UK Muslims targeted for speaking out about terror

[Gorgon]

You can't really put a price of ref authority. Once a group of players swarm the ref, they get one warning, then it's cards for everyone. He hit the leg before the ball and it was from behind so it's a penalty. 

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

 

 

So far as I know JDL has never actually killed anyone.

I'm sure Baruch Goldstein didn't actually kill those people he gunned down while they were worshiping then.

 

Goldstein was a member of the Kach party. I'm not aware that the Kach party was itself involved in the attack. JDL is a US organization, this happened in Israel, not US. It's worth noting that there were thousands, may be tens of thousands of attacks from the other side.

 

 

Let's look at the "number of attacks" statement. "Thousands"? "Tens of thousands"? That is perhaps the most deranged stuff I have read here on this this week, and that is with competition from certain trolls. I know we have differing opinions on some matters, but here you've really got to get a grip on reality.

 

Here are casualty statistics from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Note how ten times as many children have been killed on the Palestinian side. Here's a list of Palestinian suicide attacks for you to peruse.

 

Now I'm not counting attacks such as rock throwing, destruction of property, and so on. In that case, I'm sure it's quite possible we would actually reach over 1000 attacks in one year, from both sides. However the attacks from Israelis would likely be even higher (I can say that with certainty about the last few years at least), so in a blame game where it's "worth noting" which side commits the worst atrocities it's of no use to you. Note that this kind of violence almost exclusively occurs in the West Bank, and not inside Israel.

 

So you have a list of successful suicide attacks only, for a limited period of time. If you count every attack which was thwarted at the last moment, every stabbing, every shooting, every bombing, not just suicide ones, and depending which time period you use (Palestinian cross border attacks occurred from the very founding of Israel), it easily runs into thousands. Not to mention technically every missile and mortar shell launched from Gaza counts as an attack, although I didn't mean to include them individually into the count.

 

 

Yeah, too bad 16th century colonizers weren't the "peace and love" types. Did it also occur to you that may be the Indians had no desire whatsoever to integrate into anything?

 

Edit: And I guess Israelis could integrate the Palestinians into their society so that Palestinians teach them about the wit and wisdom of adolph hitler : http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/10/22/palestinian-authority-kids-mag-publishes-bogus-wit-and-wisdom-adolf-hitler/

 

Hm, I wrote a response to this but I accidentally closed my browser... Did you edit away something from your post?

 

No, I don't think so. Normally I only edit for spelling else I note editing.

 

(which earlier was brutally suppressed by the Democrat-controlled IRS. The current president is a female, liberal, communist African-American closet Muslim who obviously is not going to do squat to help the brave Texans).

You mean Obama.

blah blah blah fantasy...

You mischaracterize the entire situation. Arab-Israelis have equal rights, and even privileges, like not having to serve in the armed forces. The reason there are walls between Israel and West Bank and Gaza is because Palestinians kept sending suicide bombers into Israel, before that they were able to work freely in Israel with much benefit to themselves, but they chose to screw it up.

 

The Caliphate wouldn't screw around if opposed, they would simply exterminate all opposition. They might do that in any case, look at what's happening to Christians right now in Muslim countries.

 

What would you do if you lost your homeland?

Thanks to immigrant vote Demorcrats and cheap illegal labor Republicans I'm losing my homeland right now. I really don't know what to do, I guess I'm going to have to move once Texas becomes another third world **** hole.

[ShadySands]

A friend sent me this and thought maybe some of you would be interested

 

http://demographics.coopercenter.org/DotMap/index.html

[Meshugger]

I do not need a map to know that. I took a wrong turn in Philadelphia once and suddenly we we're the only white guys around. 

[Walsingham]

A friend sent me this and thought maybe some of you would be interested

 

http://demographics.coopercenter.org/DotMap/index.html

 

The most interesting thing there is the old adage that people follow geography.

[obyknven]

Meanwhile first Muslim girl superheroine appeared in Marvel comics.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=48940
 

 
P.S. On this pic she beat scientist from A.I.M.
 http://marvel.wikia.com/Advanced_Idea_Mechanics_(Earth-616)

[Walsingham]

We had a link to her over a year ago.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

We had a link to her over a year ago.

That would be surprising as it was announced in October.

 

Will be cancelled by March, more than likely.

[Amentep]

The new Ms. Marvel is actually not the first Muslim heroine in Marvel comics.  You have Sooraya "Dust" Qadir in the X-Men books (debuted in 2002) and Dr. Faiza "Excalibur" Hussain in Captain Britain and MI:13 (debuted in 2008) that I know of.

 

Might be accurate to say she's the first Muslim heroine to headline her own comic, though.  And despite Oby's pic, she's not fighting crime in a Burqa (or even an abaya with niqāb like Dust does).

Edited November 19, 2013 by Amentep

[Walsingham]

 

We had a link to her over a year ago.

That would be surprising as it was announced in October.

 

Will be cancelled by March, more than likely.

 

 

Must have been one of the other ones I was thinking of.

[Kroney]

I've just read through this thread. Never seen so much thinly-veiled xenophobia all in one thread.

 

Speaking as a resident of "Londonistan", it is true that you can go walking around and see plenty of brown people. You can go to Southall and see the wonder of the local signs being bilingual English and Punjabi. I actually flatshare with an Indian girl in an affluent area of North Londonistan. As of 12:30 on the 29th November, the sky has not yet fallen in on anybody's heads. Nor has English culture, whatever you may decide that should be, collapsed around anybody's ears.

 

It is a fact that as your country gets more affluent, more people are going to want to live there. There is absolutely no Earthly reason why anybody should be sitting at the ports demanding that people swear allegiance to the new country, or give up their skull caps, head scarves, religious icons or anything else outside of outright, bare-faced racism. None. Anybody attempting to justify such behaviour is, at very best, a xenophobe. As long as incoming people are willing to obey the laws of the country they're in, then that is the only thing that matters. Should they break the laws of that country, they should be punished according to it.

 

That discussions like this are still happening in the supposedly enlightened West in the 21st century makes my skin crawl.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Kroney

[Meshugger]

While no rational person in a western society would deny the right to self-expression of the other or demand alliegence in blood, but on the other hand, there has to be some sort levelled middle ground to be found, which can prove to be difficult.

[Walsingham]

While no rational person in a western society would deny the right to self-expression of the other or demand alliegence in blood, but on the other hand, there has to be some sort levelled middle ground to be found, which can prove to be difficult.

 

I have to agree. I think there has to be more than a nation than some sort of free trade and non-interference agreement. Or at least, I would like there to be. And I think history does not look favourably on nations that don't have something deeper. 

 

Provided that something is a thing which CAN be selectively chosen, rather than something you have no control over, then what is the problem?

[Rostere]

The thing is that historically, there have been nations, the Ottoman Empire for example, which has allowed different legislature for different population groups. People were allowed to resolve their internal matters with their own law, to some degree. Historically there are in fact many such examples. So when we talk about asking people to respect the laws we have in our countries, we are not necessarily talking about something 100% obvious. This has nothing to do with racism, but with culture and traditions in different parts of the world.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

How would one go about determining the culture of a nation? Would TsugaC and Hurlshot agree on what constitutes American culture?

[Kroney]

 

While no rational person in a western society would deny the right to self-expression of the other or demand alliegence in blood, but on the other hand, there has to be some sort levelled middle ground to be found, which can prove to be difficult.

 

I have to agree. I think there has to be more than a nation than some sort of free trade and non-interference agreement. Or at least, I would like there to be. And I think history does not look favourably on nations that don't have something deeper. 

 

Provided that something is a thing which CAN be selectively chosen, rather than something you have no control over, then what is the problem?

 

 

Would you guys say that the idea of a nation is inimicable to free movement? I really don't see what the issue would be and experience shows that the risk of any sort of cultural diluton is minimal at worst. I don't really see that the concept of cultural integration is really necessary beyond obeying the laws of the land. Again, experience shows that generations born into a foreign land will be culturally absorbed eventually.

 

Too much scaremongering imo

Edited November 29, 2013 by Kroney

[Nonek]

Sorry for introducing the term "Londonistan" Kroney, I agree that it's a rather ugly title, if it helps any I heard it from a French security expert we were employing a few years ago.

[Walsingham]

 

 

While no rational person in a western society would deny the right to self-expression of the other or demand alliegence in blood, but on the other hand, there has to be some sort levelled middle ground to be found, which can prove to be difficult.

 

I have to agree. I think there has to be more than a nation than some sort of free trade and non-interference agreement. Or at least, I would like there to be. And I think history does not look favourably on nations that don't have something deeper. 

 

Provided that something is a thing which CAN be selectively chosen, rather than something you have no control over, then what is the problem?

 

 

Would you guys say that the idea of a nation is inimicable to free movement? I really don't see what the issue would be and experience shows that the risk of any sort of cultural diluton is minimal at worst. I don't really see that the concept of cultural integration is really necessary beyond obeying the laws of the land. Again, experience shows that generations born into a foreign land will be culturally absorbed eventually.

 

Too much scaremongering imo

 

 

You've not been around for a while, so I don't want to give the wrong impression.

 

I am very much in favour of free movement. If only because I would be a hypocrite if I weren't.

 

But I would also be doing my country a poor service if I denied that it has been stronger since becoming a country, not just a collection of rock and grass.

 

I don' tthink there has to be one Britain. I don't beleive there ever was. I don't believe that it could be written down and enforced.

 

What I do say is that when a nation becomes some grey accumulation of red tape and roadworks then I want nothing to do with it. It is just a millstone around the neck. A cage.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Walsingham

[Oerwinde]

The thing is that historically, there have been nations, the Ottoman Empire for example, which has allowed different legislature for different population groups. People were allowed to resolve their internal matters with their own law, to some degree. Historically there are in fact many such examples. So when we talk about asking people to respect the laws we have in our countries, we are not necessarily talking about something 100% obvious. This has nothing to do with racism, but with culture and traditions in different parts of the world.

 

The thing there, is because they allowed each group a level of autonomy to that degree, they never felt like they were truly Ottomans, which resulted in all sorts of civil war and such. There needs to be a desired level of assimilation and pressure to do so, otherwise you get a patchwork of different people who don't fit with each other, and that doesn't end well. The issue is finding that desired level and the level of pressure that doesn't lead to push back.

[Rostere]

So you have a list of successful suicide attacks only, for a limited period of time. If you count every attack which was thwarted at the last moment, every stabbing, every shooting, every bombing, not just suicide ones, and depending which time period you use (Palestinian cross border attacks occurred from the very founding of Israel), it easily runs into thousands. Not to mention technically every missile and mortar shell launched from Gaza counts as an attack, although I didn't mean to include them individually into the count.

 

The point was that you made it seem like the massacre was one Jewish extremist attack, in retaliation for 1000 Palestinian attacks. That is completely misunderstanding the situation, as I've shown in the official statistics (If you wonder why there are no suicide bombings listed after 2008... That's because there have been no suicide bombings after 2008). Many, many more Palestinians are killed in this conflict. And that is just counting deaths - if we count property damage it becomes even more unproportional. A lot of this even happens under Israeli law. Did you know that the punishment for some crimes in Israel (for a Palestinian - of course not for a Jew!) used to be house demolition? That is, demolition of the entire house a person is living in, regardless of who else lives there. Nowadays, house demolitions are granted by decree, so there's no need for any criminal to be living there. I even hear that in some cases Palestinians are obligated to destroy their own houses, if they don't, they are fined tens of thousands of dollars. All in an effort to make them move to another country. This isn't even hushed down, the Israeli members of Knesset talk about the Palestinian "demographic threat" and how many families they must displace to achieve a Jewish majority in certain areas openly. What would you do if your apartment building was to be blown up?

 

Here's a recent Israeli article about the constant ongoing abuse from Jewish far-right extremist settlers living on confiscated Palestinian land:

 

"It is night time and the children are sleeping. The tranquility is broken by a group of masked men rampaging through the village, yelling obscenities. Stones are thrown, breaking windows. The children wake up in terror. A Molotov ****tail is thrown into the house, engulfing the curtains in flames.

South of Nablus, between the settlements of Yitzhar and Har Bracha, the village of Burin is groaning. How many of you have heard of Burin, or know that it’s been assaulted 2-3 times a week in the last month, some of the attacks occurring at night? The perpetrators are groups of Israeli youths whose aim is to make the villagers leave.

 

Of course you haven’t heard of Burin. Why would you?"

 

Here's a blog post about the infamous Prawer plan, which was intended as a solution to the "Beduin problem" in the Negev Desert.

 

The plan details how 40000 Bedouin and Druze will be forcibly relocated to internment camps similar to those in the West Bank, and 61700 acres of land belonging to Bedouins will be confiscated to be handed out to Israeli settlers. What would you say if this happened to you in your country? The government motivates this with that the Bedouin villages are not connected neither to the power grid, nor to running water. Which is because not one shekel of tax money is spent on the Beduoin by the same government, so it's highly hypocritical. What extremely strange and ironic is that two different groups have been demonstrating against the plan - the Bedouin (supported by the Israeli pro-equality parties in opposition) and the far-right Jewish settler parties. The former because it is outrageously racist, the latter because it is "too generous towards the Arabs" Now it looks as if the plan won't pass Knesset. Here's what one rightist (Likud) politician had to say:

 

"The present bill should be changed significantly. I’m willing to be generous to the Bedouin that would immediately agree to join the process. Whoever won’t agree should be forcefully placed in the areas allotted to Bedouin. The agreement to join the generous outline should be limited in time, and is should be determined that the lands would only be leased to the Bedouins, not registered with the land authority as their property"

 

Oh, I'm sure he'll be very generous. Oh, you want to confiscate ALL the land and "lease" the rest (in contrast to land that is given to Jewish settlers!).

 

One further irony is that many Druze who will be "relocated" actually serve in the Israeli army. They go out and might risk their life, but when they go home they will see construction crews building villas for Jewish settlers on top of their old houses, while they themselves are "relocated" to camps on "leased" land.

 

There are blogs who collect and document all reported instances of violence against people and property in the West Bank, here's a recent "snapshot" of news from 7-8 December (I've removed doubles):

 

Report: Israeli police volunteer ‘changes story’ about border killing - A Palestinian man is shot dead by a Israeli "police volunteer" as he is handing out invitations to his wedding

 

Child shot dead outside school by Israeli sniper in the refugee camp al-Jalazun - A 14-year old child is shot in the back by a sniper in a tower overlooking his internment camp as he is standing outside school

 

Israeli forces open fire on protests in Nabi Saleh, 5 injured - Israeli military disperse a peaceful demonstration in Nabi Saleh with tear gas and rubber bullets

 

Month-old child injured during Israel raid on Kafr Qaddum

 

Settlers assault a Palestinian child in Hebron

 

Explosive device ‘left by Israeli forces’ injures Palestinian teen

 

Israel and Netherlands in row over security scanner at Gaza border - This is quite funny. The Dutch donate a high-tech security scanner to make Israel capable of allowing more goods into Gaza. Israel accepts the gift but maintains that "the fact that we know nothing illegal is being smuggled does not make us ease sanctions against Gaza"

 

Israeli tanks fire at farmers in northern Gaza

 

Israeli forces open fire at farmers near Khan Younis

 

Fishing under fire off the Gaza coast

 

IDF seized West Bank house despite court ruling for Palestinian owners - Jewish settlers change locks on house they would like, leaving the owners homeless. Israeli decides in favour of the Palestinian owners, since there has been no official notice of demolition or eviction. Nevertheless, Israeli army seize the house for unclear reasons

 

IOF soldiers threaten to fire at Yatta landowners - Farmers forbidden to farm their land under penalty of being shot at the spot by the Israeli army

 

The high cost of Israel’s water policies - "For instance, while the fortress-like Israeli settlements surrounding Bethlehem have swimming pools and irrigated landscaping and lawns, Bethlehem can go for 10-15 days without flowing water, as residents are forced to pay for ‘empty pipes.’"

 

Palestinian mosque in Israel vandalized with anti-Islamic graffiti

 

That's just occurences from two days. This is the country which the US pumps three billion dollars into each year while cutting it's own welfare programs, supporting them enthusiastically in their every endeavour even more than they did South Africa back in the Apartheid days. Can you believe it?

 

You mischaracterize the entire situation. Arab-Israelis have equal rights, and even privileges, like not having to serve in the armed forces. The reason there are walls between Israel and West Bank and Gaza is because Palestinians kept sending suicide bombers into Israel, before that they were able to work freely in Israel with much benefit to themselves, but they chose to screw it up.

 

No, no, no, no. You are right only in that the wall between Israel and the West Bank was partially constructed because of security reasons. Palestinians work in Israel under no legal protection, for dump wages. Jobs in the West Bank are very scarce, because of the strict embargo-like Israeli rules for investment, import and export.

 

Let's talk about Arabs in Israel. Yeah, you're right in that they have the "privilege" of not serving in the army which is Israel's foremost tool of harassment against the Arabs themselves and who as recently as 2009 are suspected by the UN of having committed war crimes in Gaza through the systematic killing of civilians and destruction of houses. They face harsh discrimination on issues of immigration and housing. Arabs can never unite with a person they've married from another country. Jews are automatically granted citizenship, as long as they can prove they are Jews. Palestinian refugees are forbidden from even entering Israel (that includes the West Bank). Jews (after they have proven that they belong to the Jewish "race", I could write pages about this bizarre process only) immigrating to Israel are given a place to live as encouragement. Palestinians are extremely rarely allowed construction permits, and their is confiscated on the government's whim, their homes demolished if they government finds out they are constructed without an impossible-to-get-if-you're-a-Palestinian permit. They also can't live anywhere in Israel, as some places are self-described "Jews only" cities.

 

There are four kinds of Palestinians: those who live inside Israel "proper", those who live in the occupied West Bank, those who live in Gaza, and those who live in refugee camps around the borders of Israel after the ethnic cleansing during the war in 1948.

 

Those who live in Gaza live in an area which is constantly under embargo by Israel. Only the most basal of food supplies, from various aid agencies, are allowed inside. There are smuggling tunnels, however. These have the same "equal rights" or "freedom" as people living in a large open air prison outside the law (think this  ). Israeli surveillance drones are constantly buzzing overhead. If you get too close to the wall, a sniper will shoot you from one of the many towers (even if you are just a child playing football).

 

Those who live in the West Bank have possibly worse living conditions than the Gazans. They live in an area intersected by endless security checks, walls and menacing sniper towers. They must carry their special Israeli-issued "Arab passport" at all times, even then they might have to wait for hours or be denied passage without any explanation. Furthermore, Arab villages are razed continously to make place for Jewish settler residences, "Jews only" roads and more walls protecting these.

 

They are under constant attack by far-right extremist Jewish settlers who do everything from throwing rocks at children on their way to school, to slashing tyres of cars, to destroying olive groves which is basically the Palestinians' only source of income (disregarding aid money if you're a member of the Fatah mafia). Living in the West Bank as a Palestinian is definitely way worse than living as a Black African under Apartheid, there can be no doubt about that. But the comparisons can be made more direct than that. In this recent movie about a theater troupe bringing the legacy of Martin Luther King to Palestine, they try with disastrous results to ride a "Jews only"-bus. There were elections in the West Bank once. However since then, parties who disapprove of the current system have been leading, so there have been no further elections. Settlers living in the West Bank can vote in Israel, Palestinians living there have no right to vote in Israel, only for the quasi-government of the tiny so-called "Area A" Palestinian reservation.

 

And then there are those who have been living in squalid refugee camps since 1948 waiting to return to their homeland, something which has been denied them by the Israeli government in violation of international law. I wonder you would be able to wait so long if you were driven from the US by a hostile occupier?

 

The Caliphate wouldn't screw around if opposed, they would simply exterminate all opposition. They might do that in any case, look at what's happening to Christians right now in Muslim countries.

 

So does that make the invasion, occupation and ongoing ethnic cleansing of Palestine moral? What is your point?

 

Yeah, Christians are having an increasingly hard time down in the Middle East right now. After the whole age of colonialism, Cold War meddling and support of unpopular dictators, the recent wars and US enthusiastic support for Israeli war crimes, they are increasingly starting to think that Christians are the source of all evil. You can forgive them a bit for thinking so when you consider it must seem that way from their perspective. If only all Arabs could go to trips to the US, they would learn that American Christians do not sit all day and plot which countries to bomb next and do high-fives when they hear the Israeli army has shot another child. In fact most American Christians are probably 100% oblivious both about which ME dictators the CIA supported during which years, how many civilians have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan and about the situation in Israel. So it would be deeply unfair to characterize them as evil in any way.

 

Thanks to immigrant vote Demorcrats and cheap illegal labor Republicans I'm losing my homeland right now. I really don't know what to do, I guess I'm going to have to move once Texas becomes another third world **** hole.

 

Well. At least you're not stuck in a refugee camp, having lost all your land and possessions because religious fanatics have claimed your country as their holy land and driven you out. Think about it. Things could be worse. You could have been born a Palestinian!

[Wrath of Dagon]

I would note that a lot of your accusations come from Palestinian sources, not objective sources.

 

Edit: Also I was talking about Arab Israelis having equal rights, you conveniently switched the subject to Palestinians who are not citizens, whether you think they should be citizens is irrelevant.

 

 

Thanks to immigrant vote Demorcrats and cheap illegal labor Republicans I'm losing my homeland right now. I really don't know what to do, I guess I'm going to have to move once Texas becomes another third world **** hole.

Well. At least you're not stuck in a refugee camp, having lost all your land and possessions because religious fanatics have claimed your country as their holy land and driven you out. Think about it. Things could be worse. You could have been born a Palestinian!

 

They're stuck in refugee camps because their brother Arabs won't lift a finger to help them, so that they can use them as a political issue. As far as being forced off their land, no one forced Arabs to attack Israel as soon as it was founded, if they didn't they'd all still be where they were. And it's not like the Palestinians wouldn't have driven the Jews into the sea if they could, in fact they've always said so. Edited December 13, 2013 by Wrath of Dagon

[Rostere]

I would note that a lot of your accusations come from Palestinian sources, not objective sources.

 

Edit: Also I was talking about Arab Israelis having equal rights, you conveniently switched the subject to Palestinians who are not citizens, whether you think they should be citizens is irrelevant.

 

 

Thanks to immigrant vote Demorcrats and cheap illegal labor Republicans I'm losing my homeland right now. I really don't know what to do, I guess I'm going to have to move once Texas becomes another third world **** hole.

Well. At least you're not stuck in a refugee camp, having lost all your land and possessions because religious fanatics have claimed your country as their holy land and driven you out. Think about it. Things could be worse. You could have been born a Palestinian!

 

They're stuck in refugee camps because their brother Arabs won't lift a finger to help them, so that they can use them as a political issue. As far as being forced off their land, no one forced Arabs to attack Israel as soon as it was founded, if they didn't they'd all still be where they were. And it's not like the Palestinians wouldn't have driven the Jews into the sea if they could, in fact they've always said so.

 

You do realize that when Israel was founded, it was on their land? Like, Arabic land, where there lives loads and loads of Arabs? It's kind of like if the Kurds would start their new Muslim and Kurd country where you live. Would you fight back? Or would you just sit idle and hope they'd let you stay where you are?

 

You will find that it's no secret that the Zionists always wanted to kick out as many Arabs as they could (ask David Ben-Gurion, for example), how else could they have a Jewish and "democratic" country, if the majority of the population were Arabs? It's no secret that the Zionists always wanted a "Jewish" state (that is like, the definition of the ideology...), not for Jews and Arabs to live in a country for all races, like in modern South Africa. In 1900, 5% of Palestine was Jewish. The war was triggered when lots and lots of Jews immigrated illegally to Palestine after WW2, and expressed their intent to make Arabian Palestine a "Jewish" state. The started killing off the British, who tried to stop all the immigration, but eventually the British left. Only when the Brits left did the Arabs chose war, when the Jews declared their own "Jewish" state on their land.

 

What would you have done if a minority of Muslims declared a "Muslim" state in Texas?

 

I would note that a lot of your accusations come from Palestinian sources, not objective sources.

 

Edit: Also I was talking about Arab Israelis having equal rights, you conveniently switched the subject to Palestinians who are not citizens, whether you think they should be citizens is irrelevant.

 

Oh please. You mean this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%27an_News_Agency news page (apostrophe ****s up link - lazy forum coders)? I can say it's very credible . Don't claim otherwise, you would just appear chauvinistic for not trusting foreign news media. What are you going to do next? Stop reading about American politicians in American newspapers because they are biased? Come on. You do trust Israeli news pages I guess? Because else we're in a pickle, because there are hardly any news sources except these two on these matters.

 

I did talk about Arab Israelis - reply to that if you're interested. It's just that "forgetting" about the others are very hypocritical. It is not at all about whether or not they should be citizens, it's about the crimes that are inflicted on them regularly by the Israeli occupiers, such as forcibly displacing civilians (it's a war crime). I think it's especially distasteful to displace occupied people with no rights, if you're making "living space" for your own citizens with full civil rights.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Rostere

[HoonDing]

What would you have done if a minority of Muslims declared a "Muslim" state in Texas?

Was there a Muslim diaspora from Texas in the past?

[Elerond]

 

What would you have done if a minority of Muslims declared a "Muslim" state in Texas?

Was there a Muslim diaspora from Texas in the past?

 

 

Would it be better if it was Apache instead of Muslim?

Edited December 13, 2013 by Elerond

[Kroney]

Couple of chaps got arrested a week or so back for strolling around East London attempting to enforce Sharia Law in an area around a mosque. Response fromt he wider Islamic community was bemusement.