About hate-mail and other online abuse.

[alanschu]

Just to add, there could very well be mitigating circumstances for the lack of dev contribution.

 

 

I remember some people wondering if I had been let go after an extended break from the BSN, but it just turns out I was stupendously busy.

[Lephys]

^ True that. The way I see it, every dev post that goes unmade on these forums is time spent ferociously toiling over something directly related to the game. 8P

 

It's not exactly a negative that they've been a little radio silent lately, as it most likely represents an increase in their activity. Just not their forum activity.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Someone on Twitter told Jonathan Blow that you can just ignore these messages.

“This is false,” he replied. “We can't choose to ignore it. As soon as the words are read, they have already hit emotionally.”

You simply can't not take it to heart. 

 

 

After dozens or hundreds of instances, it honestly doesn't have any effect.

[AwesomeOcelot]

 

 

Someone on Twitter told Jonathan Blow that you can just ignore these messages.

“This is false,” he replied. “We can't choose to ignore it. As soon as the words are read, they have already hit emotionally.”

You simply can't not take it to heart.

 

 

After dozens or hundreds of instances, it honestly doesn't have any effect.

 

You're nobody until somebody hates you, and I'd like all the right people to hate me. It's probably a sign you were doing something right.

[alanschu]

 

 

After dozens or hundreds of instances, it honestly doesn't have any effect.

 

I agree it has a desensitizing effect.

 

Originally I took things a lot more personally, and I still have my triggers that make me move into immediate "dismissive" state towards a particular poster.

 

Could just be you're a better person than I am (and a lot more seasoned on the whole process).

[tajerio]

It's encouraging to see that the man whose work is the target for the majority of the complaints from the P:E prospective fanbase has it roll off his back like a duck, to quote Sam Goldwyn's malapropism.

[Lephys]

After dozens or hundreds of instances, it honestly doesn't have any effect.

So, the poison was in both glasses? You've just built up an immunity to it by taking trace amounts since you were a child (developer)?

[Ignatius]

 

Someone on Twitter told Jonathan Blow that you can just ignore these messages.

“This is false,” he replied. “We can't choose to ignore it. As soon as the words are read, they have already hit emotionally.”

You simply can't not take it to heart. 

 

 

After dozens or hundreds of instances, it honestly doesn't have any effect.

 

 

Haha. Challenge accepted!

 

(The many instances he's probably referring to likely involve the RPG Codex. lol)

 

Also thought of this blog from Josh when I read this thread: http://twofoldsilence.diogenes-lamp.info/2012/07/art-and-appreciation_19.html

Edited July 31, 2013 by Ignatius

[Monte Carlo]

I've seen some egregious stupidity on these forums but nothing really really legally actionably bad.

 

And I'm a proud pre-2004 BIS member (i.e. 1999 or thereabouts).

[Hormalakh]

 

The case of Phil Fish reflected in the article, though.... is a special one.

 

Because he invented it 100% for himself. He constantly acts arrogant, insults people (openly at a indie panel he (and others) went down on another dev) and acts all scared when someone actually goes after him. He can dish it out, but can't take it.

 

As such I don't actually have much sympathy with the guy. Grow up.

That is victim blaming. Phil Fish acting outside of social mores doesn't give people the right to send abuse his way. Nor do we know if it's cause or consequence. I've seen it happen before recently that someone blew up after suffering abuse for hours on end, and then got seen as the ****. It's important to know the context.

 

they aren't on the forums as much because they're working on the vertical slice. it's ok to be critical of their decisions because that is what they wanted. some people are obnoxious but there are still enough good people out there that realize that obsidian is awesome at what they do for people like Sawyer and co to realize we appreciate their efforts.

 

these guys are professionals. the amount of bile they have to deal with when dealing with scum that are publishers is NOTHING compared to a few dummy comments from puerile children about a specific game mechanic. someone saying "wahh I hate crafting skill" isn't going to take food away from the mouths of the dev's family; bonuses based on obnoxious metacritic scores does.

You don't get to see all the feedback, so it's not possible to get an accurate image for us, but I hope you're right.

And yes, of course we should be able to field criticism.

 

I suspected as much. it's a rare case for a person to have enough hate against him from a group and for him to have done no wrong.

I'm reminded of a quote by Patrick Stewart, fairly recently, about victim blaming:

"As a child, I heard in my home doctors and ambulance men say, 'Mrs Stewart, you must have done something to provoke him', 'Mrs Stewart, it takes two to make an argument'," he said.

 

"Wrong, wrong.

 

"My mother did nothing to provoke that and even if she had, violence is never, ever a choice that a man should make."

I think it can be applied broader. Just because Phil Fish isn't very good at dealing with the pressure, doesn't give people the right to send hate filled messages his way under the pretence of "he had it coming"

 

it's strinkingly odd to me that in our contemporary society, even the perpetrator can be considered a victim. is there no room for criticism left anymore?

 

"Blaming the victim", a concept so deeply ingrained in rape victim advocacy, is absolutely nothing like what Phil Fish is goign through. Please do not devalue such a concept by equating Phil Fish's "dilemma" with it.

 

Kthx bye. 

Edited July 31, 2013 by Hormalakh

[BruceVC]

I've seen some egregious stupidity on these forums but nothing really really legally actionably bad.

 

And I'm a proud pre-2004 BIS member (i.e. 1999 or thereabouts).

 

I've seen some egregious stupidity on these forums but nothing really really legally actionably bad.

 

And I'm a proud pre-2004 BIS member (i.e. 1999 or thereabouts).

 

Well its good to you see acknowledging your stupidity, the first step to dealing with any problem is accepting it

[Sensuki]

I am definitely an annoying SOB when I disagree with a design decision or a mechanic because I am really invested in this game. I do not think I come off as malicious though.

[BruceVC]

I am definitely an annoying SOB when I disagree with a design decision or a mechanic because I am really invested in this game. I do not think I come off as malicious though.

 

Yes you are very pleasant and reasonable, you are only malicious and vituperative if you don't support me in the implementation of Romance in PE

[Sensuki]

Burn at the stake you promancer!

[Malcador]

Just to add, there could very well be mitigating circumstances for the lack of dev contribution.

 

 

I remember some people wondering if I had been let go after an extended break from the BSN, but it just turns out I was stupendously busy.

So you mean they might actually be working rather than posting ?

[alanschu]

That does happen from time to time.

 

Present company excluded, of course.

[JFSOCC]

it's strinkingly odd to me that in our contemporary society, even the victim can be considered a perpetrator.

ftfy

[Malcador]

I'm not really seeing how a "Live by the sword, die by the sword" point is really victim blaming.

[Dream]

Fish completely brought this upon himself because no one knew about him (and thus no one cared to antagonize him) before he started acting like a giant douche in the movie, at cons, on twitter, etc. He did it to get publicity to generate hype for his game and it worked, but when it came time to reap what he'd sown he started to cry about being a victim and how everyone was mean to him.

 

The way I see it if he wants to sling **** for publicity then whatever, but if he's going to go down that road then he needs to not be such a little bitch when people sling it back at him.

[alanschu]

Who made the movie?

 

 

Also, was it done specifically to generate hype, or is that just the type of person he is?

Edited July 31, 2013 by alanschu

[JFSOCC]

Fish completely brought this upon himself because no one knew about him (and thus no one cared to antagonize him) before he started acting like a giant douche in the movie, at cons, on twitter, etc. He did it to get publicity to generate hype for his game and it worked, but when it came time to reap what he'd sown he started to cry about being a victim and how everyone was mean to him.

 

The way I see it if he wants to sling **** for publicity then whatever, but if he's going to go down that road then he needs to not be such a little bitch when people sling it back at him.

I think it's something different, I think this is a person who is used to speak his mind, someone who has trouble not too. I don;t think he's media trained, and has trouble communicating effectively. I think the outburst is telling and symptomatic. I know because I used to respond very similarly under pressure. And in my case it wasn't ill will, but a lack of inhibitions. I couldn't not say my mind, and not everyone took that with grace.

 

You see rudeness, I see honesty. Tactless, maybe, but not malicious.

[Dream]

 

Fish completely brought this upon himself because no one knew about him (and thus no one cared to antagonize him) before he started acting like a giant douche in the movie, at cons, on twitter, etc. He did it to get publicity to generate hype for his game and it worked, but when it came time to reap what he'd sown he started to cry about being a victim and how everyone was mean to him.

 

The way I see it if he wants to sling **** for publicity then whatever, but if he's going to go down that road then he needs to not be such a little bitch when people sling it back at him.

I think it's something different, I think this is a person who is used to speak his mind, someone who has trouble not too. I don;t think he's media trained, and has trouble communicating effectively. I think the outburst is telling and symptomatic. I know because I used to respond very similarly under pressure. And in my case it wasn't ill will, but a lack of inhibitions. I couldn't not say my mind, and not everyone took that with grace.

 

You see rudeness, I see honesty. Tactless, maybe, but not malicious.

 

"Suck my ****. Choke on it."

 

That's some real honesty.

[Orogun01]

Context may be relevant here.

[alanschu]

I believe it was a retort to some people that were getting on his case on Twitter or something.

 

Fish was definitely a belligerent individual that responded out aggressively to perceived sleights.

[C2B]

Context may be relevant here.

Winning an award.