Nelson Mandela, dead at 95

[BruceVC]

Cheers Greet Mugabe At Mandela Funeral

 

ZIMBABWEAN President Robert Mugabe received a standing ovation at the funeral of former South African President Nelson Mandela while the country's president Jacob Zuma was booed.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201312101528.html

http://www.newsdzezimbabwe.co.uk/2013/12/mugabe-cheered-zuma-booed-in-soweto.html

http://ethiopianewsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67817#p412315

 

Mandela librate South African after bitter struggle.but the libration not completed,he kept home work for the next generation so called diplomatic solution .Mugabe undermine the diplomatic solution allows his nation to march for the final goal

Looks like these people IRL not so easy can be fooled by colonizators as International media try represent.

 

I think everything is only began in SA, real fight begin in future.

 

Its irrelevant the raucous applause Mugabe received. He is one of the last of a dying breed of African dictators. His only legacy will be the fact that he destroyed the Zim economy. His policies won't be followed in other African countries as they are tantamount to economic suicide

[Malcador]

Nah, more like no one wants the blame of hiring him, so is covering their ass

[Amentep]

 

Can't really get along with a chap that needs a team of professionals to tell him how to dress incorrectly. Sorry guys, let's not fall out xx

 

Ever since Nixon sweated like a stuck pig on national TV in the 1960 debate, I'm pretty sure every President has a team of consultants getting them dressed.

 

 

 

IIRC Nixon had a team telling him to wear make-up on TV so he didn't look ghostly and sweaty but he refused to listen to them...so...moral of the story make sure your consultants are good and that you listen to them.

[Raithe]

And on the other side of matters..

 

The deaf community is in an uproar over the deaf interpreter who was apparently making it up as he went along.

 

cbsnews - Interpreter for Deaf accused of faking it

 

 

The national director of the Deaf Federation of South Africa says a man who provided sign language interpretation on stage for Nelson Mandela's memorial service, attended by scores of heads of state, was a "fake."

Asked about the claim by The Associated Press, South Africa's government said it is preparing a statement. 

Bruno Druchen says the unidentified man seen around the world on television next to leaders such as President Obama "was moving his hands around but there was no meaning in what he used his hands for."

Delphin Hlungwane, of the Deaf Association of South Africa, tells CBS News the interpreter isn't registered with the association or the South African Translator’s Institute.

 

Johan Blaauw, vice chairperson for the South African Translator's Institute, also had strong words on the interpreter’s performance.

“This person was not interpreting, he was making it up,” Blaauw told CBS News. “There was no message in it.  He was a complete phony.  It wasn't sign language.”

Blaauw said the ANC has used this alleged interpreter before, and that he wasn’t sure why he got the job.

“Maybe it's nepotism,” Blaauw said.

 

South African parliament member Wilma Newhoudt, a member of the ruling party, also said the man communicated nothing with his hand and arm movements.

She tweeted, "Shame on this male so called interpreter on the stage. What is he signing? He knows that the deaf cannot vocally boo him off. Shame on him!"

Both Druchen and Newhoudt are deaf. The AP interviewed both Druchen and Newhoudt by telephone using an interpreter.

[BruceVC]

 

And on the other side of matters..

 

The deaf community is in an uproar over the deaf interpreter who was apparently making it up as he went along.

 

cbsnews - Interpreter for Deaf accused of faking it

 

 

The national director of the Deaf Federation of South Africa says a man who provided sign language interpretation on stage for Nelson Mandela's memorial service, attended by scores of heads of state, was a "fake."

Asked about the claim by The Associated Press, South Africa's government said it is preparing a statement. 

Bruno Druchen says the unidentified man seen around the world on television next to leaders such as President Obama "was moving his hands around but there was no meaning in what he used his hands for."

Delphin Hlungwane, of the Deaf Association of South Africa, tells CBS News the interpreter isn't registered with the association or the South African Translator’s Institute.

 

Johan Blaauw, vice chairperson for the South African Translator's Institute, also had strong words on the interpreter’s performance.

“This person was not interpreting, he was making it up,” Blaauw told CBS News. “There was no message in it.  He was a complete phony.  It wasn't sign language.”

Blaauw said the ANC has used this alleged interpreter before, and that he wasn’t sure why he got the job.

“Maybe it's nepotism,” Blaauw said.

 

South African parliament member Wilma Newhoudt, a member of the ruling party, also said the man communicated nothing with his hand and arm movements.

She tweeted, "Shame on this male so called interpreter on the stage. What is he signing? He knows that the deaf cannot vocally boo him off. Shame on him!"

Both Druchen and Newhoudt are deaf. The AP interviewed both Druchen and Newhoudt by telephone using an interpreter.

 

 

Yes we have been discussing this on this very thread

 

But thanks for the additional information

[Raithe]

That's what I get for multitasking...  

[BruceVC]

That's what I get for multitasking...  

 

Well thanks for contributing towards the conversation, that's more important than not being aware a topic has been discussed IMO

[Raithe]

I was paying attention to the annoyance of Kanye and missed that start point of the fake..

[BruceVC]

So the latest on this false interpretor. So apparently he has translated in various other political events, but that hasn't been confirmed. Also he is suffering from schizophrenia so some people are actually defending him on a prominent talk show that I listen to. I don't see how you can defend him because if the issue is because he is mentally unbalanced that is even worse, he could have attacked any of the distinguished guests that he was translating for !!!!

[BruceVC]

I have just heard an interview with this controversial interpretor on the radio. Firstly he says he has been the interpretor at various events and if his ability to sign was in question why did no one raise it before. But he also admits he is getting treatment for schizophrenia

 

So if I had to predict the outcome its going to be determined that he can't sign at all and he has imagined all these events that he has worked at. That's the only logical outcome. So watch this space for details

[GhoulishVisage]

So the latest on this false interpretor. So apparently he has translated in various other political events, but that hasn't been confirmed. Also he is suffering from schizophrenia so some people are actually defending him on a prominent talk show that I listen to. I don't see how you can defend him because if the issue is because he is mentally unbalanced that is even worse, he could have attacked any of the distinguished guests that he was translating for !!!!

 

As someone related to a schizophrenic I have to say your post is extremely ill-educated.

[BruceVC]

 

So the latest on this false interpretor. So apparently he has translated in various other political events, but that hasn't been confirmed. Also he is suffering from schizophrenia so some people are actually defending him on a prominent talk show that I listen to. I don't see how you can defend him because if the issue is because he is mentally unbalanced that is even worse, he could have attacked any of the distinguished guests that he was translating for !!!!

 

As someone related to a schizophrenic I have to say your post is extremely ill-educated.

 

 

Instead of making a point with no substance maybe you can elaborate a little more?

 

Firstly this is not an attack by any means on mentally ill people and I also have several family members who suffer from one of more mental ailment, but that's not the point. The reality is this. The interpreter now admits he had a schizophrenic attack on stage. This happens, I'm not sure if he was taking his medication. But during an interview this morning on the radio he was asked "so looking back at your interpretation what do you think?"

He basically stated that " he didn't see anything wrong"

 

We know for a fact that he wasn't signing at all, basically it was gibberish. If he still thinks what he did was sign language then he is delusional at the moment and needs immediate psychiatric help. This is irrefutable and I fail to see how anyone can argue anything different.

 

Also the question of the security of the various important delegates is something we need to consider. What do you think would have happened if during Obamas speech he had been attacked on stage in front of the whole world by the interpreter during his schizophrenic episode that he admits he had ?

 

[Walsingham]

Well, the man has balls, I'll give him that.

 

I don't believe he's bloody schizophrenic, just because he says he is. And I'm alarmed at the notion we just have to take his word for it. I'm fairly certain that criminal courts are very used to judging sanity or insanity.

 

I believe we'll find out he can't fake insanity any better than he can fake sign language.

[Amentep]

 

 

So the latest on this false interpretor. So apparently he has translated in various other political events, but that hasn't been confirmed. Also he is suffering from schizophrenia so some people are actually defending him on a prominent talk show that I listen to. I don't see how you can defend him because if the issue is because he is mentally unbalanced that is even worse, he could have attacked any of the distinguished guests that he was translating for !!!!

 

As someone related to a schizophrenic I have to say your post is extremely ill-educated.

 

Instead of making a point with no substance maybe you can elaborate a little more?

 

At a guess, I'd say he's objecting to the characterization of a schizophrenic as someone who is liable to flip out and attack people at a moments notice.  While in my understanding of schizophrenia I would say it is true that there are paranoid type classifications in schizophrenia and that it is possible for people suffering from paranoid delusions of persecution or outside control to want to lash out at others, the data as I recall shows a schizophrenic is - in general - much more likely to kill themselves than attack others.

[Malcador]

So the latest on this false interpretor. So apparently he has translated in various other political events, but that hasn't been confirmed. Also he is suffering from schizophrenia so some people are actually defending him on a prominent talk show that I listen to. I don't see how you can defend him because if the issue is because he is mentally unbalanced that is even worse, he could have attacked any of the distinguished guests that he was translating for !!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fzRSE_p1Ys

 

Looks like him.  Him being schizophrenic is probably a host of BS to cover his ass and try to get some sympathy.

 

Also as for him attacking people..

 

 

"What happened that day, I see angels come to the stadium ... I start realizing that the problem is here. And the problem, I don't know the attack of this problem, how will it come. Sometimes I get violent on that place. Sometimes I will see things chasing me," Jantjie said.

"I was in a very difficult position," he added. "And remember those people, the president and everyone, they were armed, there was armed police around me. If I start panicking I'll start being a problem. I have to deal with this in a manner so that I mustn't embarrass my country."

Asked how often he had become violent, he said "a lot" while declining to provide details.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mandela-fake-interpreter-thamsanqa-jantjie-i-was-hallucinating-1.2460912

Edited December 12, 2013 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

 

So the latest on this false interpretor. So apparently he has translated in various other political events, but that hasn't been confirmed. Also he is suffering from schizophrenia so some people are actually defending him on a prominent talk show that I listen to. I don't see how you can defend him because if the issue is because he is mentally unbalanced that is even worse, he could have attacked any of the distinguished guests that he was translating for !!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fzRSE_p1Ys

 

Looks like him.  Him being schizophrenic is probably a host of BS to cover his ass and try to get some sympathy.

 

Also as for him attacking people..

 

 

"What happened that day, I see angels come to the stadium ... I start realizing that the problem is here. And the problem, I don't know the attack of this problem, how will it come. Sometimes I get violent on that place. Sometimes I will see things chasing me," Jantjie said.

"I was in a very difficult position," he added. "And remember those people, the president and everyone, they were armed, there was armed police around me. If I start panicking I'll start being a problem. I have to deal with this in a manner so that I mustn't embarrass my country."

Asked how often he had become violent, he said "a lot" while declining to provide details.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mandela-fake-interpreter-thamsanqa-jantjie-i-was-hallucinating-1.2460912

 

 

I tend to agree, I don't think he suffered a schizophrenic attack at all. His story has dramatically changed as the day has gone on and he is getting more and more attention and criticism. If I had to guess someone advised him to say " tell everyone you had a schizophrenic attack, that will at least get you some sympathy around this calamitous situation"

 

The best way to settle this is to do an assessment in the next few days to see if he can sign at all. If he can't he is a charlatan and should be prosecuted. If he can sign then the question of his medication and his treatment needs to be addressed. This is not the first time he has signed incorrectly, but this is the first time its been done in such a public arena

 

I have just heard on the radio that the police arrived at his house  to escort him to a psychiatric hospital for a medical review. Lets see what transpires

[Walsingham]

He'd have been far better off just saying that the stress got to him. He got overwhelmed by the occasion and failed. No-one really understands stress, and everyone reacts differently.

 

However, being a proper charlatan he decided to opt for something provably false.

 

I have to agree with other posters that choosing a much maligned disorder and trying to hide under it is not just pathetic, it's appalling and cowardly.

[Meshugger]

Well, i for one, thinks that the guy is a complete...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vgQalXaIxs

[Walsingham]

The company that provided the interpreter has 'vanished'

 

Hilariously, the minister appears to be defending her department by saying that the firm had been providing substandard services for some time. That's not an excuse. That means YOU should have known not to use them for an event with huge exposure.

 

The Daily Telegraph has video and an analysis of what he was doing. It's just completely pantomime.

[Meshugger]

I think it is high time for South Africa to surrender all their administrative personnel in favor for the Germans or the Japanese for 4 years. I do not think that they will learn anything, but atleast it would embarass them thouroughly.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Meshugger

[GhoulishVisage]

At a guess, I'd say he's objecting to the characterization of a schizophrenic as someone who is liable to flip out and attack people at a moments notice.  While in my understanding of schizophrenia I would say it is true that there are paranoid type classifications in schizophrenia and that it is possible for people suffering from paranoid delusions of persecution or outside control to want to lash out at others, the data as I recall shows a schizophrenic is - in general - much more likely to kill themselves than attack others.

 

Yes, thank you Amentep. I had to leave on short notice this morning or I would have elaborated.

Schizophrenia and schizophrenics are often misrepresented as violent and dangerous to those around them, liable to lash out at any time, but dangerous schizophrenics are in fact a minority, roughly equal in percentage to dangerous people in the general population.

Mental health is poorly understood by the populace today despite the fact that there's an abundance of information out there.

Here's a short article on some schizophrenia myths.

 

Sorry Bruce, didn't mean to come off as snappish, I was just in a bit of a hurry.

 

 

 

Back on topic, I thought this was amusing:

 

 

Anyhow, sorry about the soap-boxing.

Edited December 12, 2013 by GhoulishVisage

[Malcador]

Gets funnier and funnier -  http://www.enca.com/south-africa/interpreter

 

 

eNCA's investigations have found that Thamsanqa Jantjie, who is being treated for schizophrenia, has also faced rape (1994), theft (1995), housebreaking (1997), malicious damage to property (1998), murder, attempted murder and kidnapping (2003) charges.  

Many of the charges brought against him were dropped, allegedly because he was mentally unfit to stand trial.

Jantjie was acquitted on the rape charge, but he was convicted of theft for which he was sentenced to three years in prison. It’s unclear if he ever spent time in jail.

Court records reveal that the 2003 murder, attempted murder and kidnapping case against Jantjie and other people, was referred to the South Gauteng High Court in 2004. It was finalised in November 2006, but the court file for the case is empty.

[GhoulishVisage]

 

Gets funnier and funnier -  http://www.enca.com/south-africa/interpreter

 

 

eNCA's investigations have found that Thamsanqa Jantjie, who is being treated for schizophrenia, has also faced rape (1994), theft (1995), housebreaking (1997), malicious damage to property (1998), murder, attempted murder and kidnapping (2003) charges.  

Many of the charges brought against him were dropped, allegedly because he was mentally unfit to stand trial.

Jantjie was acquitted on the rape charge, but he was convicted of theft for which he was sentenced to three years in prison. It’s unclear if he ever spent time in jail.

Court records reveal that the 2003 murder, attempted murder and kidnapping case against Jantjie and other people, was referred to the South Gauteng High Court in 2004. It was finalised in November 2006, but the court file for the case is empty.

 

 

Now THAT is something to be worried about. How was this all not raised in security-checks?

And here I was getting my soap-boxing on.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2013 by GhoulishVisage

[Ineth]

Black majority yet not own property ( only about 15 % of land belongs to him, all other belongs to white colonists  )

 

Labeling today's white South Africans as "colonists" makes you come across as a racist.

Just say'n.

[BruceVC]

 

Black majority yet not own property ( only about 15 % of land belongs to him, all other belongs to white colonists  )

 

Labeling today's white South Africans as "colonists" makes you come across as a racist.

Just say'n.

 

 

Thanks for that but I think this was a misuse of the word due to translation and the fact that English isn't Oby's first language