Is project eternity the best managed kickstarter game?

[marelooke]

 

Given the company's history I'm quite confident in Larian's management of Divnity: Original Sin's budget, more so than pretty much any other KS out there.

 

Well, even though Divinity 2 was kind of flawed and broken until the recent (?) update.

 

 

I wasn't talking about their released games history, but more the financial troubles they've had at various stages. (eg. at one point Larian was basically bankrupt and Swen had to lay off all but 3 or so employees...stuff like that tends to teach one how to handle money more carefully I would imagine...)

 

He also talks about this and their tendency to feature creep (and knowing is half the battle )

Edited July 3, 2013 by marelooke

[Diagoras]

You can spin it any way you want, it still doesn't change the fact they don't  seem to understand a basic balance sheet? 

 

 

Have you been watching the documentaries?

[Jarmo]

PE seems to be hands down the best managed so far, as far as you can tell from updates and PR.

 

Having said that, with 4 times the minimum budget, I wouldn't be surprised or alarmed it the game arrives a year later than expected.

Actually I woud rather hope they do take their sweet time with it and not release the game before it's all polished up and ready to amaze.

[lolaldanee]

i'm too having the impression that PE is one of the better managed kickstarters out there, but what do we know of internal dealings at obsidian? right: nothing

on the other hand, if a well established company like obsidian, filled with veterans of the industry, can't stick to budget, who can?

so far, none of the more prominent kickstarters seems to **** up their project completely, a fact that's actually rather surprising

as for Double Fine: i'm confident they will deliver a game that despite all the trouble is bigger than the one they originally kickstarted for, and you have to consider that they have to pay the guys making the documentary too

still, they seem to be the ones most incapable to stay whithin budget

 

as far as updates and communication goes PE is by far the best one besides Brogen Age

the updates sometimes are lacking a bit in depth, but they are frequently, and Josh never shies away from discussion on the forum

to be honest i would have expected even more communication, but compared to many other kickstarters obsidian is doing a fantastic job in that regard

Edited July 4, 2013 by lolaldanee

[WotanAnubis]

Given the company's history I'm quite confident in Larian's management of Divnity: Original Sin's budget, more so than pretty much any other KS out there.

 

Well, the difference with Original Sin is that the Kickstarter wasn't for funding the actual game. They already had the funds for the game. The Kickstarter was for getting enough money to add more features and polish to a game that would be released anyway even if the Kickstarter had failed.

[FlintlockJazz]

Just my thoughts but I always thought Double Fine would have problems simply because they were the first: they were the ones who showed just how much money could be raised, before they did it no one expected such a thing was possible including themselves, and they went in expecting to raise 40,000 and got 4 million. They didn't even have an outline of what kind of game it was going to be and have been playing catch up since. They spent alot of time trying to work out just what game their backers wanted, most of whom are quite diverse since the only unifying thing they had was a liking of adventure games and DF is concerned of disappointing them and damaging the chances of other KS working.

 

I like to think of it like this: Double Fine, Obsidian and InXile were all swimming in a lake. DF found a dam and decided to open it, getting a face full of water as it flooded in. The other two, seeing the flood, shouted "Surf's up!" grabbed their surfboards and rode the waves but poor DF got swept away and now has to work out how to get back in control. I hope they do.

[Bos_hybrid]

Star Citizen for all it's spamming seems to be on track, but with over $10mil pledged I could see it go off track trying to please everyone.

 

Elite for all it's early stumbles also seems to be doing well.

 

Dead State just released a small update on current progress, thankfully everything seems on track.

 

Wasteland 2 looks good to me, don't know about any disappointments.

 

PE looks like it's chugging along really well. With interesting and informative updates.

 

But I think I'll wait on saying such and such is the best managed title, till after they are all released. Development is a tricky business. 

[Elerond]

[ManifestedISO]

I'm curious what you guys mean by spamming from Star Citizen. I'm not a backer for that project. 

[Elerond]

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission

 

It seems that they do several updates in week, sometimes couple in 24h. Which is probably why some say that they spam with them.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Elerond

[motorizer]

There is just so much info and stuff for star citizen now that I've switched off, I don't read it, I'll play the game when it arrives...

a lot of it seems geared towards getting you to shell out for more starting ships, etc... at least that's how it seemed when I was still reading them

One thing I'm definitely not doing is giving them any more money.

[Infinitron]

I hope you guys realize update frequency isn't directly correlated with how well a project is managed.

[ark]

Considering they have failed to have the backer site up and running after 9 months and counting, they can not be considered to be the best managed by any measure.

 

In addition to PE, I have backed Star Citizen, Divinity: OS, Wasteland 2, Torment, Shadowrun, Sui Generis and Shroud of the Avatar and all these games other than PE and Torment had

their backer sites up within weeks. It is becoming quite frustrating that Obsidian have failed to deliver on this front, and makes me suspect there is something going on behind the scenes we are not being made aware of preventing its release.

 

In my opinion, Star Citizen is far ahead of all others when it comes to the most professional and organised of all kickstarters I have backed, although I am looking forward to PE more.

[Iyanga]

 

As I clarified in another thread - DoubleFine has not run out of money. They have revised their projections and decided that, on the current track, they risk running out of money on the tail end of the game. When deciding whether to cut scope or raise additional funds, they decided to try and raise more by selling the first half on Steam early access.

 

 You can spin it any way you want, it still doesn't change the fact they don't  seem to understand a basic balance sheet? 

 

The problem is not to see when there is no more money. You can tell this already when you start developing the game: money /  monthly salaries = time to develop.

The question is: When money runs out, is the game finished then? And to determine this, you need to know what you have to do and how much time this still takes. And then you also need to have a good estimation how much post-development money you need, for testing and fixing bugs.

 

A spread sheet doesn't tell you before how good the developers work. This is why most projects run out of money during testing. If you realize earlier that you are about to run out of money, it is a sign of an actually properly managed software project. Project management does not prevent problems, it's purpose is to show the problems.

[Elerond]

I hope you guys realize update frequency isn't directly correlated with how well a project is managed.

 

That is absolutely true, but with frequent or/and periodic updates people who aren't involved with production can get better picture how product progress, which is much harder usually do when updates are rare and random. But of course it is possible that project without any updates has managed perfectly, but outsiders don't have anyway judge if that is the case. One thing what people probably learn from Kickstarter projects is that there is reason why companies often want to get periodic and detailed reports from projects that they have funded, even if they don't do anything with them . 

[Elerond]

Considering they have failed to have the backer site up and running after 9 months and counting, they can not be considered to be the best managed by any measure.

 

Considering that backer site is side and separate project to PE, thus I would say that it don't tell us anything about PE.  And it probably should be mentioned that backer site project (in my knowledge) is one mans side project what he does simultaneously with his other tasks and it isn't most urgent project, so it quite understandable that it has been delayed. 

[C2B]

 

Considering they have failed to have the backer site up and running after 9 months and counting, they can not be considered to be the best managed by any measure.

 

Considering that backer site is side and separate project to PE, thus I would say that it don't tell us anything about PE.  And it probably should be mentioned that backer site project (in my knowledge) is one mans side project what he does simultaneously with his other tasks and it isn't most urgent project, so it quite understandable that it has been delayed. 

 

 

Also mentioning, that a full-on backer site was announced after the kickstarter. Originally, it was a survey.

Edited July 5, 2013 by C2B

[Infinitron]

 

I hope you guys realize update frequency isn't directly correlated with how well a project is managed.

 

That is absolutely true, but with frequent or/and periodic updates people who aren't involved with production can get better picture how product progress, which is much harder usually do when updates are rare and random. But of course it is possible that project without any updates has managed perfectly, but outsiders don't have anyway judge if that is the case. One thing what people probably learn from Kickstarter projects is that there is reason why companies often want to get periodic and detailed reports from projects that they have funded, even if they don't do anything with them . 

 

 

Sure, it's definitely a bad sign if a project doesn't give you any updates for months on end.

 

But I don't think that (for instance) whether a project's updates are weekly or merely monthly has any bearing on how well it is being managed.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Infinitron

[Sistergoldring]

I don't know about best managed because I think the word implies things that we as backers aren't really party to but it's certainly the project that I've felt most 'kept in the loop' in.  So what the hell, why not.

 

Yes, Project Eternity is the best managed kickstarter EVER and I'm not even a little biased at all and know exactly what I'm talking about. 

[nikolokolus]

I hope you guys realize update frequency isn't directly correlated with how well a project is managed.

 

Yeah, I definitely see people conflating or confusing PR/community management and budgetary management

[Archmage Silver]

Best managed? Obviously we don't have all the facts, not being a part of the dev team, but based on what I've seen in other campaigns I've backed, I'd say PE is pretty high up there. inXile has done a great job as well IMO.

[ShadySands]

I don't know what the financial situation is for PE but as far as communication I would say PE has been the best managed of any of the games that I've backed by far. I've been impressed with the amount and quality of the updates and enjoyed the back and forth between the devs and the community.

 

I'm not sure how anyone can think Shadowrun Returns has been well managed though. I'm looking forward to the game but between the "unexpected" licensing issues and the fact that they are way over budget I wouldn't say that they are the best managed.

[Diagoras]

Shadowrun Returns is way overbudget? I must have missed that.

[Sensuki]

Just my thoughts but I always thought Double Fine would have problems simply because they were the first: they were the ones who showed just how much money could be raised, before they did it no one expected such a thing was possible including themselves, and they went in expecting to raise 40,000 and got 4 million. They didn't even have an outline of what kind of game it was going to be and have been playing catch up since. They spent alot of time trying to work out just what game their backers wanted, most of whom are quite diverse since the only unifying thing they had was a liking of adventure games and DF is concerned of disappointing them and damaging the chances of other KS working.

 

I like to think of it like this: Double Fine, Obsidian and InXile were all swimming in a lake. DF found a dam and decided to open it, getting a face full of water as it flooded in. The other two, seeing the flood, shouted "Surf's up!" grabbed their surfboards and rode the waves but poor DF got swept away and now has to work out how to get back in control. I hope they do.

Actually no, Double Fine and Tim Schaefer have a history of being over-budget, late with deadlines and mismanagement. Just look at the inflated budget for some of his adventure games and the recent comments from Bobby Kotick about Brutal Legend.

 

It seems this is nothing new for Double Fine. It was sad seeing their Art Director try and convince himself that a game in two parts would be better.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Sensuki

[Diagoras]

Actually no, Double Fine and Tim Schaefer have a history of being over-budget, late with deadlines and mismanagement.

 

 

Really? Is there anything other than a Kotick quote behind this? Because I'm not one to put a lot of weight on what he says.