Ship-to-ship combat

[rjshae]

An idea that still intrigues me is the possibility of having ship-to-ship combat in an IE-style game. I could see that happening in two stages: 1) the enemy ship moves across the area toward the party's ship, allowing ranged combat to take place, including spells and firearms; 2) following some animations showing grappling hooks being tossed across, the two ships become joined together in a stationary position, allowing boarding across ramps. A pitched battle ensues.

 

The first part would require some special coding to factor in the moving ship during combat. That's probably the part that makes this concept more difficult to implement. But it would add a lot of realism to the scene. I'm not sure how do-able that is, mechanics-wise. Perhaps the enemy are repeatedly translated across the map by applying offsets to their positions many times a second?

 

The issue of fire during the battle would be a concern. Tossing fireballs across could cause both ships to catch fire, so perhaps the game would need to impose a restriction on fire spells? This wouldn't necessarily need to be a mechanical restriction, but could perhaps be handled via a faction change with the group transporting the party. However, that would also require that the game simulate the spread of fire across the ships, and possibly sailors spending time fighting those fires.

 

Any thoughts?

[JFSOCC]

very cool, but no idea how it would be implemented.

[PrimeJunta]

That would be a fairly substantial system in its own right. It would be cool to have a maritime-themed campaign which did have it. Doesn't sound at all impossible to implement on top of a cRPG system.

[Nonek]

Text cutscene describing a pirate attack? As in King of Dragon Pass or Darklands, then cut to the battle and two ships upon the high seas, repel the enemy or suffer a spell in the enemies brig (with the appropriate opportunities to escape.) The actual sailing and voyage is all handled by the text and illustrations, with the battle being the only animated section.

 

Edit: Armour.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Nonek

[Lephys]

If this is too extensive to feasibly implement, then what about carriage-to-carriage combat?! 8D

[Gumbercules]

Cool idea. I doubt it would be feasible for the first game, but I've long thought that if Project Eternity is successful enough to warrant a sequel, it would be great to have a seafaring-focused story. The player ship could replace the player stronghold, and it would be a natural way to shift the setting away from the Dyrwood and to new locations.

 

I agree with Nonek that the actual boarding combat is the only thing that needs to be an animated section. The rest can play out in text, and your options could change depending on what kinds of spellcasters or ranged weapons your party has.

[Lephys]

Random encounter/scripted event during over-sea world map travel?

[Nonek]

Personally i'd implement the chance of different events based upon different routes you choose:

 

1. Put on sail and dare the dannein straits, haunt of pirates and monsters, the fastest route.

2. Stay close to land, trade with coastal towns and risk your enemies infiltrating or sabotaging the ship.

3. Skirt the Sea of Stormsreach, where no sane man travels, but risk being overcome by a tempest.

4. The Gulf of Masts, where the wind hardly blows, and risk being becalmed amongst the sunken hulks.

5. Take the deep ocean route, but one must stop for water and provisions on the legendary Black Isle.

[Woldan]

I support this idea, I've always liked big sailboats.

 

The issue of fire during the battle would be a concern. Tossing fireballs across could cause both ships to catch fire, so perhaps the game would need to impose a restriction on fire spells?

Make the battle happen in a stormy weather, the waves that wash over the decks would prevent the wood from catching fire. Two sailboats fighting during a thunderstorm in the middle of the ocean with giant waves crashing against the wooden ships would be very hard to top in terms of epicness.

[Nonek]

Of course the first lesson has to be never get off the boat, unless Wagnerian Dragonriders show up.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'm down, as long as Krakens are in.

[dodusieczek]

No.

[mcmanusaur]

Honestly, I think that blimp-to-blimp combat is something that far too many cRPG's overlook.

[Sensuki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6tZpuQPfko]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6tZpuQPfko Edited October 12, 2013 by Sensuki

[Tuckey]

If the 'player's ship' in some future game were to be treated as the 'stronghold' that would mean we get to design its layout and adornments, cannon ports, training and discipline of the crew etc.

 

In terms of engagements I would set the scene by allowing the player to make tactical decisions depending on your 'upgrade' decisions (using text) .

 

i.e. you may choose to via a volley via a flanking maneuver if your ship has the superior speed over the enemy ship. This would in turn reduce the strength of the enemy forces allowing your boarding action to proceed much easier than otherwise.

 

i.e. you have invested in a heavily fortified galleon compared to the enemy galleon (think of a spanish galleon) but can be easily out-maneuvered by the enemy ship. To nullify this advantage you force the enemy into a narrow strait where maneuvering is limited. To do this you must have upgraded the tactical awareness skill of the captain.

 

 

[rjshae]

Honestly, I think that blimp-to-blimp combat is something that far too many cRPG's overlook.

 

I don't see why aerial combat couldn't be included. Of course you'd lose the three-dimensional aspect of it, but the idea of battles between flying ships, flying carpets, or hippogriff-mounted troops across a sky area seems do-able. Perhaps have a hazy view of the ground below with cloud effects moving across the display.

[AGX-17]

Have you bothered to look at the P:E world map? It's a section of a larger body of land with some big lakes, and the ocean is peripheral. Besides, this is out of the realm of IE-style games. It would require the development of a functional tactical/strategy game mechanic (the systems which define characters can't apply to something like a ship, ships don't have intellect. Please don't say in response that there will be sentient ships.) The player is rather unlikely to be commanding armies and navies. If such a thing were going to be in a game, it would be a major feature and they would have said something to that effect by now.

 

The same applies to your added misinterpretation of a joke leading to attempts to justify the supposed existence of aerial combat in the game.

Edited October 12, 2013 by AGX-17

[rjshae]

Have you bothered to look at the P:E world map? It's a section of a larger body of land with some big lakes, and the ocean is peripheral. Besides, this is out of the realm of IE-style games. It would require the development of a functional tactical/strategy game mechanic (the systems which define characters can't apply to something like a ship, ships don't have intellect. Please don't say in response that there will be sentient ships.) The player is rather unlikely to be commanding armies and navies. If such a thing were going to be in a game, it would be a major feature and they would have said something to that effect by now.

 

The same applies to your added misinterpretation of a joke leading to attempts to justify the supposed existence of aerial combat in the game.

 

Your post reads like a feeble troll, but I'll respond.

1. Yes I've looked at the map. Guess what? There is an oceanic coastline with islands. Coastlines with port cities indicate sea travel between them. Did you bother to read my original post? It's about ship-vs.-ship battle, not major naval engagements. I believe I made clear in the initial post that this would require additional steps, so your assertions aren't insightful.
2. Yes I got the weak joke, and attempted to turn it into something constructive.

I'm sure the game will have plenty of bridges as well, so you should feel right at home.

Edited October 12, 2013 by rjshae

[jamoecw]

as for ship to ship and fire spells, a fireball spell could save a ship from an unprepared pirate ship pretty easily, all one has to do is aim for the sail.  druids could cast spells to give your ship a speed boost, or the enemy ship a speed debuff, or make a storm so that boarding is out of the question.  magic becomes pretty important, and a side without it loses pretty much automatically.  if you are a pirate and want to take a ship, just use chain lightning of the cannons.

 

without getting into possibilities like alluded to with arcanum (technology and magic don't mix, technological stuff has magical equivalent, etc.) i don't see how you could do a battle where a non caster has any real use other than fodder, that is not to say that there can't be ship to ship combat, but if so either magic is quite different than in D&D or your hands are tied based on plot.

 

in a sequel (of sorts) could be quite entertaining, sort of like a fantasy version of pirates, only you know, better.

[motorizer]

Like others, I think this would be good in a sequel, where it was part of the design from the start. and it should include other elements like sea monsters, storms, scurvy...etc...

 

but I wouldn't be against including it, though I doubt it would happen at this stage unless they already had something planned

[rjshae]

Text cutscene describing a pirate attack? As in King of Dragon Pass or Darklands, then cut to the battle and two ships upon the high seas, repel the enemy or suffer a spell in the enemies brig (with the appropriate opportunities to escape.) The actual sailing and voyage is all handled by the text and illustrations, with the battle being the only animated section.

 

Yes it would be easier to implement using this approach, then perhaps add the approach sequence with a subsequent release. Without the latter though it just becomes a conventional battle with some choke points and everybody wearing light or no armor. Hmm, I guess they could add in some attackers who swing over and drop behind the lines.

[Gumbercules]

 

Text cutscene describing a pirate attack? As in King of Dragon Pass or Darklands, then cut to the battle and two ships upon the high seas, repel the enemy or suffer a spell in the enemies brig (with the appropriate opportunities to escape.) The actual sailing and voyage is all handled by the text and illustrations, with the battle being the only animated section.

 

Yes it would be easier to implement using this approach, then perhaps add the approach sequence with a subsequent release. Without the latter though it just becomes a conventional battle with some choke points and everybody wearing light or no armor. Hmm, I guess they could add in some attackers who swing over and drop behind the lines.

 

 

I think everything we're talking about here would have to be for a subsequent release. There is a 0% chance that the first PE will have systematic ship travel and ship combat, and maybe a slight chance that there will be some one-off event taking place on a ship.

 

And even in a sequel, I see nothing wrong with the text + battles approach. WIth your last sentence you seem to be beginning to see the possibilities, but there's more. You can still incorporate cannons, ballistae, and grappling hooks into the action, stormy weather can play a role, there can be sea monsters that act differently from land-based monsters, and of course the layout of two ships side-by-side will be very different from most land-based battle maps. Additionally, there's a lot to be said for just the change in atmosphere and the story implications, even if battles did turn out to be exactly the same as land battles.

[rjshae]

 

 

Text cutscene describing a pirate attack? As in King of Dragon Pass or Darklands, then cut to the battle and two ships upon the high seas, repel the enemy or suffer a spell in the enemies brig (with the appropriate opportunities to escape.) The actual sailing and voyage is all handled by the text and illustrations, with the battle being the only animated section.

 

Yes it would be easier to implement using this approach, then perhaps add the approach sequence with a subsequent release. Without the latter though it just becomes a conventional battle with some choke points and everybody wearing light or no armor. Hmm, I guess they could add in some attackers who swing over and drop behind the lines.

 

 

I think everything we're talking about here would have to be for a subsequent release. There is a 0% chance that the first PE will have systematic ship travel and ship combat, and maybe a slight chance that there will be some one-off event taking place on a ship.

 

And even in a sequel, I see nothing wrong with the text + battles approach. WIth your last sentence you seem to be beginning to see the possibilities, but there's more. You can still incorporate cannons, ballistae, and grappling hooks into the action, stormy weather can play a role, there can be sea monsters that act differently from land-based monsters, and of course the layout of two ships side-by-side will be very different from most land-based battle maps. Additionally, there's a lot to be said for just the change in atmosphere and the story implications, even if battles did turn out to be exactly the same as land battles.

 

Yes, many of these have been mentioned already; please reach the prior postings. I was just adding an additional element that would make a simplified approach more interesting.

 

While adding elements like cannon shot and ballistae shot would make it more dramatic, it would likely require more in-depth development than just a simple approach animation. I'm not sure how much added value that would have. But possibly those could be treated as additional random events during the approach.

 

As for the timing of this addition: I see no harm in just discussing this as if it were feasible now. The developers are more than capable of determining the appropriate time (and budgeting) to include it. There's no need to fret on that account.

Edited October 14, 2013 by rjshae

[Gumbercules]

 

Yes, most of these have been mentioned already; please reach the prior postings. I was just adding an additional element that would make a simplified approach more interesting.

 

While adding elements like cannon shot and ballistae shot would make it more dramatic, it would likely require more in-depth development than just a simple approach animation. I'm not sure how much added value that would have. But I guess those could be treated as additional random events during the approach.

 

As for the timing of this addition: I seem no harm in just discussing this as if it were feasible now. The developers are more than capable of determining the appropriate time to include it.

 

 

I guess I do have some concern that too much of a focus on the details of sailing and maneuvering would distract from what people generally like in an RPG. Then again, the same could probably be said for the stronghold yet I'm looking forward to that, so it all depends on execution and I probably don't need to worry either way.

 

I agree that there's no harm in discussing this stuff now; it's quite an interesting discussion. Just saying that the chances of any of this being implemented in a sequel are uncertain, let alone in the first game.

[rjshae]

 

 

Yes, most of these have been mentioned already; please reach the prior postings. I was just adding an additional element that would make a simplified approach more interesting.

 

While adding elements like cannon shot and ballistae shot would make it more dramatic, it would likely require more in-depth development than just a simple approach animation. I'm not sure how much added value that would have. But I guess those could be treated as additional random events during the approach.

 

As for the timing of this addition: I seem no harm in just discussing this as if it were feasible now. The developers are more than capable of determining the appropriate time to include it.

 

 

I guess I do have some concern that too much of a focus on the details of sailing and maneuvering would distract from what people generally like in an RPG. Then again, the same could probably be said for the stronghold yet I'm looking forward to that, so it all depends on execution and I probably don't need to worry either way.

 

I agree that there's no harm in discussing this stuff now; it's quite an interesting discussion. Just saying that the chances of any of this being implemented in a sequel are uncertain, let alone in the first game.

 

Understood. Later releases will undoubtedly include additional elements not available in the first in order to add interest and perceived value. Personally I'd be okay with most of the sailing details getting abstracted, perhaps using a text dialogue.