Alternate Class names

[Messier-31]

Fighter sounds a bit dull to me but I don't mind the others.

 

Being able to rename the class for your own character would allow you to add a bit of flavour, you'd still be a fighter or whatever but the classname could be knight, gladiator, warrior, mercenary, axe maniac, pugilist...whatever you want to put in.

 

Something that adds a little to the background of your character.

 

I concur - "fighter" sounds like someone who fights in competition, like in a boxing ring (Steven Seagal style).

Simple "warrior" sounds like someone who wages war and is about to pillage the **** out of you.

[Osvir]

Skimmed but...

What about Class titles? In another thread I brought up an idea of "Multi-Paths" instead of "Multi-Classing". Maybe your Class can change title depending on how you build it? A so called "Class Change", except it wouldn't be a Class Change mechanically, only Class Title Change. I think it'd be nice as it could give some feedback to the Player about their "Class Build" decisions.

Example:
- I start off with a Fighter
- Get to level 5 with a Tank build or become good friends with a Guard Faction
- Fighter title becomes Soldier~ Guardian~ or whatever is most appropriate

Or a "sub-title". Still a Fighter, but get a secondary title in the bio or underneath the Class title.

I didn't play too much of Kingdoms of Amalur, but I did enjoy the Class system. Can PE draw some inspiration from the concept in KoA and do its own thing with it? (= mechanically appropriate to PE)

[JFSOCC]

so basically prestige classes?

[AGX-17]

As for the barbarian, I've always liked the term "Dreadnought" because they wade into battle with apparent fearlessness. (which may be seen as a lack of self preservation instincts)

 

From MW:

 

"Definition of DREADNOUGHT

 

1: a warm garment of thick cloth; also : the cloth

 

2 [Dreadnought, British battleship]

a : battleship

b : one that is among the largest or most powerful of its kind

 

First Known Use of DREADNOUGHT

 

1806"

 

So... in terms of definition and in terms of historical perspective, no. First known use is during the Industrial Revolution, not exactly P:E's setting, first known use had to do with textiles/clothing, not exactly what you're describing. That's not even counting the actual military history of the short-lived ship designation. What you're looking for is something like "berserker." Or "moron."

Edited October 13, 2013 by AGX-17

[Jarmo]

BTW

 

I've always disliked class names that are a profession, like Knight, Priest or Gladiator.

 

A knight is someone who's been knighted, made nobility. No reason why a knight couldn't be a rogue or ranger who's been knighted.

By some tellings, Robin Hood was a knight, then turned to live as a rogue. (Side note, did he multiclass into a rogue or ranger?)

 

A priest is employed by the church, a priest character shouldn't be completely free to do and go as he wills.

A gladiator likewise, how could you possibly call yourself a gladiator if you never fought or trained as one.

 

These can be dealt with by a good DM, but if used simply as class names without any extra baggage, I'd prefer more general namings.

[Osvir]

so basically prestige classes?

Prestige titles I suppose. Something you achieve in the game by doing stuff. In-Narrative "Achievements".

 

Become a Master Thief in the Thief Guild/Faction? Hey, maybe you're clansmen begin to call your character "The Shadow" and NPC villagers whisper about rumors of things disappearing, maybe they too give some sort of "name" to the character based on his/her actions.

 

Though, this is difficult to explain and it's really 2 different sections:

 

Section 1: Nicknames

- Gained by getting reputation in the game

- Different factions, different villages etc. etc. has different rep. meters

 

Section 2: Class Titles

- A Barbarian title turning into a Warmonger title.

- Title gained by building the Barbarian down a certain path.

 

For instance, let's take the Barb as an example here again:

- Barb Level 1

- Barb Level 2

* Pick-a-Perk, choose between 2

- Barb Level 3

- Barb Level 4

* Pick-a-Perk, choose between 2

- Barb is evolving....

- ... Barb evolved into Warmonger!

- Warmong Level 5

- Warmong Level 6

* Pick-a-Perk, choose between 2 (It is still the same Barbarian perks regardless, so you won't benefit anything special except an evolved "title" depending on your previous choices)

 

For instance, let's say I picked only "do as much damage as possible" related perks during leveling up, which is why my title would turn into "Warmonger". But if I had chosen something else like... throwing perks or abilities, or depending on my characters most favored weapon (Spear or Axe) my Barbarian's title could transform into "Spear Thrower" or "Axe Thrower" accordingly, or "War Shaman" or outright "Shaman" or "Wildling" etc. etc. depending on gear, stats, world-reactivity, narrative, factions <- That is wishful thinking, 

 

It would still be a Barbarian in its core, but the title could change depending on how the Player builds the class and plays it~

 

EDIT:

TL;DR: Let's say the Barbarian has a total of 10 Class specific Talents, but on one playthrough you'll only be able to have max 4 or 5 of all those skills. Depending on which 4-5 you pick your Barbarian could get a different title. 

Edited October 14, 2013 by Osvir

[Messier-31]

 

^ STUFF ABOVE

 

 

 

Quite long but read it anyway, heh.

 

Those are great ideas, I especially like the one with nicknames. You could get a nickname with some reputation factors, but also for doing something extraordinary? Lets say your PC slain some creature, or defeated some opponent (invincible until a duel with you). Again a flashback from my WHFR times: after defeating an ogre named Bull Drum, in a set-up tournament (so much luck), henceforth some people recognized the character as *CHARNAME*, the Bull Drum vanquisher.

 

Geralt of Rivia was also known as The White Wolf, Gwynbleidd, or The Butcher of Blaviken.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Messier-31

[JFSOCC]

 

As for the barbarian, I've always liked the term "Dreadnought" because they wade into battle with apparent fearlessness. (which may be seen as a lack of self preservation instincts)

 

From MW:

 

"Definition of DREADNOUGHT

 

1: a warm garment of thick cloth; also : the cloth

 

2 [Dreadnought, British battleship]

a : battleship

b : one that is among the largest or most powerful of its kind

 

First Known Use of DREADNOUGHT

 

1806"

 

So... in terms of definition and in terms of historical perspective, no. First known use is during the Industrial Revolution, not exactly P:E's setting, first known use had to do with textiles/clothing, not exactly what you're describing. That's not even counting the actual military history of the short-lived ship designation. What you're looking for is something like "berserker." Or "moron."

 

no, it's not. Do you think when the royal navy decided on the name for their ship they had idiots go "But we've never had this name before, it doesn't fit!"?

 

Because PE doesn't take place in our world, and a class which in it's essence is about fearless fighters should definitely have a name which indicates that.

Who cares where it was used in earth culture? I certainly don't.

Edited October 14, 2013 by JFSOCC

[Lephys]

@Osvir:

 

I really like the idea of the game lore actually addressing how people react to your character and what they call your character. And, what with an already good reputation system in place, it would already make sense for your actual title to change depending on reputation.

 

It makes me think of the George R. R. Martin A Song of Ice and Fire books, in which you have people like Davos being dubbed "The Onion Knight", even though he's basically a Rogue/pirate, or Sandor Clegane being dubbed "The Hound," both because he's ruthless like a wild dog, AND because he's sort of the Lannisters' guard dog. Though, those are a bit more precise than what I was thinking of as an "at least this" implementation for P:E.

 

The Onion Knight title is the better example, as it's based on his reputation. Davos doesn't even really consider himself any different just because he's technically received a Knight's title, now. And most people call him that to mock him, saying he's the Knight of Onions, and asking where his onion crest is. He was knighted for what he did, and a lot of people respect and appreciate him for what he did, but they're not describing his occupation/"class" (if he were a video game character), or they'd be calling him "pirate" or something.

 

But, yeah, a lot of games either just awkwardly avoid official titles altogether (substituting things like "obviously you know your way around a weapon" or "our magical friend here"), or pseudo-break the 4th wall by sort of tutorial-moding it up with gameplay-only class titles, right in the middle of serious dialogue. It'd be quite refreshing to see the reputation system handle the manner in which you're actually addressed. Even differently by different factions (some people would still just call Davos "pirate," some call him "Onion Knight," and some call him, respectfully, "Sir Davos.")

[Osvir]

There could also be some skill triggered NPC and world reaction. Vanity Titles.

- I use Pickpocket skill 100 times (total) w/ Rogue
- Class Title changes to "Thief". Does not change any stats or skill progression, just narrative reaction.
~ Although a Fighter, Wizard or someone else might be able to use the "Pickpocket" skill as well, only as a Rogue would you get the "Thief" title.
~ A Fighter could instead get "Bandit" or similar. "Scoundrel" maybe. Lots of variations.

Important to note that this would be an individual title for an individual party member. So if Aloth would become an Arch-Mage that wouldn't turn your main character into one. And if you'd pickpocket with a Rogue and it becomes a Thief, that wouldn't make anyone else in the party into Thieves.

Individual actions for individual characters~

Though, it'd be (to go even deeper) quite intruiging to see if a "Title Combination" could equal some extra in-narrative "Party Reputation".

"It is the Band of the Ruthless Savages!! Eeeek!" if you manage to get like 2-3 different titles on 2-3 characters in your party. If you'd go down a different path and you get 2-3 other titles for your party the NPC's might start calling the party "The Holy Saints"~

[Lephys]

^ I would only say this much: don't just allow the simple fact of your success with pickpocketing to warp your title as the public sees you. After all, the more successful you are at pickpocketing, the fewer people have any idea of your actions. So, like I said, I would just want to make sure it was tied to the reputation system. This would even allow for titles (such as "Thief") for which you didn't ACTUALLY perform the actions people believe you did (In the TV series, White Collar, main-character Neal Caffrey takes credit for one or more high-end heists that he didn't actually perform.), either intentionally or unintentionally.

[Karkarov]

Again you guys put too much emphasis on class name.  No one is a "fighter" they are a mercenary, a town guard, a militiaman, an adventurer, a monster hunter.... blah blah blah.  Class names are generic for a reason, classes are just a loose definition of your skill set.. they are not what you actually "are" or "do".  That would be your occupation. There are a few class names that can almost be used as job titles, but they are the exception not the rule.  Later versions of D&D went overboard with a lot of things, prestige classes and being extremely anal about class names was two of those things.  Leave them out.

[Chairchucker]

I propose the rogue be renamed 'Facestabber'. All Facestabbers will have as a base class talent the ability to stab people hard in the face over and over again.

[Lephys]

I propose the rogue be renamed 'Facestabber'. All Facestabbers will have as a base class talent the ability to stab people hard in the face over and over again.

Would this ability be called "Frontstab"? And would it deal .5X normal damage, instead of 1.5X like a BACKstab?

 

Karkarov, I'm not sure who you're suggesting is putting too much emphasis on class names. As far as I know, Osvir and myself were merely rolling with the idea of titles (or whatever word you want to use); what people call you as separate from your class name, as most of the time (as you pointed out), no one's going to refer to you by your class name. That's not what class names are for. That's why I pointed out how silly it was that other games either just use them like nothing's weird, or awkwardly avoid using them without actually handling titles or anything of the sort; they refer to the fact that you're a fighter, or a rogue, but just don't use any particular word (i.e. "We could really use someone with your magical skillset" for a Mage, etc.).

[Karkarov]

 

I propose the rogue be renamed 'Facestabber'. All Facestabbers will have as a base class talent the ability to stab people hard in the face over and over again.

Would this ability be called "Frontstab"? And would it deal .5X normal damage, instead of 1.5X like a BACKstab?

 

Karkarov, I'm not sure who you're suggesting is putting too much emphasis on class names. As far as I know, Osvir and myself were merely rolling with the idea of titles (or whatever word you want to use); what people call you as separate from your class name, as most of the time (as you pointed out), no one's going to refer to you by your class name. That's not what class names are for. That's why I pointed out how silly it was that other games either just use them like nothing's weird, or awkwardly avoid using them without actually handling titles or anything of the sort; they refer to the fact that you're a fighter, or a rogue, but just don't use any particular word (i.e. "We could really use someone with your magical skillset" for a Mage, etc.).

 

I wasn't calling out an individual just making a statement about the whole thing.  I agree there should be something in game that lets you have some sort of "defining role" that the game/NPC's identifies you by.  For an easy example Dragon Age: Origins, where everyone basically called you "Warden" because that's what you were regardless of your class... a Grey Warden. 

 

Doing something like that in game would be smart because it makes sense, adds immersion, and really isn't hard to implement at all.  If they do it in a way that also gives us power of choice over what that title is somehow.... even better.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Karkarov

[Lephys]

I wasn't calling out an individual just making a statement about the whole thing.

Ahh. My bad. I didn't know, and now I do. For what it's worth, I agree on that. In general, the name for a class has aesthetic quality, at best, and isn't really a huge deal. The ones that DO make sense as titles, though, should probably be made sure they don't sound silly and/or that they flow well. But then, they pretty much already do. Like "Paladin," or "cipher." In the Cipher update, for example, they provided the lore behind how the term "cipher" came to be used to describe them. And, that class is so unique, unlike "fighter," the term can actually be used to distinguish members of that class from others.

 

So, yeah, titles and class names. Sometimes they overlap, sometimes they don't. If the game pays attention to titles/roles by which our characters are called, regardless of whatever our class name happens to be, then awesome, ^_^

[Chairchucker]

 

I propose the rogue be renamed 'Facestabber'. All Facestabbers will have as a base class talent the ability to stab people hard in the face over and over again.

Would this ability be called "Frontstab"? And would it deal .5X normal damage, instead of 1.5X like a BACKstab?

 

 

Come now, let's not tie ourselves to DnD ideas of game mechanics. Clearly if the enemy is not expecting to be stabbed in the face, a facestab would be very effective.

 

Of course, when facing a facestabber, I guess one would probably be quite wary of being stabbed in the face. Perhaps the facestabber should have some cunning tricks at his disposal to draw attention away from the things that he is planning to stab into someone's face.

[Lephys]

Come now, let's not tie ourselves to DnD ideas of game mechanics. Clearly if the enemy is not expecting to be stabbed in the face, a facestab would be very effective.

 

Of course, when facing a facestabber, I guess one would probably be quite wary of being stabbed in the face. Perhaps the facestabber should have some cunning tricks at his disposal to draw attention away from the things that he is planning to stab into someone's face.

What if the dagger in his hand is just a decoy, and he keeps a dagger up his hat, that sort of mechanically folds out (like those hidden-in-your-sleeve pistols that pop out into your hand!) onto his forehead, and he LITERALLY stabs you using his face (forehead... he headbutts you with a forehead dagger)?!!! 8D!

 

The term is still apt, AND misleading, at the same time. "Oh, he's going to stab me in the face... I'd better prep-... WITH his face?!!! I was NOT expecting that!"

[AGX-17]

BTW

 

I've always disliked class names that are a profession, like Knight, Priest or Gladiator.

 

A knight is someone who's been knighted, made nobility. No reason why a knight couldn't be a rogue or ranger who's been knighted.

By some tellings, Robin Hood was a knight, then turned to live as a rogue. (Side note, did he multiclass into a rogue or ranger?)

 

A priest is employed by the church, a priest character shouldn't be completely free to do and go as he wills.

A gladiator likewise, how could you possibly call yourself a gladiator if you never fought or trained as one.

 

These can be dealt with by a good DM, but if used simply as class names without any extra baggage, I'd prefer more general namings.

Knight is a noble title, semantics. Priests aren't "employed," they're devoted to their religion. They don't get a salary from the Pope. Protestant preachers aren't part of any bureaucratic heirarchy, they're independent and the only qualification they have is their reputation and their charisma/ability to rile people up. Priests, bishops, cardinals and the like were never chained to a pulpit. These are people who were just as subject to exile, defamation and assassination as any other member of the elite in medieval times.

 

As for gladiators (who, along with knights, aren't a class in P:E,) they were, for the most part, slaves who fought to entertain the masses in the Roman era. They were trained and utilized methods of combat which had no value to actual warfare (nobody ever went into a real battle with a trident and fishing net.)

 

tl;dr It's not an issue because none of your concerns are present in the game so far as anyone is aware.

 

no, it's not. Do you think when the royal navy decided on the name for their ship they had idiots go "But we've never had this name before, it doesn't fit!"?

 

Because PE doesn't take place in our world, and a class which in it's essence is about fearless fighters should definitely have a name which indicates that.

Who cares where it was used in earth culture? I certainly don't.

Dreadnought is a specific term with specific origins that does not fit what you are describing. If you're so desperate for barbarians to not be called barbarians you should propose an original term and not a term which comes from the real world and blatantly doesn't fit the qualities of a "barbarian" in RPG parlance. Keeping in mind that "barbarian" is from ancient Greek and refers simply to "anyone who does not speak Greek." Which is a euphemism for "lesser peoples who are not civilized, as the Hellenes are the only civilized people on Earth."

 

Barbarians in most RPGs exist in worlds where Hellas and Hellenes don't exist, so it's not even an appropriate term to begin with. Like Dreadnought.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I don't have a problem with Rogues doing more damage that Fighters. You'll probably find the Rogues will have less hit points and are more squishy than Fighters. Seems to work well in pnp D&D and should work well in P:E.

[JFSOCC]

 

BTW

 

I've always disliked class names that are a profession, like Knight, Priest or Gladiator.

 

A knight is someone who's been knighted, made nobility. No reason why a knight couldn't be a rogue or ranger who's been knighted.

By some tellings, Robin Hood was a knight, then turned to live as a rogue. (Side note, did he multiclass into a rogue or ranger?)

 

A priest is employed by the church, a priest character shouldn't be completely free to do and go as he wills.

A gladiator likewise, how could you possibly call yourself a gladiator if you never fought or trained as one.

 

These can be dealt with by a good DM, but if used simply as class names without any extra baggage, I'd prefer more general namings.

Knight is a noble title, semantics. Priests aren't "employed," they're devoted to their religion. They don't get a salary from the Pope. Protestant preachers aren't part of any bureaucratic heirarchy, they're independent and the only qualification they have is their reputation and their charisma/ability to rile people up. Priests, bishops, cardinals and the like were never chained to a pulpit. These are people who were just as subject to exile, defamation and assassination as any other member of the elite in medieval times.

 

As for gladiators (who, along with knights, aren't a class in P:E,) they were, for the most part, slaves who fought to entertain the masses in the Roman era. They were trained and utilized methods of combat which had no value to actual warfare (nobody ever went into a real battle with a trident and fishing net.)

 

tl;dr It's not an issue because none of your concerns are present in the game so far as anyone is aware.

 

no, it's not. Do you think when the royal navy decided on the name for their ship they had idiots go "But we've never had this name before, it doesn't fit!"?

 

Because PE doesn't take place in our world, and a class which in it's essence is about fearless fighters should definitely have a name which indicates that.

Who cares where it was used in earth culture? I certainly don't.

Dreadnought is a specific term with specific origins that does not fit what you are describing. If you're so desperate for barbarians to not be called barbarians you should propose an original term and not a term which comes from the real world and blatantly doesn't fit the qualities of a "barbarian" in RPG parlance. Keeping in mind that "barbarian" is from ancient Greek and refers simply to "anyone who does not speak Greek." Which is a euphemism for "lesser peoples who are not civilized, as the Hellenes are the only civilized people on Earth."

 

Barbarians in most RPGs exist in worlds where Hellas and Hellenes don't exist, so it's not even an appropriate term to begin with. Like Dreadnought.

 

Barbarian comes from Latin, and means stutterer, because the Germanic languages sounded like stuttering to the Romans.

And Dreadnought is not a specific term with specific origins, the battleship is just the first official use. Because it was a ship which had to fear nothing. This is pretty much exactly what fits the barbarian class.

 

"If you're so desperate for barbarians to not be called barbarians you should propose an original term and not a term which comes from the real world and blatantly doesn't fit the qualities of a "barbarian" in RPG parlance." -1. Don't put words in my mouth I haven't spoken. 2. All terms will come from the real world or they're meaningless, you idiot. 3. My proposed term fits the class as snugly as any name ever could.