Russia passes more homophobia laws

[Amentep]

 

I agree with Agiel on this; the Olympics are about forgetting why we hate each other, why we hate our differences.  Boycotting or moving the Winter Olympics (moving would be impossible at this date anyhow) is pretty much ensuring that the kind of connections the Olympics foster, the sharing of unequal beliefs in a framework of acceptance and sports competition wouldn't happen.

 

Fighting ignorance about minority groups has to include the ability for people to meet and see whatever group has been defined as "other" so that those who fear that "other" can see they aren't so different after all.

I thought it was about making money

 

 

Well there's always the "why you say you do it" vs "what you get out of it".

[Walsingham]

OK, maybe the olympics is supposed to be about joining together. But it could be very powerful.

 

Sport hits ordinary people right in the conscience. Bruce and I can remember that more than anything else it was rejection from sports which made white South Africa have to think about apartheid. Because excellence in sport was a fundamental part of life in school and so on. Being internationally rejected was a constant reminder.

 

I take exception to exodiark's point about feeling entitled. as a matter of fact, you look round the world and womens' rights and homosexual rights give a pretty good ****ing yardstick for civil liberty and respect of individuality. And speaking personally, if I was potentially due to get locked up or even executed for something I had no goddamn control over I'd be pretty pissed off. It's exactly as ludicrous as criminalising skin colour or being poor.

[Malcador]

Well, is just gay propaganda not the mere fact of being one that the law is aimed against. But I suppose the application will be different. Putin should have put the law in earlier, people would forget by the time the games draw near.

[mkreku]

I used to like Putin.. he hunted bears bare chested and flew with migrating birds!!

 

Now he's just an idiot.

[Gorgon]

The Olympics can only rejcet countries based on current practices during the selection phase. If they reject countries after they have already been chosen to host an event it looks like they are chosing sides politically, which they can't do given that they have to build bridges between different government types and peoples. 

[Amentep]

OK, maybe the olympics is supposed to be about joining together. But it could be very powerful.

 

Sport hits ordinary people right in the conscience. Bruce and I can remember that more than anything else it was rejection from sports which made white South Africa have to think about apartheid. Because excellence in sport was a fundamental part of life in school and so on. Being internationally rejected was a constant reminder.

 

I take exception to exodiark's point about feeling entitled. as a matter of fact, you look round the world and womens' rights and homosexual rights give a pretty good ****ing yardstick for civil liberty and respect of individuality. And speaking personally, if I was potentially due to get locked up or even executed for something I had no goddamn control over I'd be pretty pissed off. It's exactly as ludicrous as criminalising skin colour or being poor.

 

I don't disagree.  But as Gorgon says, if they want to bump Russia out for this, they really don't have a lot of room to maneuver until next go around.  Then if they want to ban Russia like they did SA they can (but I seriously doubt they will, to be honest).

[Walsingham]

'Point.

 

Apologies for not understanding Gorgon properly in the first place.

[Hurlshort]

I say it is more important to use this time to raise awareness of the terrible discriminatory policies than to try and cancel or move the Olympics.  

 

Also, what Wals said.  Being gay is not a choice and it isn't about being entitled.  If my child was gay I would want them to have the same rights as everyone else in this world, and that is simply not true in many places.

[Volourn]

This is Putin being putin. That guy is evil to the core. He doesn't care about anyone including his own country. It's all about Putin.

 

As for canceling the Russian Olympics, the IOC doesn't care about morality. It's all about money to them. They completely miss the point of the World Olympics. Countries like Russia (and Nazi Germany) shouldn't be 'honoured' an event that is supposedly dedicated to bringing people of different ilks together. But, again, the IOC is about greed. Period.

[Walsingham]

Did anyone else just suddenly decide it's all about Volourn?

Edited August 9, 2013 by Walsingham

[exodiark]

OK, maybe the olympics is supposed to be about joining together. But it could be very powerful.

 

Sport hits ordinary people right in the conscience. Bruce and I can remember that more than anything else it was rejection from sports which made white South Africa have to think about apartheid. Because excellence in sport was a fundamental part of life in school and so on. Being internationally rejected was a constant reminder.

 

I take exception to exodiark's point about feeling entitled. as a matter of fact, you look round the world and womens' rights and homosexual rights give a pretty good ****ing yardstick for civil liberty and respect of individuality. And speaking personally, if I was potentially due to get locked up or even executed for something I had no goddamn control over I'd be pretty pissed off. It's exactly as ludicrous as criminalising skin colour or being poor.

Hmmm, to prevent further misunderstandings, the "entitled" thing I said is for some activists who put gay rights over anything, like say woman objectification, buying from Foxconn sweatshops, fake WMDs, blood diamonds, etc.

 

Gay rights is no more important than those issues, and I find it funny that Stephen Fry want Russia out of Olympics just because they don't like gays, while his country did things as ethically questionable as not liking gays and made it to the Olympics. Talk about over-entitlement.

 

No, being gay or gay activists doesn't automatically make you entitled. I simply addressed a vocal minority in gay communities.

Edited August 9, 2013 by exodiark

[Malcador]

I say it is more important to use this time to raise awareness of the terrible discriminatory policies than to try and cancel or move the Olympics.

Hm, I'd hope Russians are already aware of it by now.

[Walsingham]

@Exodiark. Being from the same country as Steven Fry I think you need to have a good hard think about your argument.

 

Mentioning a handful of other 'ethical' issues doesn't make your case very clearly.

 

On what basis does Foxconn components equate to making capital punishment for being gay? Or being raped for being a low caste woman? On what basis does British colonial history make modern Britain complicit?

 

Both stephen Fry and I are modern Britain. I'd appreciate you being a bit more ****ing specific if you're accusing me of something.

[exodiark]

@Exodiark. Being from the same country as Steven Fry I think you need to have a good hard think about your argument.

 

Mentioning a handful of other 'ethical' issues doesn't make your case very clearly.

 

On what basis does Foxconn components equate to making capital punishment for being gay? Or being raped for being a low caste woman? On what basis does British colonial history make modern Britain complicit?

 

Both stephen Fry and I are modern Britain. I'd appreciate you being a bit more ****ing specific if you're accusing me of something.

*sigh* I said it already, like invading Iraq? and found out later that they don't have WMDs?

A war which destabilizes the entire Middle East region, and brought sufferings through war and revolutions? Could you imagine living in a city (Baghdad) where you could suddenly die just because you went shopping? Yes, that kind of destabilizations, car bombings, whatever.

 

I find it no worse or no better than not liking gays, and therefore I don't like Mr. Fry's assessments.

Edited August 9, 2013 by exodiark

[Hurlshort]

I don't necessarily agree with the war in Iraq, but let's put a little of the blame on Saddam Hussein as well.  It's really not related to this discussion though.

 

It's not a competition over who has the more righteous cause.  You are basically dismissing vocal gay rights activists because they are too vocal?  That's kind of the point of activism.

[exodiark]

I don't necessarily agree with the war in Iraq, but let's put a little of the blame on Saddam Hussein as well.  It's really not related to this discussion though.

 

It's not a competition over who has the more righteous cause.  You are basically dismissing vocal gay rights activists because they are too vocal?  That's kind of the point of activism.

Regardless, whoever participated in the war must take responsibility for it, including Saddam, US, Poland, UK, Australia, etc.

 

Also, maybe... it's because... I don't like vocal activists! Shocking, right?

Maybe it's better on my ears if Mr. Fry simply condemned Russia for not liking gays, but he overreacted by attempting to strip Russia from Olympics, just because they don't like gays. I dunno about you, but that's too extreme for me.

 

And you're right, It's not a competition when they are all the same to me, that's why I personally don't like Mr. Fry's assessments on why Russia must be stripped out from Olympics.

Edited August 9, 2013 by exodiark

[licketysplit]

First P*ssy Riot, then this. I am disappoint, Mother Russia..

Edited August 9, 2013 by licketysplit

[HoonDing]

This is Putin being putin. That guy is evil to the core. He doesn't care about anyone including his own country. It's all about Putin.

[Hurlshort]

double post

Edited August 9, 2013 by Hurlshot

[Hurlshort]

Regardless, whoever participated in the war must take responsibility for it, including Saddam, US, Poland, UK, Australia, etc.

Also, maybe... it's because... I don't like vocal activists! Shocking, right?

Maybe it's better on my ears if Mr. Fry simply condemned Russia for not liking gays, but he overreacted by attempting to strip Russia from Olympics, just because they don't like gays. I dunno about you, but that's too extreme for me.

 

And you're right, It's not a competition when they are all the same to me, that's why I personally don't like Mr. Fry's assessments on why Russia must be stripped out from Olympics.

 

 

 

You probably would have been better off just targeting Stephen Fry than using words like entitlement and the gay agenda.

[exodiark]

Thing is, I find many gay activists behave like Mr. Fry, so might as well
or maybe I was just bored and trolled, subtrolling Obsidian forums generates relatively well-mannered responses.

Edited August 9, 2013 by exodiark

[Volourn]

"and found out later that they don't have WMDs?"
 

yes, they did. This lie keeps being spouted. Iraq admitted they had WMD. They even admitted to what they had. Yet, they couldn't show where said WMD was. This baloney that Iraq had no WMD is laughable.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

it's all about Volourn?

For some reason, I could see this as a sitcom.

[Zoraptor]

It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what.

 

Yes, Stephen. But I think you meant:

 

It's now very common to hear people say 'I'm rather offended by that' and it's only significant if it's me being offended rather than someone else, for something I consider to be trivial.

 

(Still, not as bad as Candidate Obama vs shambling soulless shell Pod Person President Obama who can't even shoot free throws any more)

 

He really hasn't left himself much room for the outraeg!!! in 2020 at Qatar's laws on homosexuality if he's already playing the Nazi/ Hitler card for somewhere where they won't actually kill you for being gay.

[Agiel]

 

It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what.

 

Yes, Stephen. But I think you meant:

 

It's now very common to hear people say 'I'm rather offended by that' and it's only significant if it's me being offended rather than someone else, for something I consider to be trivial.

 

(Still, not as bad as Candidate Obama vs shambling soulless shell Pod Person President Obama who can't even shoot free throws any more)

 

He really hasn't left himself much room for the outraeg!!! in 2020 at Qatar's laws on homosexuality if he's already playing the Nazi/ Hitler card for somewhere where they won't actually kill you for being gay.

 

 

Nobody ever said countries like Uganda (see the Christmas law of 2012 and the truly bizarre Youtube "justification" for it) ever get a pass for draconian laws like that. As a fellow industrialised nation with a comparable literacy rate, a growing college-educated and young professional populace, and for the most part good women's suffrage record (unlike most Gulf States) many of us do hold Russia to the west's standards of human rights.