Russia passes more homophobia laws

[Hurlshort]

If the athletes are staying silent, that is a pretty solid indicator. It would be super easy to just say it was congratulatory.

[Leferd]

As usual Americans know nothing about different cultures.

 

 

1) I've lived 5 years abroad in a culture that is neither Western, liberal, or predominantly christian.

 

2) I currently live in an area where there is no ethnicity that is in the majority. 

 

3) To be specific, my neighbors to the right, left, front, front right, and front left, are all of different ethnicity/cultures.

 

4) I am not part of the ethnic majority in my country. 

 

Can you say the same about yourself?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

As usual Americans know nothing about different cultures.

 

 

1) I've lived 5 years abroad in a culture that is neither Western, liberal, or predominantly christian.

 

2) I currently live in an area where there is no ethnicity that is in the majority. 

 

3) To be specific, my neighbors to the right, left, front, front right, and front left, are all of different ethnicity/cultures.

 

4) I am not part of the ethnic majority in my country. 

 

Can you say the same about yourself?

Seeing as oby is nothing but an alt that has gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaay past its mileage, I would say no.

[Elerond]

If the athletes are staying silent, that is a pretty solid indicator. It would be super easy to just say it was congratulatory.

 

It isn't necessary that simple as many of the athletes get most of their income from sponsorship contracts and positive media attention, at least in EU and US, usually gurantees you much better contracts, so it wouldn't necessary in bussinesswise be good idea to say anything that contradict that media attention. And one could think that there is no heavy demand in Russia to get any statement from those athletes as now it lessens Western media's scrutiny against Russia, and it can be used against Western media as Russians can say that Western media don't understand Russian culture. So being silent is in my opinion best course of action that they could take towards that kiss, because saying it was only congrarulator kiss don't win them anything and saying that it was political statement would bring them problems in Russia and maybe also with IAAF that don't allow political statement in its championships.

[Malcador]

If the athletes are staying silent, that is a pretty solid indicator. It would be super easy to just say it was congratulatory.

Or that no one's been asking them about it. Oh the Olympics are going to be good, at least the Western coverage, anaylzing every act of every athlete

[Leferd]

 

If the athletes are staying silent, that is a pretty solid indicator. It would be super easy to just say it was congratulatory.

 

It isn't necessary that simple as many of the athletes get most of their income from sponsorship contracts and positive media attention, at least in EU and US, usually gurantees you much better contracts, so it wouldn't necessary in bussinesswise be good idea to say anything that contradict that media attention. And one could think that there is no heavy demand in Russia to get any statement from those athletes as now it lessens Western media's scrutiny against Russia, and it can be used against Western media as Russians can say that Western media don't understand Russian culture. So being silent is in my opinion best course of action that they could take towards that kiss, because saying it was only congrarulator kiss don't win them anything and saying that it was political statement would bring them problems in Russia and maybe also with IAAF that don't allow political statement in its championships.

 

 

Yup.

[Wrath of Dagon]

WoD I am not giving you my interpretation, I am telling you how schools are implementing it. You are correct that it was already possible before the law, that is why I keep saying most schools have already implemented it. What it does is force any teachers or administrators who were not willing to accomodate transgender students into doing so.

They couldn't have been "implementing" the law because the law is only a few days old. Just because you believe the law should produce certain results, does not mean that is what's legally required. A law is not a suggestion, it takes away rights from some and gives them to others. In a few months you should be able to see what the actual "implementation" looks like.

 

 

 

 

 

The do-gooder Western liberal, who will not rest until the world as we know it is wiped out.

 

 

I blame lobbying. With enough money and resources you can convince the public of anything.

 

A Gallup survey (I believe on a 20000 strong sample) found that Americans believe that over 30% of their countrymen are gay (actual numbers go from 1% to 3.6%). Its beyond incredible. Strong media presence managed to convince people of something that can be refuted by simple observation made by a person of less than average intelligence. 

 

A public so overwhelmingly easy to convince of anything, will, eventually, support anything.

 

Yes, it was an all out push, politically, in the news media, and most importantly in the entertainment media.

[Leferd]

Being a connoisseur of the 4x400, I would be remiss if I didn't point out that this was actually one hell of a great race!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f324aAjGZP4

[Fighter]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/russian-gold-medalists-kiss-medal-stand-world-championships-132337366.html

 

LOL. That's a loaded and wishful interpretation if I ever saw one.

[Hurlshort]

 

They couldn't have been "implementing" the law because the law is only a few days old. Just because you believe the law should produce certain results, does not mean that is what's legally required. A law is not a suggestion, it takes away rights from some and gives them to others. In a few months you should be able to see what the actual "implementation" looks like.

 

 

Whelp, thanks for letting me know that.

 

The largest school district in California already has this policy, by the way.  This was their official statement about it:

Since the LAUSD implemented its policy, there has been a transformation in the district's schools. Now numerous transgender students are succeeding, with the help and support of their families and schools.

Opponents of A.B. 1266 have expressed concerns that students will abuse the policy, imperiling the safety of others. But our experience stands in stark contrast to such fears: In all the years since the LAUSD implemented its policy, we have encountered nothing but positive results. We are committed to providing safe schools for all children. Our equal access policy enhances, rather than diminishes, school safety.

In fact, both parents and students have welcomed the news that transgender students in our school district have access to bathrooms that correspond to their gender identity.

 

 

Here is another comment:

 

Sen. Ricardo Lara, D-Bell Gardens, said several major California school districts have had similar policies for years covering thousands of students.

"To date there's been no single reported incident of any misconduct," Lara said. "Let's not confuse silly behavior issues with sensitive gender identity issues." 

 

 

Look, you've clearly fallen prey to some media hysteria here.  I am giving you legitimate information from people involved in education, and you are ignoring it.  That's not healthy.  Do your news sources even talk to anyone involved in the California education system?  

[Wrath of Dagon]

What news sources, I'm reading the law you yourself posted, the comments from the schools really don't address anything specific, so no way to tell if they're lying or not. For example, are they allowing boys into girls locker rooms and showers or not? No way to tell from those statements.

[Hurlshort]

I already explained to you exactly how it works.  I'm not sure why you are confused.  The law says they have access to the facilities.  It does not say they have to access them while other students are using them.  None of the transgender students my wife has had would even want to be in the girls locker room at the same time as other students.  They just want a place they can feel comfortable, that doesn't mean it needs to make all the other students uncomfortable.  

 

 

You do understand that before this, legally, if a transgender boy who identifies as a girl went into a female restroom, even when unoccupied, they could face major consequences?  This protects them from that. 

 

edit:  Also no one showers anymore, except in swimming, and most kids are so self conscious they do so in their suits.  Plus most remodeled locker rooms have private stalls rather than communal showers.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Hurlshot

[BruceVC]

I already explained to you exactly how it works.  I'm not sure why you are confused.  The law says they have access to the facilities.  It does not say they have to access them while other students are using them.  None of the transgender students my wife has had would even want to be in the girls locker room at the same time as other students.  They just want a place they can feel comfortable, that doesn't mean it needs to make all the other students uncomfortable.  

 

 

You do understand that before this, legally, if a transgender boy who identifies as a girl went into a female restroom, even when unoccupied, they could face major consequences?  This protects them from that. 

 

edit:  Also no one showers anymore, except in swimming, and most kids are so self conscious they do so in their suits.  Plus most remodeled locker rooms have private stalls rather than communal showers.

 

This makes perfect sense to me and isn't confusing at all. Well done California for trying to address this social issue in a way that causes as less distress to pupils as possible. In South Africa we have legalized same sex marriages and your sexual orientation is protected in our constitution but I haven't heard anything about how we protect the rights of transgender pupils at schools, so you guys ahead of us in that respect. I also never thought about the considerations of transgender kids in schools. So its interesting 

[obyknven]

 

As usual Americans know nothing about different cultures.

 

 

1) I've lived 5 years abroad in a culture that is neither Western, liberal, or predominantly christian.

 

2) I currently live in an area where there is no ethnicity that is in the majority. 

 

3) To be specific, my neighbors to the right, left, front, front right, and front left, are all of different ethnicity/cultures.

 

4) I am not part of the ethnic majority in my country. 

 

Can you say the same about yourself?

 

Why you newer hear about friendly kiss then? Do you not understand what IRL all you belongs to one culture - American culture of consumption (or culture of one-dimensional people), you all do some thing and think some thing, this forum is best proof about this.

 

 

Main problem of modern Western culture and society is alienation (it's problem only for common peolpe, ruling elite very like this effect).  It's too long to explain read One-Dimension man if you want moar.

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/marcuse/works/one-dimensional-man/index.htm

 

Propaganda of gayness increase alienation of people, because it's destroy friendship between people.  Any manifestations of friendship become manifestations of gays in your society - people avoid this ( not too many people want look's like gays ) and as  result friedenship not survived in your world. For example these guys look's like good friends for Russians, but Westling's don't known what friendship is, they known only gayness and these good people look's like gays for them.

http://youtu.be/ANC2zs1GjRE

[BruceVC]

 

 

As usual Americans know nothing about different cultures.

 

 

1) I've lived 5 years abroad in a culture that is neither Western, liberal, or predominantly christian.

 

2) I currently live in an area where there is no ethnicity that is in the majority. 

 

3) To be specific, my neighbors to the right, left, front, front right, and front left, are all of different ethnicity/cultures.

 

4) I am not part of the ethnic majority in my country. 

 

Can you say the same about yourself?

 

Why you newer hear about friendly kiss then? Do you not understand what IRL all you belongs to one culture - American culture of consumption (or culture of one-dimensional people), you all do some thing and think some thing, this forum is best proof about this.

 

 

Main problem of modern Western culture and society is alienation (it's problem only for common peolpe, ruling elite very like this effect).  It's too long to explain read One-Dimension man if you want moar.

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/marcuse/works/one-dimensional-man/index.htm

 

Propaganda of gayness increase alienation of people, because it's destroy friendship between people.  Any manifestations of friendship become manifestations of gays in your society - people avoid this ( not too many people want look's like gays ) and as  result friedenship not survived in your world. For example these guys look's like good friends for Russians, but Westling's don't known what friendship is, they known only gayness and these good people look's like gays for them.

http://youtu.be/ANC2zs1GjRE

 

 

The fact that Russians have a perceived idea of what gayness is actually a problem with your culture and what you consider is acceptable. This is something that you need to work on to get the level of equality that you should want to.

Also you do realize there are gay people out there who look like you, talk like you and act like you. So I'm not what you mean when you say "people want to avoid looking like gays"

 

That is just another uninformed generalization

[obyknven]

The fact that Russians have a perceived idea of what gayness is actually a problem with your culture and what you consider is acceptable. This is something that you need to work on to get the level of equality that you should want to.

Also you do realize there are gay people out there who look like you, talk like you and act like you. So I'm not what you mean when you say "people want to avoid looking like gays"

 

That is just another uninformed generalization

But it's Western media represent friendly kiss of winners as gay marker. It's american citiezen say what "Men sitting together on the couch side of the table in a cafe, or drinking juice from straws" looks like gays. It's Western problem, not ours.

[BruceVC]

 

The fact that Russians have a perceived idea of what gayness is actually a problem with your culture and what you consider is acceptable. This is something that you need to work on to get the level of equality that you should want to.

Also you do realize there are gay people out there who look like you, talk like you and act like you. So I'm not what you mean when you say "people want to avoid looking like gays"

 

That is just another uninformed generalization

But it's Western media represent friendly kiss of winners as gay marker. It's american citiezen say what "Men sitting together on the couch side of the table in a cafe, or drinking juice from straws" looks like gays. It's Western problem, not ours.

 

 

Oh sorry, I misunderstood you

 

And you are right its wrong to position affection by men as being anything more than it is. Or also to assume something like drinking a pink drink or wearing a pink shirt ( and this happened to me at a customer recently) means you "must be gay or it looks gay"

[HoonDing]

Putin sure has good taste in men

 

 

[obyknven]

Obama’s Gay-Rights Hypocrisy

 

 

‘What,” Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani was asked, “is [islam’s] judgment on sodomy and lesbianism?”

“Forbidden,” he curtly pronounced. “Those involved in the act should be punished. In fact, sodomites should be killed in the worst manner possible.”

So what does Barack Obama have to say about that?

 

http://nationalreview.com/article/355715/obamas-gay-rights-hypocrisy-andrew-c-mccarthy

[Drowsy Emperor]

The usual double standards.

[Malcador]

Well come on, it involves a leader. It's mandated you have to have double standards based on 'interests' when you head a state, bull**** mongering and all.

[BruceVC]

Just the fact that Obama said those things is a good thing and a clear message he supports equality, why does he now have to mention specific countries outside of Russia? His view is obvious. I see no hypocrisy.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Well come on, it involves a leader. It's mandated you have to have double standards based on 'interests' when you head a state, bull**** mongering and all.

 

Its a good question as to what interests could possibly be served by worsening the relations with Russia. Maybe its a response to the Snowden thing.

[Elerond]

 

Well come on, it involves a leader. It's mandated you have to have double standards based on 'interests' when you head a state, bull**** mongering and all.

 

Its a good question as to what interests could possibly be served by worsening the relations with Russia. Maybe its a response to the Snowden thing.

 

 

To me it seems as part of typical powerplay between USA and Russia. As USA's hunt of Snowden and NSA scandals has been seen somewhat dubious things and Russia collect somewhat easy points by giving Snowden an asylum and so pointing out Russia's somewhat questionable law and tieing it to upcoming Olympic games in Russia was quite easy comeback in this political "civil rights" game between Russia and USA.

[Fighter]

If the west wanted to go berserk over Russian human rights violations they needed to do it early over other things which affect more people and are more brutal than anything homosexuals are likely to face.

 

Because I can tell you now these priorities that would seem to put the vocal part of the already tiny homosexual minority above all else is not something the average Russian will understand.