Someting just hit my brain some question about our stronghold

[okkoko]

how will the upgrading be done of the stronghold?

while in nwn 2 i never got the feeling of a keep being build other by magical means

all i had to do to progress the building process was to leave the map and return

and pay up some more gold..

 

now when building my stronghold in PE will i see workers and mages levitating stones to?

[kabaliero]

now i'm thinkin' of all the innocent guest workers who perished on Deathstar

 

 

upd: when it exploded

 

upd2: no spoilers made, right?

Edited September 2, 2013 by kabaliero

[eimatshya]

I'm guessing we won't see a lot of the building process. That seems like it would be resource intensive to create, and I suspect the devs have more important things to focus on.

 

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be cool, just that I imagine it's low on Obsidian's priorities for the game.

[jamoecw]

having the building process take i game time might be feasible to so without increasing dev resources.  not sure on the time frame the game is supposed to take place, so i don't know how feasible it is, hopefully it spans some decent amount of years. though in previous games you tended to operate pretty fast, in the 3.0 D&D DMG it says that as a rule of thumb one level = 1 year (mainly for world building), yet in BG in a matter of days (sometimes a lot, sometimes a little) you go from lvl 1 to level 5+, and in NWN you go from 1 to 10+ in one day.  so depending on pacing it can be problematic to have any sort of build time (too short in game = no time to build, too long in game = irrelevant build time).  it would be nice for a game to have a chapter broken up with some decent down time to show that you don't go from a complete wuss to demi god over night.

[rjshae]

I guess some stone blocks, wooden scaffolding and a medieval winch would be fairly easy to implement. The developers could just clone those and move them around (as an overlay graphic) each time the player visits.

Edited September 2, 2013 by rjshae

[Tuckey]

All a question of priorities I guess and what Obsidian wishes to focus on. I am all for adding life to things as I think the biggest flaw with IE games was that there was not enough dynamic elements. ie/ the waterfall picture would not of been possible in an IE game and adds a lot of vitality. Similarly IE cities would of benefited from seeing things like horse drawn wagons entering and exiting the city. People moving about on their tasks etc

[Night Stalker]

While it would be nice to see workers going to-and-fro, hammering the same board and lifting stone blocks into stoneblocks, I would rather see the resources going into new assets and polish.

[JFSOCC]

While it would be nice to see workers going to-and-fro, hammering the same board and lifting stone blocks into stoneblocks, I would rather see the resources going into new assets and polish.

I think this is polish, and I hope a significant amount of energy is put into it.

[okkoko]

well i cant im *Dream if even i try seer an ate-mp of doing so whyle it my dream of soemting done good real crazy but behaves also a like well lets just say . what would you do if you had one opsion in the game with many  to say the least one other thing im a vegitarian well that said lets contenu events ermm ups now i lost it again

[Chaos Theory]

I always felt the whole keep stuff in NWN2 was meant to include much more, yet was part of the very obvious last-minute hacking of the game prior to release.  For instance, the "Captain's Company" was never seen or heard from again even though such a big deal was made of it when it was formed.  I hope PE can bring some of those ideas forward this time.  

Edited September 3, 2013 by Chaos Theory

[Lephys]

It's clear now that, when some of us play... we play for keeps.

 

Really, though, it's likely they can incorporate a reasonable amount of building-type upgrades with the stronghold without making things overly complex. Unless the narrative doesn't last longer than a couple of months, total, there's probably time to construct lots of improvements, such as gate reinforcements, forge improvements, barracks upgrades, digging out an old well, etc. There are plenty of things that could both functionally and narratively enhance the gameplay that don't take forever-and-a-day to do.

[JFSOCC]

well i cant im *Dream if even i try seer an ate-mp of doing so whyle it my dream of soemting done good real crazy but behaves also a like well lets just say . what would you do if you had one opsion in the game with many  to say the least one other thing im a vegitarian well that said lets contenu events ermm ups now i lost it again

I like your new avatar okkoko, but could you rephrase this so I actually understand what you are saying?

[JFSOCC]

I just hope there will be choices in upgrades. IE you could dig out that old well, or you could divert a nearby stream so you'd have flowing water. You could build that defensivee tower there, or it could be an observatory, or, a meditation chamber, etc etc.

[okkoko]

I just hope there will be choices in upgrades. IE you could dig out that old well, or you could divert a nearby stream so you'd have flowing water. You could build that defensivee tower there, or it could be an observatory, or, a meditation chamber, etc etc.

wizard tower ? and behaves many fantasy module to add to the stronghold

Edited September 5, 2013 by okkoko

[Quadrone]

I see questions similar to this one asked now and then again, so maybe it's necessary to remind us all again:

This is a Kickstarter game. The amount of money Obsidian gathered is high for a Kickstarter but not very high compared to traditional Publisher funded development. That means that they are actually on a quite strict budget and will have to cut corners where ever possible.

 

Completly animated groups of craftsmen upgrading our stronghold is probably somewhere behind "hair realistcly blowing in the wind" on the list of priorities, I'd wager.

Actually having a broken/repaired state for every separate part of the stronghold we're able to upgrade is pretty amazing to me.

[okkoko]

as to many things the Dev did tell us that building game world around characters perspective like that designing each character levels get me to thing a stronghold is close to that

[Giantevilhead]

Let your disappointment in the lack of animation be soothed by the knowledge that your stronghold will be built upon the bleached bones of your enemies by tortured souls bound to your will through the vile rituals of unspeakable evil.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Let your disappointment in the lack of animation be soothed by the knowledge that your stronghold will be built upon the bleached bones of your enemies by tortured souls bound to your will through the vile rituals of unspeakable evil.

I take it your in-laws are building it then?

[okkoko]

 

well i cant im *Dream if even i try seer an ate-mp of doing so whyle it my dream of soemting done good real crazy but behaves also a like well lets just say . what would you do if you had one opsion in the game with many  to say the least one other thing im a vegitarian well that said lets contenu events ermm ups now i lost it again

I like your new avatar okkoko, but could you rephrase this so I actually understand what you are saying?

 

i thought about it im sure for a kickstarter game PE is well founded im sure stronghold was a mile stone in the kickstart goals so ho w much money did they need for reaching this milestone 4,5 mill  usd here is a link http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64350-update-63-stronghold/ might add it it could be spoiling us

[UpgrayeDD]

 

While it would be nice to see workers going to-and-fro, hammering the same board and lifting stone blocks into stoneblocks, I would rather see the resources going into new assets and polish.

I think this is polish, and I hope a significant amount of energy is put into it.

. The biggest problem I have with fluff like this aside from it needing more resources than it is worth(IMO) is that the people who want to add such a feature would never be happy anyways. They would complain that they kept hammering the same spot. That they didn't have a big enough stockpile of resources for the work. Where are the lodging for the workers? Why can't I have "deep immersive" conversations with handyman 13? Where are their daily schedules? Why aren't they getting delayed by the weather? Why didn't their clothing change with the seasons?

I could go on but the point is people who want and love fluff are never satisfied with the current level of fluff and are always demanding more. They also tend to act rather cluelessly as to how much dev time would be needed to put in everything they want. I personally think that their time is much better served being put to use elsewhere.

[Lephys]

^ That's true of some people, but not of all. Still, it's a valid point.

 

It's one of those things that, if you can get a good bit out of very little work (i.e. villagers at least moving about and pretending to talk to one another -- if you already have those animations created -- as opposed to just standing around for eternity -- pun TOTALLY intended), then I say do it. OR, if you can afford to put in the work to make it actually significant and more than just fluff (actual "realistic" schedules for people, oodles of factors accounted for, etc.), then totally go for it. But, nothing in between.

 

Basically... consistency. I don't need to see a wood carver utilizing the exact, actual motions of a real-life wood-carver and performing every single task, throughout his day, that a real woodcarver would do, JUST for the town to seem alive. And, if I do see that, and I don't see everything else done with the same level of detail, then that's going to spotlight an inconsistency, whether I voluntarily focus on finding it or not.

 

I don't mind such things being called "fluff," I suppose, but it seems like people sometimes use that word in almost a mocking/belittling fashion, as if it's completely meaningless. Go play a game with absolutely no townsfolk animations whatsoever, or ambient noises, or music, or detail in any processes, and then say that those things are merely fluff.

 

Obviously it's not all-or-nothing. But like I said, I think the important thing is consistency. IF you've got the resources, then cool. But keep the same level of detail across the board. And don't go beyond a certain amount unless the mechanics and gameplay actually support it (e.g. in the TES games, the fact that they "so realistically" move about and perform daily life tasks pretty much just makes people HARDER to find, and it's still not quite detailed enough for it to really have the effect of feeling like the townsfolk are real people, so they probably could've dropped their goal down a peg and just polished off the system with a bit more abstraction in mind, while supporting the gameplay more.)

[JFSOCC]

 

 

While it would be nice to see workers going to-and-fro, hammering the same board and lifting stone blocks into stoneblocks, I would rather see the resources going into new assets and polish.

I think this is polish, and I hope a significant amount of energy is put into it.

 

. The biggest problem I have with fluff like this aside from it needing more resources than it is worth(IMO) is that the people who want to add such a feature would never be happy anyways. They would complain that they kept hammering the same spot. That they didn't have a big enough stockpile of resources for the work. Where are the lodging for the workers? Why can't I have "deep immersive" conversations with handyman 13? Where are their daily schedules? Why aren't they getting delayed by the weather? Why didn't their clothing change with the seasons?

I could go on but the point is people who want and love fluff are never satisfied with the current level of fluff and are always demanding more. They also tend to act rather cluelessly as to how much dev time would be needed to put in everything they want. I personally think that their time is much better served being put to use elsewhere.

 

considering how fast things are going, I'm beginning to think it's a lot less work than you seem to think it is. And I rather have a little polish than no polish.

[UpgrayeDD]

 

considering how fast things are going, I'm beginning to think it's a lot less work than you seem to think it is. And I rather have a little polish than no polish.

 

 They were talking about only having single attack animations for all weapon types because they likely would not have the time or resources for more.  So spending dev time on saw and hammer animations doesn't seem like best use of the animators time.  If it means the difference between having another new location to explore or seeing people build my stronghold I'd have to side new location.  In my mind I doubt that I'd spend more than the very beginings of a building being built before I'm already off on a new adventure so a feature like this doesn't really appeal at all to me.

 

I consider something fluff when it can take the some ammount of time and effort as something that can actually impact play but has no impact on the game in any meaningful way.  And putting time and effort into how the buildings look before they are actually built seems like something thats too little return for the effort needed.  Again my opinion.

[Valorian]

 They were talking about only having single attack animations for all weapon types because they likely would not have the time or resources for more. 

 

Right. I hope things have changed in the meantime because watching a single auto-attack animation being executed by your character 100% of the time is.. I aborted the image in my mind. :D Ok, it would not be the end of the world, but it would be boooring.

[Lephys]

Right. I hope things have changed in the meantime because watching a single auto-attack animation being executed by your character 100% of the time is.. I aborted the image in my mind. :D Ok, it would not be the end of the world, but it would be boooring.

There's nothing quite like watching your veteran mercenary-type party run around swinging sharp, metal objects every 4-5 seconds as if they've just recently discovered how to use their arms.