Fear of women body in modern videogames

[obyknven]

Not really. Having a fantastic ass and having tittays like those in Dragon Crown are two different things.

O'RLY?

 

Anyway this thread is not about how realistic Dragon' crown artstyle. This thread about ban of sexuality in modern games, attack against Dragon's crown is not first attempt of making games Puritan. Just remember witch-hunt against Rockstar Games, now its story repeated again, this is systematic attacks and it's looks scary.

[Walsingham]

Query

 

Lady Evenstar makes a point about context. Is some of the negative perception arising from the gamers not the games? You could attend the most sophisticated and breathtakingly female centric Spanish film ever made about sexuality, but if you attended it in a room full of 16 year old boys it's going to seem sleazy.

[BruceVC]

Query

 

Lady Evenstar makes a point about context. Is some of the negative perception arising from the gamers not the games? You could attend the most sophisticated and breathtakingly female centric Spanish film ever made about sexuality, but if you attended it in a room full of 16 year old boys it's going to seem sleazy.

 

I think that is relevant and would create a certain view that isn't what you and I may interpret from a movie or game.

[Walsingham]

Well, my point is that gaming, or a variety of reasons, is an activity enjoyed by young males. They are, by definition, immature. Their reaction to any female is going to be sleazy. Believe me. I come from before the internet.

 

Yes, designers play up to the sleazy instincts of their market. As others have said here. But they don't MAKE the market sleazy.

 

Obviously, obyknven wants some kind of big government daddy figure to step in and tell us all what breasticles to like. My rejoinder is actually what mkreku said earlier:

 

You want it, you make it.

[Hurlshort]

My big breasted question is does the cleavage add anything positive to the game?  I mean a game like Leisure Suit Larry revolves around them, so it makes sense in the setting.  Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball is pretty much relying on boobs, it's not like fully clothed volleyball games sell well.  This Dragon's Crown game seems to be a simple Action RPG.  Now the negative publicity might be an actual boon to the game, I probably never would have noticed it if not for threads and articles like these.  In that regard it reminds me of Postal, a mediocre game elevated because of negative attention seeking.  

 

I don't have a problem with games like these existing, but lets not act like they are art  

[Keyrock]

Agreed about Postal, but in fairness, we don't know if Dragon Crown is a crappy, mediocre, or good game yet.  If it winds up being a good game then I wouldn't let the art style, which I find ridiculous, stop me from buying it.  I'll let the fact that I don't own a PS3 or Vita stop me from buying it, but if I owned one of those devices and it was a fun game that appealed to me, I'd likely wind up getting it and putting up with the art style.  Conversely, I'm highly unlikely to buy a game on art style alone, even if I really like the art style.  Art style does add or take away from a game a bit, but it's very far down the list for me and it certainly won't trump story, character depth, or gameplay.

[Walsingham]

My big breasted question is does the cleavage add anything positive to the game?  I mean a game like Leisure Suit Larry revolves around them, so it makes sense in the setting.  Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball is pretty much relying on boobs, it's not like fully clothed volleyball games sell well.  This Dragon's Crown game seems to be a simple Action RPG.  Now the negative publicity might be an actual boon to the game, I probably never would have noticed it if not for threads and articles like these.  In that regard it reminds me of Postal, a mediocre game elevated because of negative attention seeking.  

 

I don't have a problem with games like these existing, but lets not act like they are art

 

Point to raise about Obsidian: every single female in the Fallout New Vegas arc is a completely identical C-cup. It's a little immersion breaking. But it's about as close to asexual as you could get without having to explain yourself in the world building.

[BruceVC]

 

My big breasted question is does the cleavage add anything positive to the game?  I mean a game like Leisure Suit Larry revolves around them, so it makes sense in the setting.  Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball is pretty much relying on boobs, it's not like fully clothed volleyball games sell well.  This Dragon's Crown game seems to be a simple Action RPG.  Now the negative publicity might be an actual boon to the game, I probably never would have noticed it if not for threads and articles like these.  In that regard it reminds me of Postal, a mediocre game elevated because of negative attention seeking.  

 

I don't have a problem with games like these existing, but lets not act like they are art

 

Point to raise about Obsidian: every single female in the Fallout New Vegas arc is a completely identical C-cup. It's a little immersion breaking. But it's about as close to asexual as you could get without having to explain yourself in the world building.

 

 

 

It doesn't have to be, I used certain adult mods to change this part and certain others of F:NV.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Not really. Having a fantastic ass and having tittays like those in Dragon Crown are two different things.

 

O'RLY?

Yes. Not only are that woman's breasts smaller than her head, the way she is posing exageratess their size.

 

It doesn't have to be, I used certain adult mods to change this part and certain others of F:NV.

Somehow, I'm not surprised. Edited June 9, 2013 by KaineParker

[Chaz]

I don't have a problem with games like these existing, but lets not act like they are art

 

So, if you'rere drawing of a woman it's art, but if you animate that drawing, give her hit points and mechanics it stops beign art? Man... this forum.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Chaz

[Keyrock]

 

My big breasted question is does the cleavage add anything positive to the game?  I mean a game like Leisure Suit Larry revolves around them, so it makes sense in the setting.  Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball is pretty much relying on boobs, it's not like fully clothed volleyball games sell well.  This Dragon's Crown game seems to be a simple Action RPG.  Now the negative publicity might be an actual boon to the game, I probably never would have noticed it if not for threads and articles like these.  In that regard it reminds me of Postal, a mediocre game elevated because of negative attention seeking.  

 

I don't have a problem with games like these existing, but lets not act like they are art

 

Point to raise about Obsidian: every single female in the Fallout New Vegas arc is a completely identical C-cup. It's a little immersion breaking. But it's about as close to asexual as you could get without having to explain yourself in the world building.

 

The one size fits all female bodies in F:NV are likely a product of budget/time constraints more than anything else.  Besides, as Bruce already wrote, if someone wants big boobies and/or brazilian ass, they need look no further than the modding community

[HoonDing]

Typical of Bethesda not to add boob and ass sliders to their games, always counting on modders to fix it.

[Keyrock]

Typical of Bethesda not to add boob and ass sliders to their games, always counting on modders to fix it.

Eventually, Bethesda won't even bother making a game at all.  They'll just throw out a mod kit and a few slapped together assets and have the modding community make the game for them.  The upside is that there's a good chance we'll wind up getting a better story and more character depth.

[Orogun01]

 

I don't have a problem with games like these existing, but lets not act like they are art

 

So, if you'rere drawing of a woman it's art, but if you animate that drawing, give her hit points and mechanics it stops beign art? Man... this forum.

 

There is a difference between fine art and applied art, video games are not fine art because what makes them a game is not art. Also the fact that the core video game audience is a bunch of 16 years old is plainly evident as that article was written by one.

[Chaz]

There is a difference between fine art and applied art, video games are not fine art because what makes them a game is not art. Also the fact that the core video game audience is a bunch of 16 years old is plainly evident as that article was written by one.

 

 

We are discussing drawings, and that's art weather you like it or not, we're not talking about mechanics or programming. And all core gamers are 16 years old, where did you get that information? from the same place where you learned about applied art and fine art? insulting gamers in general (when you're in a gaming forum discussing games) and pulling statistics out of your butt. Man.... this forums.

[Orogun01]

 

There is a difference between fine art and applied art, video games are not fine art because what makes them a game is not art. Also the fact that the core video game audience is a bunch of 16 years old is plainly evident as that article was written by one.

 

 

We are discussing drawings, and that's art weather you like it or not, we're not talking about mechanics or programming. And all core gamers are 16 years old, where did you get that information? from the same place where you learned about applied art and fine art? insulting gamers in general (when you're in a gaming forum discussing games) and pulling statistics out of your butt. Man.... this forums.

 

Your argument was that the transformation of that said drawing into a game asset negated it's properties as art; my response was that while it doesn't negate them it doesn't necessary transfer them into the medium in which its portrayed.

I said that the core video gaming audience is in the age range of 16 not that all gamers are 16 (check your fallacies). I didn't pull any statistics and the only person who is seemingly immature enough to be offended is you. 

If you can't rebut the actual point made in my post I would kindly suggest that you cease and let the discussion take it's course. I mean no offense.

[Hurlshort]

Chaz, you keep cherry picking sentences without answering the main question. 

 

Do the huge boobs add anything positive to the game?

 

 

 

Also I very clearly said the GAME is not art.  But that was a very general and flippant statement followed by a so I will try and keep my posts more simple for you.

[Chaz]

I said that the core video gaming audience is in the age range of 16 not that all gamers are 16 (check your fallacies). I didn't pull any statistics and the only person who is seemingly immature enough to be offended is you. 

If you can't rebut the actual point made in my post I would kindly suggest that you cease and let the discussion take it's course. I mean no offense.

 

 

Are you effing kidding me? Are you gonna lie about what you just said in a forum where I can just scroll up and read myself?

 

 

Also the fact that the core video game audience is a bunch of 16 years old is plainly evident as that article was written by one.

 

 

You didn't say "age range of 16" buddy, if you're going to argue dishonestly at least try to be smart about it, you pulled a statement out of your butt that the gamers are a bunch of 16 years old, called a FACT, and tried to use it to desqualify the person that wrote an article (I guess you were talking about a post)

 

So don't tell me to "check my fallacies" when I call you out for using ad hominem attacks pal, and you even have the balls to call me immature when you're calling gamers "a bunch of 16 years old" just because you disagree with them? Please!

 

Chaz, you keep cherry picking sentences without answering the main question. 

 

Do the huge boobs add anything positive to the game?

 

 

I know that saying this is shocking in 2013, but yes, most men (and a few women) enjoy watching attractive female characters, and it's not a freaking crime, we shouldn't have to be apologetic about it.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Chaz

[Hurlshort]

 

 

Chaz, you keep cherry picking sentences without answering the main question. 

 

Do the huge boobs add anything positive to the game?

 

 

I know that saying this is shocking in 2013, but yes, most men (and a few women) enjoy watching attractive female characters, and it's not a freaking crime, we shouldn't have to be aplogetic about it.

 

 

Oh I agree with that, and I've even pointed out a bunch of games where titillation is an integral part of the game design.  But these are my two concerns with Dragon's Crown:

 

1.  It's an action RPG.  It is one thing to make the characters attractive, it is another to make them a distraction.  Instead of talking about story or gameplay, we are talking about boobs.  

 

2.  Do most men an a few women really find these art assets attractive?  Maybe we should create a poll, because I'd say no.  It may be a matter of opinion, but I know if I showed this to my wife and said "We should play this co-op!" she would scoff and leave the room.  I don't know a single woman that would react differently.  And honestly I don't know many men that wouldn't simply laugh at it and pass it over. 

[Katphood]

Here she is on another box cover, this one significantly more tame....

Sonny, you just stabbed this thread in the throat with that pic!

[Volourn]

"Do the huge boobs add anything positive to the game?"

 

Uh... Is this a serious question? By their very existence they add something positive.

[Chaz]

Oh I agree with that, and I've even pointed out a bunch of games where titillation is an integral part of the game design.  But these are my two concerns with Dragon's Crown:

 

 

1.  It's an action RPG.  It is one thing to make the characters attractive, it is another to make them a distraction.  Instead of talking about story or gameplay, we are talking about boobs.  

 

2.  Do most men an a few women really find these art assets attractive?  Maybe we should create a poll, because I'd say no.  It may be a matter of opinion, but I know if I showed this to my wife and said "We should play this co-op!" she would scoff and leave the room.  I don't know a single woman that would react differently.  And honestly I don't know many men that wouldn't simply laugh at it and pass it over. 

 

 

I'm gonna shock the whole forum, even though I'm defending Dragon Crown, I also think they are a bit exaggerated, but for me it's a non-issue, I'm not gonna make a big deal about it and I think that the ones making a scandal out of this are a bit immature (PA, kotaku, the escapists,etc). And who knows, maybe their gameplay is great and it's a very entertaining action, and while the art is a bit over the top, sexual themes are already regulated by the ESRB and not every game should be E for everyone in order to achieve mass audience appeal.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Chaz

[BruceVC]

 

Oh I agree with that, and I've even pointed out a bunch of games where titillation is an integral part of the game design.  But these are my two concerns with Dragon's Crown:

 

 

1.  It's an action RPG.  It is one thing to make the characters attractive, it is another to make them a distraction.  Instead of talking about story or gameplay, we are talking about boobs.  

 

2.  Do most men an a few women really find these art assets attractive?  Maybe we should create a poll, because I'd say no.  It may be a matter of opinion, but I know if I showed this to my wife and said "We should play this co-op!" she would scoff and leave the room.  I don't know a single woman that would react differently.  And honestly I don't know many men that wouldn't simply laugh at it and pass it over. 

 

 

I'm gonna shock the whole forum, even though I'm defending Dragon Crown, I also think they are a bit exaggerated, but for me it's a non-issue, I'm not gonna make a big deal about it and I think that the ones making a scandal out of this are a bit immature (PA, kotaku, the escapists,etc). And who knows, maybe their gameplay is great and it's a very entertaining action, and while the art is a bit over the top, sexual themes are already regulated by the ESRB and not every game should be E for everyone in order to achieve mass audience appeal.

 

That is a surprise, why were you arguing that you felt the Dragon Crown interpretation of women is normal and acceptable then?

Edited June 10, 2013 by BruceVC

[Orogun01]

Because every game has women in skimpy outfits and Dragon's Crown is therefore the norm?

[BruceVC]

Because every game has women in skimpy outfits and Dragon's Crown is therefore the norm?

 

 

But that's the thing, Dragon Crown is an extreme example of how women look in games. I don't see it as the norm

 

Many people like myself who argue around the importance of the aesthetics of female characters don't expect or want Dragon Crown characters just not a Cadegund similar look. Someone like Isabella would be more than suitable?