Inventory management

[rjshae]

There was a nice PE round-up article on GameBanshee:

 

http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/111526-project-eternity-social-round-up.html

 

In particular, one section caught my eye:

 

What limits will be imposed upon the inventory? Weight? Size of items? Slot size? Will we see weak elf stuffed with 100 full plates of feather weight? Or party of barbarians and paladins with inventroy filled with 100 slots of beans?

In the current design, party Stash size (withdrawals only available at rest locations) is unlimited. Worn Equipment is slot-based and is the same for all characters (barring abilities or talents that do things like increase available weapon sets). The one area we haven't decided on in terms of capacity is the shared Pack, which is gear that is not actively worn but available for access outside of combat. However it is defined, it will always be displayed as a unified UI for the player so they aren't flipping between characters for what is, practically-speaking, a shared inventory.

 

I do like the idea of a shared inventory. However, I wonder about the limit on the shared Pack. What would happen if there were no hard limit on this? Instead, it could be unlimited in capacity but impose penalties as the total bulk increases.

 

Imagine the party trying to tow a bunch of heavy packs down through a dungeon: they would be spending more of their attention on carrying the heavy load and less on carefully watching their surroundings. Hence, the heavier the shared Pack, the greater the penalties to skills like Spot and Search. Plus they would be slower to react to a dangerous situation, so they take Reflex-like penalties when avoiding traps or explosions and an initiative penalty at the start of combat.

 

An implementation such as this provides an incentive for the player to put extra points into character Strength scores and to keep the Pack light and tight.

 

What do you think?

[Gfted1]

So theres really only two inventory bags and they are both shared, right? One Stash and one Pack. That does make it cleaner than clicking through each party members individual bags. I hope the Pack is suitably large to account for supplying 6 people.

[chabba990]

I think the idea of a Shared Inventory is very good, and it would be proportional both in size and capacity with the number of NPCs in your party.

However, I also think that it would be the right time to implement a Self Selecting Inventory. Any item you pick up will be automatically sorted into one of your sub-container. These containers should be:

0. Equipped Items: Clothing, armor, weapons, hidden weapons/ secondary weapons, as well as jewellery, and any other accessories.
1. Main Bag: Large items like weapons, armors, and devices should be placed in this. I have no problem with the grids, in fact it is the easiest way to visualize the whole capacity of your backpack. Maybe it should have 3 layers or something, and on such layer should be like 10x20 slots.
2. Pocket: It would be like a wallet or purse. Coins of all type, as well as gems, jewellery, and other small but precious things should be placed in this. The point is, that even though it has the same dimensions (grids), it would obviously smaller in game-reality. It should be on your belt of course.
3. Scroll Case: Scrolls, tomes, and any important paper should be placed into this. I imagine it somehow attached to your backpack, or on a handbag on your shoulders.
4. Potion Case: Potions, oils, and philters. I always thought that potions are as small as a nail-polish thingy so they should definitely be placed around your belt. :D

5. Key Holder: If the game uses keys than this is a must have. Aside from keys, it should also contain runestones, or any miscalleneous item. I remember how annoying it was in both BG and NWN.

 

[Nonek]

Hope we have some visual representation of a backpack or such, little tired of them being mentioned in game narratives and yet clearly not existing visually in any manner whatsoever.

[Lephys]

I HIGHLY doubt the Shared Pack has any chance of being infinite in size. That would literally defeat the purpose of the Stash. "You can't access anything in your Stash, but you can ALWAYS put it in your Shared Pack, instead, and access it whenever! 8D"

 

I think they only meant that they're not sure exactly what finite size to make it.

[rjshae]

I HIGHLY doubt the Shared Pack has any chance of being infinite in size. That would literally defeat the purpose of the Stash. "You can't access anything in your Stash, but you can ALWAYS put it in your Shared Pack, instead, and access it whenever! 8D"

 

I think they only meant that they're not sure exactly what finite size to make it.

 

Oh sure, but do you make it small and make the party do frequent trips to camp for a loot unload? Or do you make it huge? Some type of weight-based penalties would allow the player to choose how much loot they want to carry around while still making the stash relevant. With weight incentives, I could see the party entering a dungeon with a nearly empty shared Pack so that they can escape with plenty of loot at the end of the foray.

[Lephys]

Oh sure, but do you make it small and make the party do frequent trips to camp for a loot unload? Or do you make it huge? Some type of weight-based penalties would allow the player to choose how much loot they want to carry around while still making the stash relevant. With weight incentives, I could see the party entering a dungeon with a nearly empty shared Pack so that they can escape with plenty of loot at the end of the foray.

Unless I missed something, the Stash is always available to put things into. It's just that things can only be taken out of it at campsites/towns, etc.

 

The Shared Pack is the area where not-immediately-equipped items reside that can be equipped and/or used and/or shuffled about/dropped/etc. without having to travel back out of a dungeon/"dangerous" region to do so.

 

This is what has confused me regarding your post. You can travel into a dungeon with a FULL shared Pack and still escape with plenty of loot at the end of the foray. It's just that, if you find a Sword of Awesome halfway through the dungeon, the only options are "put it in the Stash where I can't access it" or "leave it lying about upon the ground." Whereas, if you had Pack space, you could actually equip the Sword of Awesome now (AND keep your current weapon).

 

Well, actually, I suppose you could always toss your immediately-equipped weapon into the Stash, then pick up and directly equip the Sword of Awesome. *shrug* Not sure if that's true or not.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Lephys

[crackwise]

I like the inventory system of the 1.13 mod for Jagged Alliance 2 a lot. Basically the equipment you can carry on you depends on the bags, pouches, vests you wear/carry. For instance you can stash ammo magazines in the pouches of your vest, carry a med-kit if you have backpack, stash your additional SMG if you have a SMG holster etc. Some similar system could be implemented perhaps in PE.

 

The equipment also has weight and if you exceed your character's carry limit, your character is slowed drastically. Some may find such a system kind of tedious and annoying, but I find it very realistic and fun, but of course I am not sure how well it can be implemented to the PE gameplay, just an idea.

 

Anyway, here is a screenshot:

 

Edited May 24, 2013 by crackwise

[Lephys]

I've always thought it would be nice if, instead of simply tossing a stack of daggers into a backpack, you actually had to strap them neatly onto your person or pack. You know, belt loops, sheathes, etc.

 

Well, not that you HAD to. But, it just seemed silly to me that there's no method of carrying weapons like that, and that axes and swords and stuff are just lugged around in a canvas sack, yet somehow people aren't getting poked by their edges and the bag isn't ripping or anything.

[rjshae]

 

Oh sure, but do you make it small and make the party do frequent trips to camp for a loot unload? Or do you make it huge? Some type of weight-based penalties would allow the player to choose how much loot they want to carry around while still making the stash relevant. With weight incentives, I could see the party entering a dungeon with a nearly empty shared Pack so that they can escape with plenty of loot at the end of the foray.

Unless I missed something, the Stash is always available to put things into. It's just that things can only be taken out of it at campsites/towns, etc.

 

The Shared Pack is the area where not-immediately-equipped items reside that can be equipped and/or used and/or shuffled about/dropped/etc. without having to travel back out of a dungeon/"dangerous" region to do so.

 

This is what has confused me regarding your post. You can travel into a dungeon with a FULL shared Pack and still escape with plenty of loot at the end of the foray. It's just that, if you find a Sword of Awesome halfway through the dungeon, the only options are "put it in the Stash where I can't access it" or "leave it lying about upon the ground." Whereas, if you had Pack space, you could actually equip the Sword of Awesome now (AND keep your current weapon).

 

Well, actually, I suppose you could always toss your immediately-equipped weapon into the Stash, then pick up and directly equip the Sword of Awesome. *shrug* Not sure if that's true or not.

 

Yes, sorry, I forgot about the stash always being available as a deposit box.

 

In terms of tuning the Shared pack size though, I think it could still be made somewhat flexible. Some players will want to play pack rats that carry every possible tool they need, so they could do so if they accept the weight penalties or bulk up the party with high Strength scores. Others can choose to travel light and mobile, but less prepared for every contingency.

[Lephys]

Yes, sorry, I forgot about the stash always being available as a deposit box.

 

In terms of tuning the Shared pack size though, I think it could still be made somewhat flexible. Some players will want to play pack rats that carry every possible tool they need, so they could do so if they accept the weight penalties or bulk up the party with high Strength scores. Others can choose to travel light and mobile, but less prepared for every contingency.

 

 

No worries. I wasn't certain I didn't miss an officially-announced change to that system. 8P

 

And I agree on the flexibility thing. Although, I'm really curious as to exactly how it will "flex," since it's shared.

 

*Makes a Snackrifice to Team Obsidian and hopes for some nice new tidbits.*

[Micamo]

Actually, I'm gonna be the contrarian here and say I like individual inventories sometimes.

 

"Let's see, should I give the healing potion to my Fighter since he's the most likely to take hits and need it, or to my Wizard since she'll need it more in case she does get hit?"

 

Of course this is only a meaningful choice if it takes actions to trade items and characters have to be adjacent to do it. If I can just have my fighter hold all the potions, then when my wizard gets hit, just pause, trade, and have the healing potion instantly materialize in her hands, then this is meaningless.

 

(You could just model it as the fighter throwing the potion to the wizard, but again this should take actions and there should be a chance of the potion missing its target.)

 

What I don't want to see though is constantly micromanaging who is carrying what when I'm just grabbing loot that I have no intention of using and just want to haul back to town to sell. Furthermore I hate it when my pack gets full and I have to abandon whatever I was doing and head back to sell my crap (or press forward ignoring all the loot). I can decide when I've had enough of dungeon crawling and want to head back to town, thank you, I don't need the reward cycle to decide that for me.

[Lephys]

@Micamo:

 

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the shared pack isn't accessible during combat. So, it's basically as you say. You don't have to hand the Axe of Axeness to your Warrior, THEN have him equip it, if you're just doling out loot. It's just in the "Here's stuff we have, and no one's gonna swat your hand if you take it from the area" area (Shared Pack). I believe they said that potions and other active-use items will reside within the "Equipment" area, that is, directly carried and/or ready-to-use directly by a specific character.

 

So, yeah, methinks it is as you wish it to be.

[cleric Nemir]

Browsing trough packs,the player's nightmare.

 

I think the idea of a Shared Inventory is very good, and it would be proportional both in size and capacity with the number of NPCs in your party.

However, I also think that it would be the right time to implement a Self Selecting Inventory. Any item you pick up will be automatically sorted into one of your sub-container. These containers should be:

0. Equipped Items: Clothing, armor, weapons, hidden weapons/ secondary weapons, as well as jewellery, and any other accessories.
1. Main Bag: Large items like weapons, armors, and devices should be placed in this. I have no problem with the grids, in fact it is the easiest way to visualize the whole capacity of your backpack. Maybe it should have 3 layers or something, and on such layer should be like 10x20 slots.
2. Pocket: It would be like a wallet or purse. Coins of all type, as well as gems, jewellery, and other small but precious things should be placed in this. The point is, that even though it has the same dimensions (grids), it would obviously smaller in game-reality. It should be on your belt of course.
3. Scroll Case: Scrolls, tomes, and any important paper should be placed into this. I imagine it somehow attached to your backpack, or on a handbag on your shoulders.
4. Potion Case: Potions, oils, and philters. I always thought that potions are as small as a nail-polish thingy so they should definitely be placed around your belt. :D

5. Key Holder: If the game uses keys than this is a must have. Aside from keys, it should also contain runestones, or any miscalleneous item. I remember how annoying it was in both BG and NWN.

 

Interesting. Multiple wearable containers or one split to categories,at least. I always neatly arranged my inventory,but that so far proved to take a LOT of time and constant checking and rearranging to keep always neat. I'm for something like this.

 

Also,I would like to express my hate towards the versions where potions and such are being limited to 10 per slot rather than 99.

[Sensuki]

We'll likely get to see what the Inventory looks like when Chris reveals the P:E Prototype/Vertical Slice at Rezzed at the end of June.

 

IIRC once upon a time the Shared Pack was 12 items per character, that has probably changed now but wouldn't be surprised if it was around similar size.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Sensuki

[Nonek]

I prefer micromanaging my equipment, but then again i'm against the endless waves of loot that have been in crpg's since virtually the get go. However this mechanic seems suited to handling all that stuff, even if I don't particularly care for the unexplained instant teleportation to the stash.

[motorizer]

I like the inventory system of the 1.13 mod for Jagged Alliance 2 a lot. Basically the equipment you can carry on you depends on the bags, pouches, vests you wear/carry. For instance you can stash ammo magazines in the pouches of your vest, carry a med-kit if you have backpack, stash your additional SMG if you have a SMG holster etc. Some similar system could be implemented perhaps in PE.

 

The equipment also has weight and if you exceed your character's carry limit, your character is slowed drastically. Some may find such a system kind of tedious and annoying, but I find it very realistic and fun, but of course I am not sure how well it can be implemented to the PE gameplay, just an idea.

 

Anyway, here is a screenshot:

 

Probably the best inventory system in a game, could certainly be good in expert mode if some find it a bit too hardcore

 

I also liked the inventory in hidden and dangerous 2, you had stuff attached to your belt, which showed on your character model, and a rifle slung over your shoulder(s) plus the option to wear a backpack if you wanted to carry more gear

 

Carried gear showing up on your character model is good, I'm not a fan of appearing to pull huge weapons out of your ass, or your bow disappearing into thin air because you equipped your sword, silent storm did it years ago, mount and blade had it  very early on when they had a team of 2 people...so it can't be that difficult.

[TrashMan]

I prefer separate inventories.

 

If a party  memebr is out cold, I shouldnt' be able to acess the stuff in his backpack.

Some may say that doing that means a chore in switching items between party memebers, but I say that is not the case. You can display the backpacks of all party members in a single screen, with the pack of a knock-out or out-of-range party memeber being grayed out.

 

You have ease of acess with logical and tactical limitations.

[Osvir]

Shared Stash, perfectly fine with that.

Shared Pack? Well, I dunno. One part of me says "Why not?". It makes coding (probably) as effective as possible (I am just guessing). You'd be able to easily switch Pack gear and Stash gear around-still guessing.

But is it fun?

I kind of like the micro-managing myself. Not to mention the personality it adds to the character. I threw all the scrolls onto Dynaheir for a reason, some of them I gave to Imoen. I took all the gems with the "Said to provide luck" in the description on my main character. Boo being in Minsc's inventory slot adds character as well. Organizing the gear between the characters, putting some specific stuff on a specific character for a specific reason (The Barbarian gets all the excess metal armor, swords, axes and maces for the shop keeper the Ranger gets the arrows, leather, wolf pelts and similar. The Mage gets the scrolls, some gems/rocks and some lore books).

The Shared Pack adds less individual character developments. Let's say I can find a Bead Necklace amulet that's pretty worthless, possible vendor trash. In a Shared Pack that Bead Necklace would go straight into the nearest shop keeper, but if there were 3-4 individualized slots (for weapons, potions, scrolls, texts, shields, items in general) I would possibly place that Bead Necklace into Forton's inventory slot just to add character. Because it does add character.

Take these for instance:

Example with Sharing:

[shared Pack]

- Bead Necklace
- Longsword

- Topaz x3

- Helmet of Steel

- Cloth
- Shield
- Grimoire of Life
- Scroll of Mutiny

- Iron Gloves

[shared Stash]
- Item #01
- Item #02
- Item #03
- Item #04
- Item #05
- Item #06
- Item #07
- Item #08
- Item #09
- Item #10

^What do I sell? What do I keep? It adds character to the group, but it wears more tactically in my mind. I.E. What do I keep and what do I throw away?

Example with Individual:

 

[individual Pack #1]
- Bead Necklace
- Cloth
- Iron Gloves

[individual Pack #2]
- Grimoire of Life
- Scroll of Mutiny

- Topaz x3

[individual Pack #3]
- Longsword
- Helmet of Steel
- Shield

 

[shared Stash]
- Item #01
- Item #02
- Item #03
- Item #04
- Item #05
- Item #06
- Item #07
- Item #08
- Item #09
- Item #10

 

Can you figure out who wears what and does anyone keep something out of roleplaying-sentimental value? It adds character, doesn't it?

Edited May 27, 2013 by Osvir

[motorizer]

I prefer separate inventories.

 

If a party  memebr is out cold, I shouldnt' be able to acess the stuff in his backpack.

Some may say that doing that means a chore in switching items between party memebers, but I say that is not the case. You can display the backpacks of all party members in a single screen, with the pack of a knock-out or out-of-range party memeber being grayed out.

 

You have ease of acess with logical and tactical limitations.

I was going to agree with this, then I noticed that the shared pack is only availiable outside of combat...

This is fine by me....given all the time in the world when not being attacked you should be able to access an unconscious companions stuff

[Nonek]

Hopefully as Osvir states this does not mean that companions and the main character cannot have keepsakes and such. Currently i'm playing through Arcanum and each companion has their alloted role and items they hold dear, for instance my elven mage keeps the Newspapers involving the IFS Zephyr and the Garringsburg robbery upon him at all times. Virgil wears the pilgrims robe found in the Panarii temple in Shrouded Hills, the notes from elder Joachim as well as a Panarii pamphlet. Magnus has Roan's study on dwarven culture, the bracelet unearthed by the Schuylers and a tin of dwarven snuff. Garfield Thelonius Remmington has a pack of Earl Grey tea on hand at all times etcetera, etcetera.

 

Seems such a simple and yet effective tool for roleplaying, rather than a shared pack full of nondescript loot, a collection of items and curios that the companions hold dear that somewhat defines them.

[Osvir]

Now imagine if Arcanum wouldn't have that sort of individual inventory slots or "imaginary individual backpacks". Would the items in question, that Nonek brings up, hold the same significance to each of the characters?

Again, this time using the reference in Nonek's post.

Individual Pack: Version 1

1- Elven Mage

* Garringsburg

* IFS Zephyr

 

2- Virgil
* Elder Joachim's Notes
* Panarii Pamphlet

* Pilgrim's Robe

 

3- Magnus
* Roan's Study on Dwarven Culture
* Schuylers Bracelet
* Tin of Dwarven Snuff

 

4- Garfield Thelonius Remmington
* Earl Grey Tea

 

Shared Pack: Version 2

* Earl Grey Tea

* Elder Joachim's Notes

* Garringsburg

* IFS Zephyr
* Panarii Pamphlet

* Pilgrim's Robe
* Roan's Study on Dwarven Culture
* Schuylers Bracelet
* Tin of Dwarven Snuff

Furthermore, I am curious about the size of the Shared Pack. Is it a set amount? (I.E. 36 slots) or is it something that "widens" depending on how many party members I have? (1 character = 6 slots, 2 characters = 12 slots etc. etc. increment of 6)

The reason to why I am asking is. Can 1 character carry 36 items in a Shared Pack, or would it be make more sense if it was an increment? (Shared Pack grows the more characters you have). Each 6 slots that you get in the Shared Pack could be "color coded" somehow. So basically you would be getting [Version 2] as seen above, but it could be individualized at the same time.

Hybrid Pack: Version 3; Concept

Slot 01: Elven Mage: Garringsburg

Slot 02: Elven Mage: IFS Zephyr
Slot 03: Elven Mage: -Unused-
Slot 04: Elven Mage: -Unused-

Slot 05: Elven Mage: -Unused-

Slot 06: Elven Mage: -Unused-

Slot 07: Virgil: Elder Joachim's Notes
Slot 08: Virgil: Panarii Pamphlet
Slot 09: Virgil: Pilgrim's Robe
Slot 10: Virgil: -Unused-
Slot 11: Virgil: -Unused-
Slot 12: Virgil: -Unused-

With 1 more character, you'd get 6 more slots etc. etc. It's really silly ideas that doesn't add much in terms of gameplay, but it does add lots in terms of roleplay imo.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Individual characters contribute space to the Pack (not the Stash, which is effectively unlimited in size).  I.e., two characters will have less Pack space than six characters.  However we wind up displaying the Pack, each character's section will be marked as "theirs" even though it's effectively a common pool of items.  The main thing we want to avoid with the Pack is forcing the player to flip between six screens.

 

BTW, you can carry overflow items without assigning them Pack slots or throwing them in the Stash, but it encumbers the entire party until you handle it.  Encumbrance inflicts combat penalties, not movement penalties, so you can move at full speed while encumbered, but you're fighting at a significant disadvantage with no real upside because you can't access the Pack in combat.

[Elerond]

That sound like system that will remove some annoying inventario searching that IE games have so much. Was it so that you could only access stash in save zones like cities and camp sites?

[J.E. Sawyer]

You can put items into the Stash anywhere and at any time (more or less), but to withdraw items from the Stash you need to be at a camp, inn, or similar location.