Project Eternity to use a "Dispositions" morality system similar to Torment: Tides of Numenera's Tides

[Gumbercules]

Regarding labels, detailed info, and the ability to turn them on and off, will there be much granularity in terms of what specifically you can turn on or off? For instance, given the choice, I would probably choose to turn off most, if not all, dialogue-based assistance, but would like to keep some, but not all, combat-based assistance. Will I be able to do so?

[J.E. Sawyer]

Regarding labels, detailed info, and the ability to turn them on and off, will there be much granularity in terms of what specifically you can turn on or off? For instance, given the choice, I would probably choose to turn off most, if not all, dialogue-based assistance, but would like to keep some, but not all, combat-based assistance. Will I be able to do so?

 

Yes.  Those are separate options.

[SunBroSolaire]

Is there any system for individual NPC influence, a la Baldur's Gate companion rep?

[nikolokolus]

The main concern I would have with this system is whether your reputation is local or global. If you move to a new locale that doesn't communicate with the prior region, then have a reputation for cruelty or kindness still apply may break my suspension of disbelief. But hopefully that won't be an issue.

 

Presuming that your character is or becomes a well known bad-ass in the Dyrwood, it makes sense that your reputation is eventually going to proceed you. Even though it's a medieval-esque world, people have always loved to gossip and what better thing to gossip about than that marauding jerk/saint who's been running around the countryside doing "stuffs."

[Karkarov]

 

Hey Josh, were you inspired by the Tides or is it just a coincidence?

 

No.  This system is very similar to what we were doing on The Black Hound in 2003.

 

Actually it sounds really similar to Alpha Protocol.  Which is a good thing because I could be quoted saying the mechanics can be questionable but the conversation and character interaction is basically as good as it has ever been done.

 

Then considering Alpha Protocol is an Obsidian game I would guess that makes sense that it would be similar.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Karkarov

[Infinitron]

I'm not sure exactly how this is similar to Alpha Protocol, since as far as I know that game didn't track aspects of your personality ("sassy", etc). Don't know about Black Hound.

 

Is there any system for individual NPC influence, a la Baldur's Gate companion rep?

 

Baldur's Gate had companion rep?

Edited November 15, 2013 by Infinitron

[Gfted1]

Baldur's Gate had companion rep?

Yes, like if your reputation got too good the evil members would grouse and vice versa if you got too evil of a reputation.

 

Im curious how this system will play out. I see a lot of negative post about systems that use for example a radial wheel. When you pick an answer but then the game delivers it in a way you didn't intend. This system just seems to shift the "whoopsy-daisy" to the NPC. Now you can clearly see what you mean to say but you will have no idea how the NPC will interpret it. You may mean your Clever reply to be witty but they take it as sarcastic and you won't know that just happened.

[Malekith]

 

Baldur's Gate had companion rep?

Yes, like if your reputation got too good the evil members would grouse and vice versa if you got too evil of a reputation.

 

Im curious how this system will play out. I see a lot of negative post about systems that use for example a radial wheel. When you pick an answer but then the game delivers it in a way you didn't intend. This system just seems to shift the "whoopsy-daisy" to the NPC. Now you can clearly see what you mean to say but you will have no idea how the NPC will interpret it. You may mean your Clever reply to be witty but they take it as sarcastic and you won't know that just happened.

 

That's how it should work. It work that way IRL as well.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Malekith

[Sacred_Path]

Im curious how this system will play out. I see a lot of negative post about systems that use for example a radial wheel. When you pick an answer but then the game delivers it in a way you didn't intend. This system just seems to shift the "whoopsy-daisy" to the NPC. Now you can clearly see what you mean to say but you will have no idea how the NPC will interpret it. You may mean your Clever reply to be witty but they take it as sarcastic and you won't know that just happened.

That's ok though. You can be certain that certain actions will brand you as "cruel" but you have no idea how any given NPC will react to that. I don't really see any other non-retarded way to do it.

[Gfted1]

That's how it should work. It work that way IRL as well.

Eh, "IRL" is tricky to equate to a video game. IRL, when I talk to people I can generally tell how my words are being received. 

 

That's ok though. You can be certain that certain actions will brand you as "cruel" but you have no idea how any given NPC will react to that. I don't really see any other non-retarded way to do it.

I think you just said what I said. My point was that the "whoopsy-daisy" Sawyer mentions in post 25 didn't go away, it just shifted to the recipient.

[Malekith]

That's how it should work. It work that way IRL as well.

Eh, "IRL" is tricky to equate to a video game. IRL, when I talk to people I can generally tell how my words are being received. 

 

You will be able to tell in the  game too, how your words are being received. You will just not know how WILL be received before you say them.

[Messier-31]

You will be able to tell in the  game too, how your words are being received. You will just not know how WILL be received before you say them.

 

Sounds IRL to me.

[Sacred_Path]

I think you just said what I said. My point was that the "whoopsy-daisy" Sawyer mentions in post 25 didn't go away, it just shifted to the recipient.

 

Not really. There's a difference between beheading a bandit leader, just to be presented with the message "You just received 5 cruelty points! All healing sources will be denied to you!", and "the priest of the mercy god" reacting reserved to your reputation for cruelty that you built up carefully (by making informed decisions). The latter is much more intuitive.

[Karkarov]

Im curious how this system will play out. I see a lot of negative post about systems that use for example a radial wheel. When you pick an answer but then the game delivers it in a way you didn't intend. This system just seems to shift the "whoopsy-daisy" to the NPC. Now you can clearly see what you mean to say but you will have no idea how the NPC will interpret it. You may mean your Clever reply to be witty but they take it as sarcastic and you won't know that just happened.

That is where human nature comes in.  If you know one dialog option is going to result in you doing some soap box moralizing and the guy you are talking to is a hard baked mercenary who has been in his line of work for over a decade.... Well just don't be stunned when he isn't impressed by your speech.  You need to consider three things in your choices (just like alpha protocol) what do I want to play my character like, do I want to piss this person off or get on their good side, and what do I want to get out of this encounter short/long term?

Edited November 15, 2013 by Karkarov

[Gfted1]

You will be able to tell in the  game too, how your words are being received. You will just not know how WILL be received before you say them.

 

 

Not really. There's a difference between beheading a bandit leader, just to be presented with the message "You just received 5 cruelty points! All healing sources will be denied to you!", and "the priest of the mercy god" reacting reserved to your reputation for cruelty that you built up carefully (by making informed decisions). The latter is much more intuitive.

Are you two assuming that since Sawyer stated:

 

You don't know anything about how they will respond ahead of time (outside of your general understanding of the character).

That after we make a reply we will see a little "sarcastic +1" scroll by?

[Gfted1]

That is where human nature comes in.  If you know one dialog option is going to result in you doing some soap box moralizing and the guy you are talking to is a hard baked mercenary who has been in his line of work for over a decade.... Well just don't be stunned when he isn't impressed by your speech.  You need to consider three things in your choices (just like alpha protocol) what do I want to play my character like, do I want to piss this person off or get on their good side, and what do I want to get out of this encounter short/long term?

That's quite a leap of faith. Each "interpretation" seems to offer a good / neutral / bad option to the recipient so I wouldn't assume to know their motivations or decade long back history.

[Gumbercules]

There's a pretty big difference between not knowing how your character is going to speak or act, and not knowing how others will interpret that. It's the same as not knowing what an object is vs. not knowing whether or not the object in question is even real or a hallucination. Once you're sure of your own senses and intentions, you can use context and intuition to determine how others will react. Yes, there's still a chance you'll screw up, but it'll be in a much more fun and realistic way.

[Amentep]

 

You will be able to tell in the  game too, how your words are being received. You will just not know how WILL be received before you say them.

 

 

Not really. There's a difference between beheading a bandit leader, just to be presented with the message "You just received 5 cruelty points! All healing sources will be denied to you!", and "the priest of the mercy god" reacting reserved to your reputation for cruelty that you built up carefully (by making informed decisions). The latter is much more intuitive.

Are you two assuming that since Sawyer stated:

 

You don't know anything about how they will respond ahead of time (outside of your general understanding of the character).

That after we make a reply we will see a little "sarcastic +1" scroll by?

 

 

I assumed they meant you'd know by their reaction to your dialogue.

 

Ie, barking an order "Get you asses moving before I kick 'em!" might lead to a response of "Great way to take control of the men sir" or "Damn you bastard if you continue to treat us like this we're leaving!".

 

Or something, right now without an actual content relevant example it may be we're all extrapolating too much/too little about how it'll work for the players experience.

[Gfted1]

I assumed they meant you'd know by their reaction to your dialogue.

 

Ie, barking an order "Get you asses moving before I kick 'em!" might lead to a response of "Great way to take control of the men sir" or "Damn you bastard if you continue to treat us like this we're leaving!".

 

Or something, right now without an actual content relevant example it may be we're all extrapolating too much/too little about how it'll work for the players experience.

If we are offered some instant indication of their interpretation then that's fine. I was more considering a hidden counter somewhere where we don't know what their interpretation was.

[Wombat]

 

No.  This system is very similar to what we were doing on The Black Hound in 2003.

 

How did the reputation system work in the Black Hound?

 

IIRC, it had regional rep and faction rep, which, I think, were similar to these of New Vegas.

 

Also, tBH had a personality rep called epithet instead of "disposition."  Back then, I thought it would work like "Child Killer" in Fallout.  However, reading your discription about the description now, it sounds similar to stances in Alpha Protocol and tides in Torment.  Means, it functionally similar to the old morality slider (Good/Evil) in the way it constantly checks the responses of the PC although it is not calculated two-dimensionally or +/- and the NPCs have more various reactions to it.

[teknoman2]

if you are talking to a scientist and give a clever line, he will think you are smart. if you talk to an idiot and give him a clever line, he will think you make fun of him. this will change what this particular npc thinks of you. keep giving clever answers to scholars and the word will go around that you are smart. do the same to idiots and you will be *known* as a jerk. a pretty logical system and not unidimantional like a +/- numerical slider

[Sacred_Path]

Are you two assuming that since Sawyer stated:

 

You don't know anything about how they will respond ahead of time (outside of your general understanding of the character).

That after we make a reply we will see a little "sarcastic +1" scroll by?

 

Nop. But I assume there will be some indication as to how a character perceives you... not just a mechanical advantage/ penalty (such as increased store prices).

[Gfted1]

if you are talking to a scientist and give a clever line, he will think you are smart. if you talk to an idiot and give him a clever line, he will think you make fun of him. this will change what this particular npc thinks of you. keep giving clever answers to scholars and the word will go around that you are smart. do the same to idiots and you will be *known* as a jerk. a pretty logical system and not unidimantional like a +/- numerical slider

Link?

[Amentep]

 

I assumed they meant you'd know by their reaction to your dialogue.

 

Ie, barking an order "Get you asses moving before I kick 'em!" might lead to a response of "Great way to take control of the men sir" or "Damn you bastard if you continue to treat us like this we're leaving!".

 

Or something, right now without an actual content relevant example it may be we're all extrapolating too much/too little about how it'll work for the players experience.

If we are offered some instant indication of their interpretation then that's fine. I was more considering a hidden counter somewhere where we don't know what their interpretation was.

 

 

Ah, well I suppose there is the question of how this plays into global concerns (like annoy enough people and people find you annoying in general when you meet them).

 

I guess right now we don't have enough info on something like that.

[teknoman2]

 

if you are talking to a scientist and give a clever line, he will think you are smart. if you talk to an idiot and give him a clever line, he will think you make fun of him. this will change what this particular npc thinks of you. keep giving clever answers to scholars and the word will go around that you are smart. do the same to idiots and you will be *known* as a jerk. a pretty logical system and not unidimantional like a +/- numerical slider

Link?

 

i dont have a link it is just the logical way to implement it. it's practically the same thing Bethesda wanted to do with their Radial AI that they never implemented