Update #61: In-game Art

[Sarex]

Season 3 prize pool is 8 million, the winner or worlds gets 1 million. So it's not even in the same ball park.

 

As for the champions you forgot to mention that every week there are free to play champions. Yeah RP(riot points) is a way to make money, so what? It doesn't make it pay-to-win.

 

As for Dota being more complex, that can also be a bad thing. Bottom line is, in a team fight both games require the same skill set (amount of skill), it's only in the paths leading to the team fights where the games differ.

 

You are being a fan boy, your game is not the best (neither is lol), it's just different. As for that "complex mechanic" called denial, yeah it's logical to kill your allies, and last hitting your own creep is complex.

 

This is all I have to say on this matter, you won't get any more replies from me on this, as we are far off topic. Sorry to the mods, fell free to delete this discussion.

[Sensuki]

You seem mad? Yet you were the one calling me out in the first place. How does that work?

 

The reason the total prize pool for LoL is higher is because Riot Games is raking in the ca$$$$$h from their pay to progress antics haha. It is the Zynga model, go google it. The winner of TI3 gets more than $1M.

 

Yeah I'll bet all the popamole devs say exactly the same thing about complexity being bad. That's why we get watered down garbage as games today.

 

You can only deny yourself or your teammates under certain situations and doing so denies the enemy team gold and experience. Same with the denial of creeps. Very important to gaining an edge in the lane. DotA is and always will be the best moba because the game was made as a mod without any intentions other than being an awesome game.

 

It's also why one of the reasons why any of Valve's attempts at a new counter-strike that competes with the original Half-Life mod fails because they have to compromise the vision of pure competitiveness to be able to sell copies of the game. DotA 2 doesn't really have to do too much to get 'new fans' to the game because the amount of DotA 1 players is so huge already. Their balance changes and mechanics changes (besides what's different in the engine) are all done in the original WC3 DotA first, before being ported to DotA 2.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Sensuki

[Solviulnir the Soulbinder]

So, just to clarify - why wouldn't Bossidian go oldschool with the P:E UI and just make it like it was in BG/IWD? 

I for one wouldn't mind having an option to switch between a classic Balduresque UI and that (ugly) modern floating stuff a'la NVN... If an option is not an option i'd just love to have an oldschool hybrid horizontal/vertical bars. With big-ass vertically arranged portraits. But then again, who cares what i'd want.

[Chrononaut]

So, just to clarify - why wouldn't Bossidian go oldschool with the P:E UI and just make it like it was in BG/IWD? 

 

I for one wouldn't mind having an option to switch between a classic Balduresque UI and that (ugly) modern floating stuff a'la NVN... If an option is not an option i'd just love to have an oldschool hybrid horizontal/vertical bars. With big-ass vertically arranged portraits. But then again, who cares what i'd want.

Probably because when Obsidian did reveal a mock-up of a UI against the waterfall environment, all the decliners came out of the woodwork saying it's "too big" and "clunky" and that they wanted a "modern", "streamlined" RPG UI. It's impossible to be nostalgic for BG/IWD when you've never played them and your only frame of reference for RPG's is Dragon Age or Mass Effect.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Chrononaut

[Malekith]

So, just to clarify - why wouldn't Bossidian go oldschool with the P:E UI and just make it like it was in BG/IWD? 

 

I for one wouldn't mind having an option to switch between a classic Balduresque UI and that (ugly) modern floating stuff a'la NVN... If an option is not an option i'd just love to have an oldschool hybrid horizontal/vertical bars. With big-ass vertically arranged portraits. But then again, who cares what i'd want.

Because Sawyer likes the IWD2 UI more and he uses it as a model for PE. Floating NWN2-DA:O UI was never in the cards.

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

Probably because when Obsidian did reveal a mock-up of a UI against the waterfall environment, all the decliners came out of the woodwork saying it's "too big" and "clunky" and that they wanted a "modern", "streamlined" RPG UI. It's impossible to be nostalgic for BG/IWD when you've never played them and your only frame of reference for RPG's is Dragon Age or Mass Effect.

 

 

Ahem, many of us proponents for a sleek and functionalist UI-design have been around for a long time. I've played computer RPGs since they started in the early 80s, and I played PnP in the 70s, for instance. We want that kind of UI for the reasons we have described (read them before making false assumptions). Perhaps - just a possibility - we are of this opinion because we "oldies" can compare different RPG UIs over time and then form ourselves well founded opinions on what works or not. 

[Sarex]

Because Sawyer likes the IWD2 UI more and he uses it as a model for PE. Floating NWN2-DA:O UI was never in the cards.

 

Tbh, I'm thankful for that.

[bonarbill]

I rather just have a choice for the UI:  Oldschool (BG), IWD2 style, and New School (minimal).  As a programmer, I know how time consuming UI are, but I certainly don't think there is a downside for letting us choose.

 

While I did hated the UI from BG1 & BG2, I REALLY loved the IWD1 UI because it looked pretty.  Heck, I'll mod it in the game myself if I have to.

Edited August 12, 2013 by bonarbill

[Malekith]

I rather just have a choice for the UI:  Oldschool (BG), IWD2 style, and New School (minimal).  As a programmer, I know how time consuming UI are, but I certainly don't think there is a downside for letting us choose.

 

While I did hated the UI from BG1 & BG2, I REALLY loved the IWD1 UI because it looked pretty.  Heck, I'll mod it in the game myself if I have to.

Eeh, IWD 1 had exactly the same UI as BGs. Did you meant IWD 2?

[Sensuki]

I certainly don't think there is a downside for letting us choose.

Time/Cost.

 

UI will be collapsible apparently.

[Malekith]

 

I certainly don't think there is a downside for letting us choose.

Time/Cost.

 

UI will be collapsible apparently.

 

Well, it was collapsible in BG2 as well. Didn't bother anyone. As long as i get a solid, big UI in the vein of old IE, i don't care about how other people play the game

[Hassat Hunter]

I've discussed UI in another topic to detail, so I let it pass here. Check there if you want my opinions

 

As for the screenshot... it looks awesome. Yes, I am aware it's a work-in-progress, so don't mind the shadows and some of the characters being a bit cooky cutter.

I absolutely love the art and the character armor/weapon look. Back to the old days of IE. Back when areas where pretty and not just the same dungeon redone 5-times due to 3D asset issues. To beatiful art rather than the 'pretty but absolutely plain' Withcer II/Oblivion. Hopefully you guys can keep up making dungeons and outdoor areas look magnificant like here and the waterfall.

And yay for realistic clothing rahter than oversized weapons, massive armshoulders and all that silly crap that's apparently our current 'epic' gear.

 

IWD's and PS:T had some amazing sights, so I am not too concerned here, looking forward what the artists present us with. And please give each "Mega Dungeon" level an unique look...

Also, can we have an option of hiding equiped items like the helm?

I can see this being good in Mass Effect (closeups on you a lot of times in a lot of conversations) or The Old Republic (since those art developers turn out the ****tiests of helemets, I'm not sure there's a good one besides Revan/Nihilus, which aren't even theirs) I don't really see any added value for a IE-type game. I never played the BGs and ever thought 'I wish I could remove the helmet from my character', and I doubt I will for PE if they provide some nice looking headgear. 

I loved comical moments in BG2 when I'd open a door, see hords of monsters running at me, then close it again.

I would love it if you tried that in PE the monsters would simply break the door down and enter your room. Doors shouldn't be impenetrable obstacles to the UI. Unless of course the door is smaller than the opponent.

Also, in full honesty, I think I'd love a career in game QA, but I sadly lack both the proximity AND the credentials to be an Obsidian QA lead. *le sigh*

I feel your pain. Not sure if it fits me, but 40 runs of Nihilus battle to test and update stuff made me get a bit of the vibe XD

[WorstUsernameEver]

It really strikes me as weird that you put The Witcher 2 in the same category as Oblivion. The differences in terms of art, both in terms of direction and quality*, are pretty obvious to me.

 

* I'm not just talking about the quality of the assets, but also of the designs. There's a lot of painstakingly researched stuff in there, check the art book!

[Falkon Swiftblade]

 

Also, can we have an option of hiding equiped items like the helm?

I can see this being good in Mass Effect (closeups on you a lot of times in a lot of conversations) or The Old Republic (since those art developers turn out the ****tiests of helemets, I'm not sure there's a good one besides Revan/Nihilus, which aren't even theirs) I don't really see any added value for a IE-type game. I never played the BGs and ever thought 'I wish I could remove the helmet from my character', and I doubt I will for PE if they provide some nice looking headgear. 

 

 

 

 

The reason I was asking was because I would like to adventure in not so bulky armor, and if we had the option I would like to see the clothes more than the same armor type on 3-4 hero's. My worry is all my characters being forced to wear the same gear and look the same which is not fun. 

[Lephys]

 

Also, can we have an option of hiding equiped items like the helm?

I can see this being good in Mass Effect (closeups on you a lot of times in a lot of conversations) or The Old Republic (since those art developers turn out the ****tiests of helemets, I'm not sure there's a good one besides Revan/Nihilus, which aren't even theirs) I don't really see any added value for a IE-type game. I never played the BGs and ever thought 'I wish I could remove the helmet from my character', and I doubt I will for PE if they provide some nice looking headgear.

 

This is pretty minor, but it would be quite lovely if they could do it: helmets with visors (not all of them would forcibly just have visors, of course). When you're in town, if you don't remove your helmet and stow it on your pack or something (etc.), or enter non-hostile conversation, your character could actually raise their visor, or Rogue-types could remove masks, etc.

 

Pretty much any piece of face-covering equipment that people would have actually needed to remove to speak to each other via the sounds of surrounding battle and such, then put back on. I think a lot of those type of things had methods of easy removal (in the case of visors, they typically just swung up, MAYBE locked in place, in both the upward and downward positions). Anywho, I'm not trying to get too detailed and technical with this. I just tend to ramble. But, that would functionally solve the "My guy's talking through a friggin' helmet all the time!" problem, without having to magically allow you to wear an invisible helmet. AND it would be pretty cool, from just a really-nice-animations/detail perspective.

 

 

It really strikes me as weird that you put The Witcher 2 in the same category as Oblivion. The differences in terms of art, both in terms of direction and quality*, are pretty obvious to me.

It strikes me as a bit weird that it strikes you so, heh. I realize there are significant differences between the two, but that doesn't change the fact that their overall visual style is very similar. A lot of their art detail tends to lose effect, due to the sheer quantity of realistically-hued fine details all over the screen. It's a bit like painstakingly painting all the individual stripes onto a bunch of zebras, in a game full of zebras. The details sort of become their own camouflage.

 

I tend to suffer more eyestrain when playing games with art like that in half an hour than I do playing other games for 3 times as long. I know graphics have come a long way, but, when you throw lighting, distance, and perspective into the mix, video game tiny details still have nothing on reality tiny details. It's not QUITE as bad from a first-person view as it is from third, but... still.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Lephys

[WorstUsernameEver]

It strikes me as a bit weird that it strikes you so, heh. I realize there are significant differences between the two, but that doesn't change the fact that their overall visual style is very similar. A lot of their art detail tends to lose effect, due to the sheer quantity of realistically-hued fine details all over the screen. It's a bit like painstakingly painting all the individual stripes onto a bunch of zebras, in a game full of zebras. The details sort of become their own camouflage.

 

I tend to suffer more eyestrain when playing games with art like that in half an hour than I do playing other games for 3 times as long. I know graphics have come a long way, but, when you throw lighting, distance, and perspective into the mix, video game tiny details still have nothing on reality tiny details. It's not QUITE as bad from a first-person view as it is from third, but... still.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "details" (are we talking about armors or environments? are we talking about how realistically the materials are rendered? how elaborate the textures are? how elaborate and cluttered the environments you navigate in are? there are significant differences between the two titles in ALL of these categories) but honestly, that looks more like you having image quality and eyesight problems than an actual con of the aforementioned titles' visual direction.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Lephys: I'd love to see an option to hisde hhelmets or even make them get opened up or removed. The same goes for masks and other conversation-disturbing headgear. In Skyrim, I very soon got used to a mod that opens up all helmets so that you see the wearers' faces more. Finally, they can breathe.

[Barzarel]

Looks all over nice I think, there something a bit weird about the shadows however.

 

1st picture the shadows of one the cultist is cast backwards(up) while the objects around cast shadows downwards in a diagonal.

 

2nd thing there only one shadow cast on some them while there more than one light source around, usually light with give a strong clear shadow from the strongest light source and a slightly more dim from the second. But assume some of this has to do with it being a 2D most some of it, but don't know if your doing it or even if its possible but say for instance the avatar are 3D on a 2D background to have light source pointers which an avatar sensor object picks up and projects shadow accordingly. But don't know anything about programming, but the shadows did not look completely on the spot for me.

 

[Lephys]

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "details" (are we talking about armors or environments? are we talking about how realistically the materials are rendered? how elaborate the textures are? how elaborate and cluttered the environments you navigate in are? there are significant differences between the two titles in ALL of these categories) but honestly, that looks more like you having image quality and eyesight problems than an actual con of the aforementioned titles' visual direction.

I'm not really sure how else to emphasize the fact that both games share a lot of differences as well as similarities, without simply repeating myself. If you compare Oblivion's/Skyrim's and the Witcher 2's general graphically-rendered style to other games of the genre, you see a much higher attention to detail/realistic proportion. On environments, character models, items, props, etc.

 

Also, I possess 20/15 vision, for whatever that's worth to you. I'll let you decide whether or not I have eye problems. Also for what it's worth, the human eye gets naturally strained from looking at a 2D screen and constantly adjusting focus for completely artificial perspective depth, lighting, and details. Not to mention we involuntarily blink less often when engrossed in a game/show/film, etc. (pretty much anything we engage ourselves in via a video screen).

 

I really don't see any value in an argument about this, as it's just an aside to the discussion at hand. You may obviously believe what you will, and decide what you will. It's by no means my job to alter your decision-making process.

[vonbleak]

I would love to and can seriously make nice music for free if you want....

[Jarmo]

I would love to and can seriously make nice music for free if you want....

 

Samples?

 

And what style? A bit of electropop tossed in might clash with the atmosphere they're going for...

But if it's nice and free for real, I'm sure they could use some stuff.

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

A bit of electropop tossed in might clash with the atmosphere they're going for...

 

 

Imagine Popcorn going off just as you start swinging maces at a horde of skellies!    

[Archmage Silver]

Project Eternity: The Official Trailer feat. Marilyn Manson... oh, wait, it was that other game.

[Archmage Silver]

Or just hire Gavin Dunne aka Miracle of Sound:

 

Edited August 16, 2013 by Archmage Silver

[centurionofprix]

Just don't let him write the lyrics in any decipherable language.