:( Sad that obsidian is making this game isometric...

[Ulquiorra]

Bioware made the first Neverwinter Nights, not Obsidian.

 

Ups, your wright

 

So now it's more clear to my why the game has more optimalized graphics then Neverwinter Night 2 but worse dialogs \

 

Ehh.. biowere shoud make graphic, obsidian shoud do dialogs and EA shoud burn in rotting hell, and mayby then we will have perfect game

[Tamerlane]

At the risk of being super pedantic, Bioware didn't make the first Neverwinter Nights game.

[Hassat Hunter]

You can get all pro's and con's for 2D and 3D... but...

 

I don't get what bugs or crashes have anything to do with that discussion? Since... it really has absolutely zero effect on it.

[Tale]

If you can't discuss the topic without discussing each other, the thread may have to be closed.

 

I don't like doing that, though. If you don't like a poster's posts, make use of the ignore feature.

[Haribol22]

However I don't believe that every game must be restricted to first or third person view to be successful, it should cater to whatever its audience wants, and implying such meaningless restrictions to a medium is rather narrow minded. No insult intended of course, but i'm rather against stifling creativity for the sake of what is fashionable.

[nikolokolus]

Bioware made the first Neverwinter Nights, not Obsidian.

 

A pity. The OC might have been worth playing if it had been the other way around.  Whether or not it would have crashed to the desktop every ten minutes at launch is another story altogether.

[Mungri]

I just signed up here to say that just about every 3D based game since NWN (including both NWN games) completely ruined what I enjoyed so much about 2D isometric RPGs. 

 

I enjoyed the top down fixed camera tactical view the most, along with having a party of characters to control, and the pause and issue commands strategic gameplay. I felt like too much of this was sacrificed in the NWN games, I couldnt stand the game engines, nor the camera angles, and the top down view in those games felt very clunky and disorganised, and was nowhere close to the quality of top down iso games before it.

 

3D works great for action / combat based RPGs like Elder Scrolls and the MMO genre, to me though it just completely ruined party based games, at least all the up until DAO, which was the first 3D based game with top down view, party and pause mechanics that I thoroughly enjoyed, but it still didnt compare at all the the aging infinity engine, and other 2D iso RPGs and was far too simplified. And then Bioware went full crazy and completely ruined DA2 and removed everything that made DAO so great to turn it into a console 'Push one button to win' style of game.

 

I wish I had found out about this game sooner, I only recently found out about it and long missed getting a early supporter pack, but I am looking forward to it greatly now, it looks like just the RPG I've been waiting for since all the Infinity Engine games.

[Hassat Hunter]

Trust me, a lot of us are waiting for a RPG like this. A lot. Or it wouldn't have hit it's mark so quick and raise so much money.

[Jobby]

Couldnt be bothered reading 14 pages of (hopefully) angry responses, just wanted to add my own, you sir are either a troll or a ****.

[Ulquiorra]

Couldnt be bothered reading 14 pages of (hopefully) angry responses, just wanted to add my own, you sir are either a troll or a ****.

 

Or PE troll

[Chippy]

Assuming this isn't trolling, I'd just like to say that I prefer isometric games becasue I could always see what was going on.

[Ulquiorra]

Assuming this isn't trolling, I'd just like to say that I prefer isometric games becasue I could always see what was going on.

 

Not everything, it's goes to scale.

 

Yeah you can see more "goin on" in the rest of the field. But you can not se if a person for example is smilling or be angry or giving you hand to say hello or giving you something ...

 

But personaly in combat i prefer isomethric .. in dialog in face to face .. but i don;t supose PE will have something like that so .. i must  live with it

[Malekith]

PE will have discriptions like Torment though.

"................."the man smiles treateningly.

"................" A shadow of a doubt creeps in his voice etc.

So being able to see the awkward animations on character faces is irrelevant.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Malekith

[Frenetic Pony]

 

Assuming this isn't trolling, I'd just like to say that I prefer isometric games becasue I could always see what was going on.

 

Not everything, it's goes to scale.

 

Yeah you can see more "goin on" in the rest of the field. But you can not se if a person for example is smilling or be angry or giving you hand to say hello or giving you something ...

 

But personaly in combat i prefer isomethric .. in dialog in face to face .. but i don;t supose PE will have something like that so .. i must  live with it

 

 

Yeah, I think the first Dragon Age and to a lesser extent KOTOR worked pretty well in this sense. Ohwell, it was a Kickstarter funded game, and a fixed isometric view means you don't have to spend as much on detailed art. Maybe Eternity 2: More Eternity can move to a cross between up close and isometric.

[Messier-31]

Huh  Just as I forgot all about this thread, unexpectedly it is developing nicely

 

So, isometric dogma - transcendent path for a good cRPG, lots of possibilities. Except for the sky and clouds that is. Nope.

[teknoman2]

 

 

Assuming this isn't trolling, I'd just like to say that I prefer isometric games becasue I could always see what was going on.

 

Not everything, it's goes to scale.

 

Yeah you can see more "goin on" in the rest of the field. But you can not se if a person for example is smilling or be angry or giving you hand to say hello or giving you something ...

 

But personaly in combat i prefer isomethric .. in dialog in face to face .. but i don;t supose PE will have something like that so .. i must  live with it

 

 

Yeah, I think the first Dragon Age and to a lesser extent KOTOR worked pretty well in this sense. Ohwell, it was a Kickstarter funded game, and a fixed isometric view means you don't have to spend as much on detailed art. Maybe Eternity 2: More Eternity can move to a cross between up close and isometric.

 

they can go the Guild Wars 2 style for dialogs. or if they want to skip the animated part, just go full jrpg with static images of the characters

[Xienzi]

Both are awful ideas.

[Boox]

I think that if you took away the descriptive written dialog and replaced it with close-ups and facial animations, you'd essentially destroy the charm of the old IE games. This may seem weird, but I was drawn to the IE games because there was a lot of descriptive text. The fact that you don't see the characters smiling, extending their hands or winking, but instead you read about it, increases immersion and adds to the mood. In fact, I'd argue that you are more likely to succeed in conveying subtler emotional states and actions via text than through animation, at least when you have a small budget. Even if Pixar-level animations were the norm for RPGs, I might still prefer text. That's just my personal taste, though. I feel that when you read something in, let's say, BG, you are engaging your imagination and being an active participant in the game. Watching animations seems more passive to me.

 

I truly hope that Obsidian doesn't stray away from text-heavy interactions in future expansions or P:E sequels.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Boox

[Rabain]

I agree with Boox.  Also when developers try to use facial expressions they usually get half of it wrong and end up conveying some creepy looking leer rather than a smile or a wink. That whole Uncanny valley thing going on.

 

If you can use your imagination then immersion isn't about better graphics, it's about good storytelling.

[Hassat Hunter]

Yeah, I rather that they make PE2 to PE as BG2 is to BG (which would be awesome if PE was already like BG2). More of everything, rather than spending it to add graphical fluff which only purpose serves to make the game worse, rather than better. And why would you invest in making your game worse?

[teknoman2]

Both are awful ideas.

indeed they are, at least for this game. im just saying that if they wanted to make a graphical representation, these are 2 options that are feasible within the budget of the game

[Hassat Hunter]

They already have that if more is needed you get some artwork and text. That's about all we need I think.

Would look far better than looking at a closeup of something made for an isometric system and thus never MEANT to be looked at close. Or you need to make them for looking close, and that's just a major waste of time and resources since you barely are ever close...

[Lephys]

The Guild Wars 2 dialogues are actually set up to be very good. But then, the voice acting is mostly "meh," at best, and the animations and such (and writing) is pretty awful, too. Basically, it's a good idea with absolutely no valuable support from the game's resources. As if just the sheer existence of the skeleton of that type of dialogue scene was somehow supposed to be amazing.

[teknoman2]

The Guild Wars 2 dialogues are actually set up to be very good. But then, the voice acting is mostly "meh," at best, and the animations and such (and writing) is pretty awful, too. Basically, it's a good idea with absolutely no valuable support from the game's resources. As if just the sheer existence of the skeleton of that type of dialogue scene was somehow supposed to be amazing.

have you played jrpg's like path of radiance or grandia? in GW2, they used that type of dialog system, with animations and voice overs, instead of static images and text.

of course the quality of writing and voice acting is not the best, since it is an mmo after all. they did not put resources on something that is nice to have but not the main focus of the game

Edited December 5, 2013 by teknoman2

[rjshae]

Yeah, I rather that they make PE2 to PE as BG2 is to BG (which would be awesome if PE was already like BG2). More of everything, rather than spending it to add graphical fluff which only purpose serves to make the game worse, rather than better. And why would you invest in making your game worse?

 

I feel similarly. FPS games have become the medium for ever finer graphical detail; I'm hoping Isometric games will turn into the medium for fine story telling and squad level tactical combat. Once the engine is developed, they don't really need to keep re-inventing it. Just apply incremental improvements (like in the old Gold Box series) while focusing in on the story and the associated art work.