Expiring Potions (to discourage excessive resting and potion hoarding)

[Vahn]

Simple as it sounds in the title: potions have expiration dates. This let's players rest whenever they want without giving them many plot/story penalties ("you're too late hero, we've killed everyone in town") but instead apply direct combat penalties. As an added bonus, I can only guess that players would be much less likely to hoard potions, something they can often ease into. If somebody wanted to get very creative, certain expired potions could become acids, poisons, alchemic ingredients, bombs,  or even entirely different potions. Thoughts?

[Orogun01]

Doesn't sound like much fun

[silvercross]

^ Agreed. I don't really see how this improves the gaming experience. Just sounds annoying to deal with.

[Walsingham]

I sympathise with your intent. But I agree with the other responders that this would be annoying.

 

I've been doing a FO:NV playthrough without hoarding, and enjoying it a lot more than normal. I got the idea because at the end of my last playthrough I worked out I had barely touched any of the caches I'd built up so painstakingly.

 

If you want to stop the old squirrels then there are better ways than targeting a specific item. I'd be interested in what your thoughts on that would be.

[Blessedborn]

That's actually a pretty clever way to solve the problem of players just resting constantly, but as others have said, it also sounds kinda unfun.

[Amentep]

"I'll pull out those potions we through in the Deep Stash before we go through this door"

 

*checks expiration date*

 

"FUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-"

 

I think the better way to deal with potion hording is to give a reason for them to be used, which means that they have to have more utility than their cost to replinish.

 

The thing is that usually (like many resources) they're more necessary at lower levels (when you don't have the money to buy) than at higher levels.

 

Now IIRC (and I may not) isn't the idea that only potions, healing spells and maybe inn rest can heal Health while stamina recovers over time. Stamina increases greatly as you advance, health not so much.

 

If so, then the mechanics seem to already be addressing potion hording by making them darn important to the user.

 

(Besides, the more exciting way to deal with this is after a certain date they expire, after that there's a curve on their increasingly likelihood to explode catastrophically in your pack, eventually making them useful again as thrown grenades about as stable as nitro).

[Gfted1]

Maybe if players drink the expired potion it will cause a catastrophic explosion in their pants and give them a dysentery debuff?

[Walsingham]

Amentep makes an interesting suggestion there. I kinda like the idea that stuff doesn't disappear but it does shift utility.

 

~

 

I'm sure I now the first person here to wonder why no-one steals from your stashes. There could be some good side quests involving tracking down missing stashes.

[Sacred_Path]

I guess this means no potions in ancient treasure chests mirite

[rjshae]

Whenever I play a game with potions I almost always seem to end up using them a lot less than I probably should. The exception is usually potions in games where they are frequently necessary to survive combat, such as healing potions in DA2.

[Gumbercules]

Do we even know if the game will have potions? Stamina automatically regenerates outside of combat, health can only be regained at resting spots, and there isn't any mana resource, so there doesn't seem to be much room for traditional replenishing potions. Their only potential use would be for restoring stamina in combat, and that doesn't sound like something that needs to be limited, plus there's already a potential limit in the fact that only a small portion of your inventory is accessible in combat.

 

Witcher-style potions that give you various new abilities and buffs might be neat, however, and those are already limited through the toxicity mechanic.

[quechn1tlan]

And you need "to discourage excessive resting and potion hoarding" why exactly?

Frequent resting\hoarding of others does not a) affect overall game design in any way, b) affect your game in any way.

So yeah, um...no.

[Walsingham]

I hope I'm not going too far off topic if I raise the issue of _self_ shaping a game experience.

 

I'd been wondering what Old World Blues would be like with the same start setup as Dead Money. And I realised that of course it's easy to find out. I just dumped all my crap in a dustbin before hitting the portal. I hugely enjoyed it, just as I did with Dead Money.

 

I could have demanded a mod to do that. Or I could just crack on and do it.

[TrashMan]

Whenever I play a game with potions I almost always seem to end up using them a lot less than I probably should. The exception is usually potions in games where they are frequently necessary to survive combat, such as healing potions in DA2.

 

You don't use them because:

 

1) you can save/load so you don't REALLY need them in this fight

2) they are good forever, so no reason to use them now

3) hoarding conditioning

[rjshae]

 

Whenever I play a game with potions I almost always seem to end up using them a lot less than I probably should. The exception is usually potions in games where they are frequently necessary to survive combat, such as healing potions in DA2.

 

You don't use them because:

 

1) you can save/load so you don't REALLY need them in this fight

2) they are good forever, so no reason to use them now

3) hoarding conditioning

 

Well no, I think I mostly just forget they are there. Many specialty potions are only useful in certain conditions, so they tend to sit in the pack and become forgotten. On the other hand, healing draughts that are readily available, or frequently needed, do get used.

Edited July 3, 2013 by rjshae

[Sylvius the Mad]

I like hoarding potions. I want to hoard potions. Don't take that away from me.

[Lephys]

I like hoarding potions. I want to hoard potions. Don't take that away from me.

*Hypnotizes you and removes your enjoyment of hoarding potions.*

 

Hmm... I may have misconstrued your meaning.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Lephys

[forgottenlor]

 

 

Whenever I play a game with potions I almost always seem to end up using them a lot less than I probably should. The exception is usually potions in games where they are frequently necessary to survive combat, such as healing potions in DA2.

 

You don't use them because:

 

1) you can save/load so you don't REALLY need them in this fight

2) they are good forever, so no reason to use them now

3) hoarding conditioning

 

Well no, I think I mostly just forget they are there. Many specialty potions are only useful in certain conditions, so they tend to sit in the pack and become forgotten. On the other hand, healing draughts that are readily available, or frequently needed, do get used.

 

 

 

I actually agree with all of this. If I can win a fight the first time, I use no potions. If I lose, my first response is to reload and try again. If I still can't win after 2-3 times,  then I usually pause to consider what equipment I could use to improve my odds. So I pretty much only use expendables in really difficult battles, and only the ones that can help me in that specific situation.

[Gallenger]

In the old IE games, on the initial play through, you always generally had to use special use potions *during* fights, unless you were into just dying and save/loading (I'm far too impatient for that).  Of course, on subsequent playthroughs you know when to use that potion of fire resistance, etc. 

 

I don't personally like the idea, it's neat, and to be honest, I'm one of those sickos that hopes there's a hardcore mode where you have to manage people's food and water intake, your weapons break constantly, and your merry band of adventurers are basically perpetually reduced to foraging about the woods for berries or a clean stream, only to be run off by a dire wolf.  But ultimately it's nice to horde potions for just that perfect moment to give you that extra feeling of security, and especially with how *large* this game is supposed to be, some things could be pretty rough without special use items you have sitting in your inventory for ages, unless they just recycle multi-colored hobgoblins at us (I doubt they will do this). 

[rjshae]

If you're not using them and you know that they are going to expire, then selling them is probably the best option.

 

I think they just need to make potions convenient to use so they provide a ready temptation.

[Kalderas]

In morrowind i always used my potions when i had alchemy.

[Walsingham]

 

I actually agree with all of this. If I can win a fight the first time, I use no potions. If I lose, my first response is to reload and try again. If I still can't win after 2-3 times,  then I usually pause to consider what equipment I could use to improve my odds. So I pretty much only use expendables in really difficult battles, and only the ones that can help me in that specific situation.

 

 

Same, but that's because I get overwhelmed with battle frenzy.

[forgottenlor]

The same with me. Its not so much as a desire not to use potions, but that I really don't even think about them, unless I win some distance from the game. Battle Frenzy is a good way to put it.

[Atreides]

I could see a stoner smoking "herbs" all the time that "changes" perception and unlocks dialogue options and solutions.  Same for potions - could be a valid reason to keep chugging them outside combat until addicted or to maintain a status.

[Shevek]

This sounds like a totally unneccessary mechanic that will do little but frustrate the player. If someone wants to hoard their potions, let them. That is their choice. If you do not wish to hoard potions, then use them. Certainly, the game CAN limit potion overabundance but not like this.

 

The best way to limit players having an overabundance of potions is simply to either...

 

a) limit the influx of consumables

b) increase the attractiveness of potion use

c) make it mechanically difficult to carry many due to weight or limited inventory slots

 

The above solutions can all be implemented and have been in titles in the past. Your idea, however... The notion of having potions expire is terrible because the player would have an added layer of unwelcome micromanagement. Additionally, this would mean potions couldn't "stack" since each individual potion would need its own expiration timer. Players would need to constantly check the status of their individual potions if they want to make sure not to let their goods go to waste. This all sounds absolutely terrible. The player would be inundated by the tiresome task of having to repeated take inventory before the game robs him of his hard earned goods. And for what? Sorry, this suggestion is lacking.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Shevek