, the financial benefits are obvious, sales of the previous episode help fund the next one, but the content will suffer. In my opinion, a story should be told, from start to finish, in one game. Sequels are fine, but I really dislike small portions of additional content. Even expansions make me wary.

 

I really hope Obsidian will be able to finance full games, instead of small slices of games.

[Darth Trethon]

 

No. The biggest thing will remain preproduction and most of the team is not involved in that. They can work on preproduction for the new game while the main body(all the programers and so on) work on the expansion or finishing Pillars of Eternity.

I'm not they'll be able to drop people from the Eternity team actually, during post-pro.

 

Kaz and Polina are needed for portraits & paintovers, UI & menus - so both the concept artists have to stay at least for some of the time.

 

Josh will need to stay on for balancing stuff and overall vision, he's the main guy behind this.

 

All of the programmers have their own little jobs - Tim handles the class implementations and the stronghold, Adam handles the 'engine stuff', Steve the gameplay and AI. They'll all need to be there handling bug fixing.

 

Mark Bremerkamp will be animating ... forever.

 

Dimitri and James will also be on full time right until the end, polishing all the models.

 

Hector and Sean (& co) will need to be on right until the end to fix up all the areas.

 

Bobby and Jorge will be adding/tweaking content (and the design interns prob)

 

And the writers will be writing companions, adding reactivity and polishing dialogues right up until the end as well.

 

So yeah I don't really know who they could drop really, besides a few interns. They've got A LOT of work to do. We payed for an extensive post-production as well.

 

 

What he possibly means is that the pre-production team will be a different team entirely, and they will transition some of the Eternity team over to the new Kickstarter, and keep some (Josh, others) for PE to train more staff up on Unity and the new way of doing things.

 

A LOT of those are finalized before full production even starts....conept art, definitely writing and character creation etc, etc, etc. Plus they have teams that will free up from other games too. South Park will be done pretty soon as it releases in March and shouldn't see any more delays. Not to mention that by late production a lot of other things are done....like animations and game mechanics(including AI). The game is supposed to be out in late 2014 so by March-April they should definitely be able to get crunching on another game.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Darth Trethon

[Osvir]

Episodic content may work in some genres, but I really can't see how it would be good in role-playing games. Sure, the financial benefits are obvious, sales of the previous episode help fund the next one, but the content will suffer. In my opinion, a story should be told, from start to finish, in one game. Sequels are fine, but I really dislike small portions of additional content. Even expansions make me wary.

 

I really hope Obsidian will be able to finance full games, instead of small slices of games.

Did you read santanzchild's post above yours? Cus he gives a perfect example where the content actually does not suffer for it, and could've been handled in a sort of "Episodic Release" dealio.

 

EDIT: However, something I just realized... an open world RPG released in Episodes could suffer from one thing and that is Power Gaming.

 

- Game releases with 1 Episode (Epside 1). I finish this Episode in one weekend... but then what? I have to wait of course but... suddenly I have hours to spend in this first Episode to kill time with and find easter eggs and level up my character substantially. There would have to be some sort of "cliffhanger" or some sort of thing to signal the Player "There's no more content at this time" in an immersive fashion (so that the content indeed does not suffer).

- IF I am allowed to power level during Episode 1 and when Episode 2 comes out, I'd run through it like a rampaging train without any worries. Thus, content suffers.

 

Something to consider @Obsidian.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Osvir

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Episodic Skyrim 2D.

[Darth Trethon]

 

Episodic content may work in some genres, but I really can't see how it would be good in role-playing games. Sure, the financial benefits are obvious, sales of the previous episode help fund the next one, but the content will suffer. In my opinion, a story should be told, from start to finish, in one game. Sequels are fine, but I really dislike small portions of additional content. Even expansions make me wary.

 

I really hope Obsidian will be able to finance full games, instead of small slices of games.

Did you read santanzchild's post above yours? Cus he gives a perfect example where the content actually does not suffer for it, and could've been handled in a sort of "Episodic Release" dealio.

 

EDIT: However, something I just realized... an open world RPG released in Episodes could suffer from one thing and that is Power Gaming.

 

- Game releases with 1 Episode (Epside 1). I finish this Episode in one weekend... but then what? I have to wait of course but... suddenly I have hours to spend in this first Episode to kill time with and find easter eggs and level up my character substantially. There would have to be some sort of "cliffhanger" or some sort of thing to signal the Player "There's no more content at this time" in an immersive fashion (so that the content indeed does not suffer).

- IF I am allowed to power level during Episode 1 and when Episode 2 comes out, I'd run through it like a rampaging train without any worries. Thus, content suffers.

 

Something to consider @Obsidian.

 

Episodic content is garbage. I'm not backing it and would never buy anything less than a complete game.

 

Episodic garbage means they've mismanaged funds and are hoping to complete the game with funds from a piece of a game that in essence puts the entire game in danger of never seeing an end or getting very poor quality completion. I don't care what they say or promise, the moment the word "episodic" comes in I am out and that's the end of that nonsense.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Darth Trethon

[Osvir]

Episodic content is garbage. I'm not backing it and would never buy anything less than a complete game.

 

We stand by two different opinions here, and I respect yours, but I don't think it is garbage. I am curious though, where do you get your opinion and experience from? Why do you think episodic content is garbage if you've never experienced it? And if you have experienced it, which game that released episodic content made you feel that way?

Edited December 14, 2013 by Osvir

[Wombat]

Both GTA and Fallout:New Vegas can be called "sandbox" games but, what about choice and consequences, which is one of the key element of Obsidian games?  To my eyes, what you can get so far for episodic release is either narrative focused games with choice and consequences (e.g. Walking Dead series) or GTA style open-world sandbox games (without C&C).  In fact, all the DLCs of FOV was done as separate and isolated areas.  There might be a way to do it properly but I'm very skeptic about it.

 

In any case, Feargus needs to feed his employees.  Then, their success depends on how Obsidian as a company will do it and so be it.  As a fan, I'll be most likely to put my pledge on humble projects with smaller and talented teams.

[Darth Trethon]

 

Episodic content is garbage. I'm not backing it and would never buy anything less than a complete game.

 

We stand by two different opinions here, and I respect yours, but I don't think it is garbage. I am curious though, where do you get your opinion and experience from? Why do you think episodic content is garbage if you've never experienced it? And if you have experienced it, which game that released episodic content made you feel that way?

 

Episodic garbage means they've mismanaged funds and are hoping to complete the game with funds from a piece of a game that in essence puts the entire game in danger of never seeing an end or getting very poor quality completion. I don't care what they say or promise, the moment the word "episodic" comes in I am out and that's the end of that nonsense.

 

Example: look at the Peeny Arcade game....episodic, was shut down after episode 2.

[Osvir]

 

 

Episodic content is garbage. I'm not backing it and would never buy anything less than a complete game.

 

We stand by two different opinions here, and I respect yours, but I don't think it is garbage. I am curious though, where do you get your opinion and experience from? Why do you think episodic content is garbage if you've never experienced it? And if you have experienced it, which game that released episodic content made you feel that way?

 

Episodic garbage means they've mismanaged funds and are hoping to complete the game with funds from a piece of a game that in essence puts the entire game in danger of never seeing an end or getting very poor quality completion. I don't care what they say or promise, the moment the word "episodic" comes in I am out and that's the end of that nonsense.

 

Example: look at the Peeny Arcade game....episodic, was shut down after episode 2.

Penny Arcade is 4 episodes bro. Episode 3 is actually really good (Episode 4 was a bit of a disappointment, I haven't even finished it). I do not think it's the best example to make either, in fact I think it's a really bad example to make, mostly because of the nature of the game (it is a comical and, honestly, kind of below average game with below average mechanics) and that Penny Arcade aren't even video game developers (they are closer to be "journalists" and webcomic comedy), which means they hired a low-cost studio to make games for them. I remember them writing an article on their site saying something like "Video games costs a lot to make" and explaining why Episode 3 might never see the light of day (Thanks to Zeboyd, it did, in a different and much better format).

 

No ill againt the developers of the two first Penny Arcade games but... they were pretty bland in comparison to many more serious games.

 

They made me laugh, chuckle and facepalm in a comedic fashion, which is the exact reason why I played them. Not because I thought "THESE GAMES ARE SO GOED!", but because I support Penny Arcade and wanted some light entertainment.

 

If Obsidian, or BioWare, or maybe Blizzard, would release episodic games (Oh.. wait! StarCraft II! Scratch that last one), then I imagine the game itself with it's plot would carry itself very well. Regardless if it is episodic- or full game release.

 

EDIT: I suspect you haven't played StarCraft II or that it isn't your genre even to begin with so *shrug* really~ seeing as it isn't a complete game and all by your standards.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Osvir

[santanzchild]

 

 

 

Episodic content is garbage. I'm not backing it and would never buy anything less than a complete game.

 

We stand by two different opinions here, and I respect yours, but I don't think it is garbage. I am curious though, where do you get your opinion and experience from? Why do you think episodic content is garbage if you've never experienced it? And if you have experienced it, which game that released episodic content made you feel that way?

 

Episodic garbage means they've mismanaged funds and are hoping to complete the game with funds from a piece of a game that in essence puts the entire game in danger of never seeing an end or getting very poor quality completion. I don't care what they say or promise, the moment the word "episodic" comes in I am out and that's the end of that nonsense.

 

Example: look at the Peeny Arcade game....episodic, was shut down after episode 2.

Penny Arcade is 4 episodes bro. Episode 3 is actually really good (Episode 4 was a bit of a disappointment, I haven't even finished it). I do not think it's the best example to make either, in fact I think it's a really bad example to make, mostly because of the nature of the game (it is a comical and, honestly, kind of below average game with below average mechanics) and that Penny Arcade aren't even video game developers (they are closer to be "journalists" and webcomic comedy), which means they hired a low-cost studio to make games for them. I remember them writing an article on their site saying something like "Video games costs a lot to make" and explaining why Episode 3 might never see the light of day (Thanks to Zeboid, it did, in a different and much better format).

 

No ill againt the developers of the two first Penny Arcade games but... they were pretty bland in comparison to many more serious games.

 

They made me laugh, chuckle and facepalm in a comedic fashion, which is the exact reason why I played them. Not because I thought "THESE GAMES ARE SO GOED!", but because I support Penny Arcade and wanted some light entertainment.

 

If Obsidian, or BioWare, or maybe Blizzard, would release episodic games (Oh.. wait! StarCraft II! Scratch that last one), then I imagine the game itself with it's plot would carry itself very well. Regardless if it is episodic- or full game release.

 

EDIT: I suspect you haven't played StarCraft II or that it isn't your genre even to begin with so *shrug* really~ seeing as it isn't a complete game and all by your standards.

 

 

Dont forget Sam and Max, Strong Bad, Tales of Monkey Island, Wallace and Grommit, Half Life 2, The Walking Dead and Sin...

 

All episodic all great games some have not been completed some will never be completed but all a great time none the less.  Dont take me the wrong way people I am not all for episodic all the time but for a small developer or a cash strapped one it can be just as good if not better then releasing one full game.  

 

Walking dead is a perfect example of this where they release an episode and then take what the players have done and run with it.  It can make the world feel much more alive.

[Darth Trethon]

 

 

 

Episodic content is garbage. I'm not backing it and would never buy anything less than a complete game.

 

We stand by two different opinions here, and I respect yours, but I don't think it is garbage. I am curious though, where do you get your opinion and experience from? Why do you think episodic content is garbage if you've never experienced it? And if you have experienced it, which game that released episodic content made you feel that way?

 

Episodic garbage means they've mismanaged funds and are hoping to complete the game with funds from a piece of a game that in essence puts the entire game in danger of never seeing an end or getting very poor quality completion. I don't care what they say or promise, the moment the word "episodic" comes in I am out and that's the end of that nonsense.

 

Example: look at the Peeny Arcade game....episodic, was shut down after episode 2.

Penny Arcade is 4 episodes bro. Episode 3 is actually really good (Episode 4 was a bit of a disappointment, I haven't even finished it). I do not think it's the best example to make either, in fact I think it's a really bad example to make, mostly because of the nature of the game (it is a comical and, honestly, kind of below average game with below average mechanics) and that Penny Arcade aren't even video game developers (they are closer to be "journalists" and webcomic comedy), which means they hired a low-cost studio to make games for them. I remember them writing an article on their site saying something like "Video games costs a lot to make" and explaining why Episode 3 might never see the light of day (Thanks to Zeboid, it did, in a different and much better format).

 

No ill againt the developers of the two first Penny Arcade games but... they were pretty bland in comparison to many more serious games.

 

They made me laugh, chuckle and facepalm in a comedic fashion, which is the exact reason why I played them. Not because I thought "THESE GAMES ARE SO GOED!", but because I support Penny Arcade and wanted some light entertainment.

 

If Obsidian, or BioWare, or maybe Blizzard, would release episodic games (Oh.. wait! StarCraft II! Scratch that last one), then I imagine the game itself with it's plot would carry itself very well. Regardless if it is episodic- or full game release.

 

EDIT: I suspect you haven't played StarCraft II or that it isn't your genre even to begin with so *shrug* really~ seeing as it isn't a complete game and all by your standards.

 

I am aware of Episodes 3 and 4 but look how the quality dropped to complete crap....they'd be better off if never made. Beyond that the point stands....sales talk, it doesn't matter who is making the episodic crap....if it doesn't  sell it WILL be shut down, there's no what, if, ands or buts about it. Especially for a crowdfunded episodic game.

 

I also look at another kickstarter hit that dropped into grossly missmanaging funds: Double Fine Adventure....was backed for 800% of the original asking and now plan to release half a game to finish the second half using the profits.....but what if it doesn't sell? Then the backers are boned and left with half a game after backing the thing for 3.3 million. Sorry, no episodic garage for me.

[Osvir]

I am aware of Episodes 3 and 4 but look how the quality dropped to complete crap....they'd be better off if never made. Beyond that the point stands....sales talk, it doesn't matter who is making the episodic crap....if it doesn't  sell it WILL be shut down, there's no what, if, ands or buts about it. Especially for a crowdfunded episodic game.

 

I also look at another kickstarter hit that dropped into grossly missmanaging funds: Double Fine Adventure....was backed for 800% of the original asking and now plan to release half a game to finish the second half using the profits.....but what if it doesn't sell? Then the backers are boned and left with half a game after backing the thing for 3.3 million. Sorry, no episodic garage for me.

 

Hah! Don't tell me what I like in video games. Episode 3, in my opinion, is the best Penny Arcade Rain Slick game. It is the one part that is furthest from "crap", in my opinion. It made me laugh out loud and I enjoyed it a lot. The combat was fast-paced and the story made me just want to get more story, one of those games that kept me playing cus I just wanted more. It was good fun to play.

 

So no, I don't think "they'd be better off if never made", cus if they had never been made then I would never have enjoyed Episode 3 (which I think is the best in the series).

 

P.S. Final Fantasy VI is the best Final Fantasy. Now you should know what I think about "looks" in video games (for your indulgance: I don't give a damn)

[teknoman2]

here's what i would like. PE is set in a fantasy world with a developement level similar to our 17th-18th century. how about for the next KS they move time in the same world forward? puting the new game in a time similar to what our 22nd century may be for a cyberpunk experience, or push it to 25th century for a space opera. thinking about it, they could even use late 19th century for a steampunk look