Prism Program ( Big Brother gone too far?)

[TrashMan]

All joking aside there is a lot going on in the country that just depresses the hell out of me. Prism, the IRS has become Obama's own secret police targeting political dissenters, DHS is buying armored personnel carriers and weapons and ammo like they are expecting to go to war tomorrow, the IRS is training tax agents in the use of automatic weapons, our phone calls and internet use are being monitored, military members are being ordered not to read certain books, a mayor is Pinellas County is being sued for keeping a bible on her desk, the DHHS refused to allow a pair of 10 year old girls to have a lung transplant to satisfy policy... I could go on.

 

Waitwhut?

 

Since when is owning a book a crime?

[TrashMan]

For all who supports PRISM

 

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin

 

and I am not even US citizen hah

 

Also go and read Orwell

 

 

George, Ben has been drinking again and writing BS.

[Tagaziel]

well If you think that spiing on me will help with overpopulation you are fool, and its not first time, all great empires of history were ''globalizations' and climate changes were there from beginning of time. And you know what? most of problems were 'fixed' by some horrific war (especialy good way how to deal with overpopulation) all of this have nothing to do with giving up my privacy. We in Europe still have some degreee of democracy so dont apply American fascistic manners on me, thanks. If I have choise 1) never allow me to enter America territory or 2) let us spy on you I would definetly skip trip to US

 

And for record, I dont have facebook, I dont have twitter, I dont have blog, Internet was developed in Germany as far as I know. And yes I got Google email even I dont want to (company email) and my personal email is not on google. I dont use my real name on any internet page I know of

I'm kind of sad that I share a continent with you.

[Chilloutman]

Why? I can tell same if you are protecting PRISM but I try to not insult people as much as possible and mainly I dont force them my view of world (as opposed what PRISM actually do)

[Walsingham]

It's a tiny aside, but you do know that wars don't depopulate. Only disease does that. Wars cause baby booms.

[Meshugger]

Why can't we watch the government and its agancies the same way they watch us? It would only be fair.

[Tagaziel]

Why can't we watch the government and its agancies the same way they watch us? It would only be fair.

Ever heard of the Freedom of Information Act?

[Walsingham]

Why can't we watch the government and its agancies the same way they watch us? It would only be fair.

 

Not to mention kinda sexy.

[Orogun01]

 

Why can't we watch the government and its agancies the same way they watch us? It would only be fair.

Ever heard of the Freedom of Information Act?

 

Which is as effective as calling fisticuffs on a fight with Mike Tyson. 

[Walsingham]

[Zoraptor]

Sarcasm aside, I think you've confused Bentham with Foucault, the designer of the Panopticon and the developer of the panopticism theory.

 

Also, 1984 is not really relevant because there is no ubiquitous Thought Police. The key difference is that Miniluv could and did monitor everyone, everywhere, at every point of their lives. Our intelligence agencies do not and cannot do that.

Nope, I was thinking of Bentham, the, er, designer of the Panopticon prison- where a single guard could theoretically watch any inmate at any time- centuries before Foucault even lived.

 

Intelligence agencies don't do that yet, but by deity they'd love to be able to.

 

Since when is owning a book a crime?

He's being sued presumably over separation of church and state provisions so it won't be owning the book that's the crime. Think of it as being similar to being fined/ ejected from a theatre for using a cellphone, it isn't the phone that's the problem, it's it being in a theatre.

 

Pretty sure there is an actual prescribed list though, things like the Anarchist's Cookbook*

 

And yes I got Google email even I dont want to (company email)

Wonder how long your company will keep using google, now that they know for sure that it's a click away from some NSA contractor having a look through everything. Hope nothing commercially sensitive is being sent.

 

*g'day, NSA operator, hope you enjoyed reading my post

[Walsingham]

I'm always mildly amused that people who argue words are more powerful than guns don't want more control over words.

[Zoraptor]

It is confirmed that NSA still have to retrieve data through legal means from those web companies. They don't have total authority over this.

 

Yeah, and last year the score was 1000+ to zero in terms of approvals to rejections, by that court, and there are zero counter arguments heard, ie the presentations are unopposed. The first part indicates it's a rubber stamp, the second shows it's explicitly designed to be a rubber stamp.

[Tagaziel]

So, do you have a constructive solution? One that doesn't involve blinding and crippling the U.S. intelligence agencies?

[Orogun01]

So, do you have a constructive solution? One that doesn't involve blinding and crippling the U.S. intelligence agencies?

As far as we know they have been doing their jobs without spying on US citizens on a massive scale. Its their job to come up with legal ways to find intelligence, if they can't come up with an alternative because they are incapable of it then I've no reason to believe that they are capable of proper handling the entirety of the US internet information. Plus what guarantee there is that info won't find it's way into other hands for purposes that have nothing to do with National Security?

[Tagaziel]

As far as we know they have been doing their jobs without spying on US citizens on a massive scale. Its their job to come up with legal ways to find intelligence, if they can't come up with an alternative because they are incapable of it then I've no reason to believe that they are capable of proper handling the entirety of the US internet information. Plus what guarantee there is that info won't find it's way into other hands for purposes that have nothing to do with National Security?

The system is legal, so the point is moot.

 

The logic "if something ends up where it shouldn't" is bizarre. There is no guarantee that a surgeon won't accidentally sew up a scalpel in your abdomen. There is no guarantee that a policeman won't confuse you for a suspect and detain you. There's no guarantee that you won't get ran over by a car next time you cross the road. See the pattern?

[Walsingham]

 

It is confirmed that NSA still have to retrieve data through legal means from those web companies. They don't have total authority over this.

 

Yeah, and last year the score was 1000+ to zero in terms of approvals to rejections, by that court, and there are zero counter arguments heard, ie the presentations are unopposed. The first part indicates it's a rubber stamp, the second shows it's explicitly designed to be a rubber stamp.

 

 

I'd have to agree that this looks weird. A control system that never functions is either running a very naturally regulated engine or it's borked. Do you know what the guidelines are for them rejecting a request?

[Chilloutman]

 

As far as we know they have been doing their jobs without spying on US citizens on a massive scale. Its their job to come up with legal ways to find intelligence, if they can't come up with an alternative because they are incapable of it then I've no reason to believe that they are capable of proper handling the entirety of the US internet information. Plus what guarantee there is that info won't find it's way into other hands for purposes that have nothing to do with National Security?

The system is legal, so the point is moot.

 

The logic "if something ends up where it shouldn't" is bizarre. There is no guarantee that a surgeon won't accidentally sew up a scalpel in your abdomen. There is no guarantee that a policeman won't confuse you for a suspect and detain you. There's no guarantee that you won't get ran over by a car next time you cross the road. See the pattern?

 

 

But if surgeon or policmen do something wrong he is controlled and will be punished, who control these agencies? + System is maybe legal in US, noone asked me or EU if we are ok with it. I starting to think that you are that type of american who thinks America is tha best and can do whatever you guys want

[BruceVC]

 

 

As far as we know they have been doing their jobs without spying on US citizens on a massive scale. Its their job to come up with legal ways to find intelligence, if they can't come up with an alternative because they are incapable of it then I've no reason to believe that they are capable of proper handling the entirety of the US internet information. Plus what guarantee there is that info won't find it's way into other hands for purposes that have nothing to do with National Security?

The system is legal, so the point is moot.

 

The logic "if something ends up where it shouldn't" is bizarre. There is no guarantee that a surgeon won't accidentally sew up a scalpel in your abdomen. There is no guarantee that a policeman won't confuse you for a suspect and detain you. There's no guarantee that you won't get ran over by a car next time you cross the road. See the pattern?

 

 

But if surgeon or policmen do something wrong he is controlled and will be punished, who control these agencies? + System is maybe legal in US, noone asked me or EU if we are ok with it. I starting to think that you are that type of american who thinks America is tha best and can do whatever you guys want

 

 

Chilloutman you do realize that Prism is probably monitoring what you say about it right now? Don't be surprised if men in coats come knocking at your door later tonight and say " we would like a word with you"

[Guard Dog]

  I expect that exact thing will be happening at some point in the near future Bruce! When it happens to me you will all know it. It will make the news. I've always said when they come for me they had best send well armed men with no families to worry about.

 

You hear that Janet Napolitano, NSA, CIA, and whomever else is reading?

[Hurlshort]

If only we all were important enough to warrant the attention of government agencies

 

The government does get in trouble, much like a surgeon or a policeman, when they mess up.  They are in trouble right now.  The NSA is under scrutiny and the IRS is getting lambasted.  The NSA does not want all this media attention, it is the worst thing that can happen to them.  The IRS does not want to get audited.  These things completely undermine their authority.  

 

I don't trust the government.  I trust the political, media, and social pressure that is put on them when they go too far.

[Malcador]

Well, see if the pressure leads to anything other than lip service, first. Guess that is a problem innate to the work the agency does, have to trust your politicians.

[Guard Dog]

Not really Hurlshot. Nothing will change. The media will eventually be told to shut up and they will comply because they are friendly to the current admin. The Briebarts and Drudges won't for all that will matter. Like I've posted before, the fatal flaw in our country is that too many people will accept the most horrifying malfeasance from the government so long it is "their guy" doing it. Nothing will change, already their attitude is "So What?" and they are actively looking to prosecute everyone who blows a whistle about it. 

 

I think we are in serious trouble.

[BruceVC]

 

 

I don't trust the government.  I trust the political, media, and social pressure that is put on them when they go too far.

 

This has to be one of the most relevant and insightful comments I have heard around this topic. Well played young grasshopper, well played

[BruceVC]

Not really Hurlshot. Nothing will change. The media will eventually be told to shut up and they will comply because they are friendly to the current admin. The Briebarts and Drudges won't for all that will matter. Like I've posted before, the fatal flaw in our country is that too many people will accept the most horrifying malfeasance from the government so long it is "their guy" doing it. Nothing will change, already their attitude is "So What?" and they are actively looking to prosecute everyone who blows a whistle about it. 

 

I think we are in serious trouble.

 

GB why don't you come live in South Africa? You can bring Tommy and we don't have the money to afford programs like Prism so you won't have your privacy compromised?