As more is learned..

[Ignatius]

I was expecting a new cRPG designed by Tim Cain and Josh Sawyer, so far so good.

 

/fanboy

 

And I agree that there's nothing wrong with adjusting the rule set for a game setting. As fun as the DnD rules in BG2 could be, at times it got to be pretty irritating, namely the hard counter wizard battles, spell mechanics that required constant resting which made it all feel a bit cheesy or made you not want to cast spells most of the time, insta-kill spells that wore out your reload key, very little in the way of tactical positioning (because enemies just went where ever they wanted to). When I think back to my best times with BG2/IWD, these are not the things I think about.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Ignatius

[Lephys]

Tbh, that is my greatest fear.

Really? Mine is thousands of spiders burrowing out of my skin, then growing to giant size.

 

In all seriousness, I dare say that it's one thing to, for example, hope the Obsidian team doesn't suffer any unfortunate accidents or anything, but another thing entirely to say "I'm really afraid they're all going to go outside and play in traffic on their lunch break."

 

I don't really see anything they're doing that bolsters any kind of crazy risk of this game failing miserably. So, to go back to the traffic-danger analogy, I don't sit around fearing that a herd of cars is going to Dukes of Hazzard its way through the side of the 4th floor (or whatever floor they're on) of their offices and smash them all to bits. I know they're careful people who don't play in traffic, and they don't work in some place with heightened risk of cars inadvertently ramming into their offices. So, it's just not a major concern. It has no reason to be.

[okkoko]

• • there will be also dungeon crawling

holar hole yes there be dungeon crawling thy made a super dungeon like 15 levels i do not know how big each levels are but hohomuhubhawbhaw :D

[Longknife]

I pledged money because Avellone promised me he'd sing Don't Stop Believin' if I did. And he did.

 

No complaints here.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Longknife

[Walsingham]

The system affects gameplay. Gameplay affects the total experience.

 

I would suggest that building their own system was a concomitant of producing a wholly superior gaming experience.

 

Note also that a good system means they can publish 10-15 follow up games without worrying about licensing.

[Amentep]

 

 

 

I understand their desire to form their own intellectual property, but I am somewhat surprised at their choice to conjure up a brand new system. I was hoping that they would use the Pathfinder system for this first iteration. In that way, they could use a proven system which their target audience will appreciate and concentrate on constructing their own world, narrative, etc.

 

To me it would have been more realistic to attempt creating a whole new gameplay system *after* creating a successful CRPG with a mechanic system that not merely appeals to their niche, but to a very broad audience.

 

I love the Pathfinder system but honestly. it's just not a good system for a computer game. If PE were turn-based, sure, that's a whole other thing. But seeing as it is, I'd say building their own system is a good idea, albeit difficult to achieve.

 

 

Wouldn't they have had to license Pathfinder anyway (deducting money from the project)?

 

 

Of course. But I don't think that's really the point because designing your own system also costs a lot of money.

Still, there is a game that uses the Pathfinder license. Head over to goblinworks.com for info about Pathfinder Online.

 

 

Right...but they'd have to spend money to adapt the PNP rules to video games.

 

So...money for ruleset + money to adapt rules or money to make your own rules...?

 

My guess is the first is slightly more money for slightly less time spent on the rules vs less money and more time.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

I understand their desire to form their own intellectual property, but I am somewhat surprised at their choice to conjure up a brand new system. I was hoping that they would use the Pathfinder system for this first iteration. In that way, they could use a proven system which their target audience will appreciate and concentrate on constructing their own world, narrative, etc.

 

To me it would have been more realistic to attempt creating a whole new gameplay system *after* creating a successful CRPG with a mechanic system that not merely appeals to their niche, but to a very broad audience.

 

 

I love the Pathfinder system but honestly. it's just not a good system for a computer game. If PE were turn-based, sure, that's a whole other thing. But seeing as it is, I'd say building their own system is a good idea, albeit difficult to achieve.

 

Wouldn't they have had to license Pathfinder anyway (deducting money from the project)?

 

Of course. But I don't think that's really the point because designing your own system also costs a lot of money.

Still, there is a game that uses the Pathfinder license. Head over to goblinworks.com for info about Pathfinder Online.

Actually, I don't think that is using the Pathfinder system, just the setting. Using the Pathfinder rulesets for a cRPG would likely be legal hell, seeing as you would have to deal with both Pazio and WotC.

[okkoko]

i

 

 

 

 

 

I understand their desire to form their own intellectual property, but I am somewhat surprised at their choice to conjure up a brand new system. I was hoping that they would use the Pathfinder system for this first iteration. In that way, they could use a proven system which their target audience will appreciate and concentrate on constructing their own world, narrative, etc.
 
To me it would have been more realistic to attempt creating a whole new gameplay system *after* creating a successful CRPG with a mechanic system that not merely appeals to their niche, but to a very broad audience.

 
I love the Pathfinder system but honestly. it's just not a good system for a computer game. If PE were turn-based, sure, that's a whole other thing. But seeing as it is, I'd say building their own system is a good idea, albeit difficult to achieve.

 
Wouldn't they have had to license Pathfinder anyway (deducting money from the project)?

 
Of course. But I don't think that's really the point because designing your own system also costs a lot of money.
Still, there is a game that uses the Pathfinder license. Head over to goblinworks.com for info about Pathfinder Online.

Actually, I don't think that is using the Pathfinder system, just the setting. Using the Pathfinder rulesets for a cRPG would likely be legal hell, seeing as you would have to deal with both Pazio and WotC.

 

they will use a system somewhat in a way like the game draksouls they show a picture of it in their newest vid

[decado]

starting from scratch is a no-brainer. why are we even talking about PNP systems?

 

Because people can't conceive of doing anything different.

 

I think the IE games -- specifically, BGII -- are the best CRPGs ever made.  And I like 2nd Edition AD&D, partly for nostalgia and partly for its complexity and charm.  But I can also recognize that the transition from PnP to computer must have been a tremendous headache, and was likely causing problems for developers all the way back to the SSI games.  2nd Edition was simply not designed to be played on a computer.  The fact that we got so many years out of it is a testament to the awesome work done by invested game developers (not to mention true fans!) over the years.

 

All that said, it is time to move on.

Edited July 26, 2013 by decado

[Sensuki]

I think it is a fair call to say "How will this be like the IE games" in regards to System design. Because Josh Sawyer has implemented a lot of new/altered systems (sometimes unnecessarily IMO) for trial.

[Tale]

Actually, I don't think that is using the Pathfinder system, just the setting. Using the Pathfinder rulesets for a cRPG would likely be legal hell, seeing as you would have to deal with both Pazio and WotC.

Aren't they open systems simply for that reason alone?

 

Also you can't copyright rules which means they're open because they kind of have to be. Though you can definitely copyright and trademark things such as spell names and monsters.

[Tale]

People have published D20 games and sold them. D20 is only a trademark, which means all you really have to do is not call it D20.

 

If you want an example, just look at the Book of Erotic Fantasy or Nuisances. Which were denied the trademark because of mature content, but still use the system.

 

Or you can just go for something like OGL or GSL, which allow you to use trademarks but are royalty free.

[Monte Carlo]

I am prepared to be corrected, but the D20 Open Gaming Licence (the foundations of which Pathfinder is built) specifically excludes electronic entertainment products.

[Tale]

I am prepared to be corrected, but the D20 Open Gaming Licence (the foundations of which Pathfinder is built) specifically excludes electronic entertainment products.

Did not know that.

 

But the more important point stands. You can't copyright rules. http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html

D20 OGL and the like are for Trademarks. So you can put "DnD compatible" on what you produce. That may be why the exclusion exists, because you can't really claim compatibility across media like that.

 

If someone would care to correct me, KOTOR didn't require any sort of licensing for its D20 use because it didn't brand itself as D20. Similar to the previous two I mentioned, though obviously for different reasons.

[Amentep]

But the more important point stands. You can't copyright rules. http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html

D20 OGL and the like are for Trademarks. So you can put "DnD compatible" on what you produce. That may be why the exclusion exists, because you can't really claim compatibility across media like that.

Your link says you can copyright your text though. And in fact the D20 stuff is listed as ©Wizards of the Coast.

 

How much that protects the D20 system from exploitation in a video game I dunno though.

 

 

If someone would care to correct me, KOTOR didn't require any sort of licensing for its D20 use because it didn't brand itself as D20. Similar to the previous two I mentioned, though obviously for different reasons.

I can't imagine LucasArts would have licensed Star Wars without a provision allowing them to use whatever was created for the game for their own purposes (put NPCs into comics, put the ruleset into video games, put settings into books).

[Tale]

Your link says you can copyright your text though. And in fact the D20 stuff is listed as ©Wizards of the Coast.

You can copyright the text, yes. You can copyright

"You have to roll the 20 sided dice to determine the attack."

 

This doesn't prevent someone from writing "Take the dice with 20 sides, use the resulting number, that's your attack value." Computer interpretations would be even further than that.

[Amentep]

 

Your link says you can copyright your text though. And in fact the D20 stuff is listed as ©Wizards of the Coast.

You can copyright the text, yes. You can copyright

"You have to roll the 20 sided dice to determine the attack."

 

This doesn't prevent someone from writing "Take the dice with 20 sides, use the resulting number, that's your attack value." Computer interpretations would be even further than that.

 

Right. But spells, for example (or at least their text and - if they had a unique enough name (think Tenser's Transformation instead of fireball), religions, possibly some of the racial details would all be potentially out.

[Tale]

 

 

Your link says you can copyright your text though. And in fact the D20 stuff is listed as ©Wizards of the Coast.

You can copyright the text, yes. You can copyright

"You have to roll the 20 sided dice to determine the attack."

 

This doesn't prevent someone from writing "Take the dice with 20 sides, use the resulting number, that's your attack value." Computer interpretations would be even further than that.

 

Right. But spells, for example (or at least their text and - if they had a unique enough name (think Tenser's Transformation instead of fireball), religions, possibly some of the racial details would all be potentially out.

 

Agreed. Copyright or trademark on those details, like with Ilithid.