Demographics of these forums.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

The one thing I don't get is this view  by some, and its common, that sexism doesn't really exist or isn't relevant  on the Internet and forums

 

We have already had one female member clearly explain it is an issue and I guarantee you there thousands more who would agree with her. So why are we even asking the question "why raise the issue of sexism" when it is a problem?

 

The question we need to ask is not "is it an issue"  but rather "how do we address it". Its a no-brainer for me

 

 

Someone complaining on the internet doesn't make it representative nor guarantee that their taking offence is justified.

 

And of course there's the issue that I could tell you anything within reason and you wouldn't doubt me.  Now this is a bit of a dangerous line of thought, but in reality unless I give you information that you could independently verify, you really have no way of know who I am beside me.  I could tell you I'm a 30 year old man, or a 20 year old woman, or a 50 year old Scandinavian and you really only have my word that any of that is true.  So I think that the inherent "you are the image you create" nature of the internet makes many people take them less seriously in regards to anything "serious".

 

As a side note, this is why I've thought boards that insisted on you using your "real" name to be a bit silly.  Just because I posted that my name is Roy McCarry and that sounds like a real name doesn't make it my real name.

 

>>I'm doubtful that even the supposed goal is well defined.

 

If Lara Croft is a an example of the undesirable objectification of women, what's the alternative? Would a flat chested, slightly uglier Lara Croft really prove anything? After all, when the real world comes knocking any man may fantasize about a woman with large breasts and great curves - but is really likely to settle for something more realistic. Doesn't mean he'll love or respect the realistic option any less either. If so, what is the harm done exactly in that little fantasy?

 

And are women really against that? I suppose there are quite a number of them who'd kill to look like Lara Croft or Angelina Jolie. So what if they ooze sex appeal, most people male or female want to ooze sex appeal and to be found attractive and desirable. That's a perfectly natural thing in itself.

 

The point is that there are a lot of very flimsy conceptions driving the discussion. Its not a one way street paved with inequality and discrimination.

 

Especially in gaming where everything plays out on the level of fantasy.

 

 

The argument usually goes that while everything is playing out on the level of fantasy as you say, the fantasy is defined by the male gaze.  While there are women who want to be sexy, their definition of *why* Lara Croft is sexy might vary wildly from men, and thus when Lara is presented in ways that might support the male fantasy but not the female fantasy there is a disconnect created within the viewer.

 

i know a few fans of the character who felt the swimwear / skimpy sexy clothing poster images of Lara really deflated the things that they liked about the character being strong and independent and - yes sexy - but clearly in control of those things.  But then she's parading about like an SI model and she's not owning those aspects anymore, they're serving non-character related interests.

 

If its true that we identify with characters either because we won't to be them or because we want to be with them, it'd be very easy to take a character whose initial appearance creates a wide appeal and then through poorly thought out choices weed out male, female or all players from remaining interested in the character.

 

Yes, but there is no way to cater to everyone's fantasies, or indeed to even attempt to do so. Its naturally impossible for men to agree in what constitutes "sexy", why should it be any easier for women to define it either. The odd person might get turned off but most people don't even think so much into this. 

 

Besides videogames do not have sufficient depth by and large for clear lines to be drawn, they rely on imagination to fill the gaps. Lara Croft is so shallow a character that you can basically project whatever you want onto her.

 

I'd wager that anyone complaining of sexism in games is really complaining about their cookie cutter nature and immaturity. Every woman is a babe, every guy a space marine. That is an argument I can relate to, but that's to be expected in an industry that targets primarily teenagers and their interests, and that has no moral oversight or ethical boundaries. In this respect, its just like every other aspect of modern media, be it newspapers, tv or films.

 

Its not really about deliberate discrimination, its about selling a product to the absolute lowest common denominator so as to ensure that "everyone" buys it. 

 

And like in TV or film, even the slightly intellectual or sensitive sorts will always feel left out. If those who feel cheap playing a "babe" think I for example feel great playing some dumb **** gung-ho soldier type who can't string together a complete sentence to save his life they're sorely mistaken. Is that supposed to be my ideal? Some illiterate ass without a single meaningful thing to say? Hell, in history there are plenty of extremely educated and intelligent officers and soldiers in every army in the world. Real men, not plastic GI Joe's. Why can't I play as one of them?

 

But I don't cry discrimination!, I just stop playing. They're not catering to my tastes not because they hate me, but because I don't matter enough. Sad but true.

 

 

That's more like it, even though i would like to ponder more on what is really considered empowering, fantasy or degrading? Is there a feedback-loop that can be changed? Or can you create a new one without creating a new set of problems instead? I wish that someone on a major internet/TV/newspaper/media would write about those questions instead.

[Hiro Protagonist]

And then of course there's Hiro Protagonist's post above, with the inevitable "female gamers must be playing browser games only" which, again, reflects an attitude I find extraordinarily irritating and non productive to encouraging women to both be gamers and publicly "come out" as gamers. And everytime I see female gamer demographics discussed, I see that alienating attitude flaunted by someone, and it just doesn't help at all.

 

No, I didn't say "female gamers must be playing browser games only". Perhaps misquoting is one of the reasons why you're so irritated?

 

I was reflecting my own real life experience. I have quite a few female friends who play browser based games including FB games and don't play RPG games on the PC. Even online games like World of Tanks that I used to play has a lot of female gamers. So while it might be irritating for you, in some circles of life it's the norm. It's not alienating anyone.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Hiro Protagonist

[Guard Dog]

I just had the funniest thought reading this forum. It's like we're all sitting around this giant bar at happy hour and Bruce says "This bar is great but it needs more chicks! It's a sausage fest in here!"

 

 

Tell me you did not totally get a flashback to Harold and Kumar go to Whitecastle there!

 

There actually used to be a good bunch of regular female posters here, Dark Raven (who actually accounted for about 4-5 of them) Darque, Lady Di, Quioxitic, they were not treated any worse than anyone and each one gave as good as they got. Lady Crimson is the only longtime regular female poster left unfortunately. Out of all of them if I could bring one back it would be Di, she was sharp on topics like this.

 

I have never played an MMO and the games I like tend not to attract female players so I don't have much to offer on this and most of the women I know who do game seem to prefer MMOs. Eve seems to be the favorite based solely on my uninformed non scientific information. So if you want to meet lady games that's where they are.

[alanschu]

 

I was reflecting my own real life experience. I have quite a few female friends who play browser based games including FB games and don't play games on the PC. So while it might be irritating for you, in some circles of life it's the norm. It's not alienating anyone.

 

This is an interesting point, and lends to the problem of both parties getting frustrated.

 

It seems at first glance, DeathQuaker sees your response as "just like all the others" so I can understand her frustration.  Yet, you were describing your own experiences, and feel a need to defend yourself because you're not trying to be alienating.

 

I'll admit I didn't get the impression that you were just being anecdotal in your first statement, although you do point out the idea that "if they are not playing Obsidian games, they are not going to be here" (but with different words) which is valid.

 

 

I see similar analogues come up from different perspectives of alienation, however.  Comments seen as dismissive towards RPG players (especially the "hardcore" type) definitely lends itself to a frustrated group that may feel such comments are alienating.

 

Changing gears somewhat, I do think that there is a common perspective where people look at it and go "Well yeah, it's a good business decision" or even things like "Maybe most gamers want to play as men" (or whatever).  Yet, suggesting that making more FPS style games instead of RPGs is a good business decision would get someone burned in effigy depending on where he says it.  Imagine if I came onto this board and just said "Well, maybe most gamers just want to play FPS games?"  I don't think it'd be well received.

 

Is the analogy accurate/inaccurate?  It's just an observation that I have made in light of a lot of these discussions popping up.

[Nonek]

For me the method of how to tackle sexism is simply to not be sexist, and I don't need a game journalist preaching to me on that point, if I fail to notice my other half will tell me in no uncertain terms if i'm crossing any lines. As for game developers, they could look to making more characters like Kreia: Strong willed, able, self motivated and intelligent rather than half dressed, idle, idiots whose only form of empowerment is pointless slaughter, as we've been requesting for years. Ultimately I don't want developers to feel that they've got to work to checklists and focus groups however, that's a recipe for the "accessible" games we are currently saddled with.

[Hiro Protagonist]

Yet, you were describing your own experiences, and feel a need to defend yourself because you're not trying to be alienating.

 

I'll admit I didn't get the impression that you were just being anecdotal in your first statement, although you do point out the idea that "if they are not playing Obsidian games, they are not going to be here" (but with different words) which is valid.

 

When you've been misquoted, then you like to set the record straight. And the main point of my original post was they're not playing Obsidian games which is probably the reason why a lot of the ~50% of gamers being female aren't posting on the Obsidian forums. They're playing other games. I would have thought this was obvious.

 

My gf plays games on her ipad like Angry Birds and other games. She would never post on this forum because she doesn't play rpg games. It's easy to say around 50% of gamers are female, but what type of games are they playing? I brought up they're probably playing other games and gave an example and got shot down in flames. Also, a lot of guys play FB and browser based games. My brother plays FB games all the time and doesn't play any rpg games. You'd be surprised how popular browser based and FB games are.

 

And as Guard Dog said, there used to be a lot of female gamers who did post, especially on the old BIS forums.

[alanschu]

 

They're playing other games. I would have thought this was obvious.

 

It's not obvious.  Not when you specifically mention an alternative.  Once you mention an alternative, if it starts to fall closely with what is often interpreted as dismissive commentary, you end up obfuscating your own point.  As such, from my perspective, her interpretation seems more "obvious" to me than yours did (which required further explanation and the inclusion that you were speaking from your own experience, information that didn't even exist in your original post.

 

 

 

You'd be surprised how popular browser based and FB games are.

 

I know how popular they are.

[LadyCrimson]

Out of all of them if I could bring one back it would be Di, she was sharp on topics like this.

Di was awesome. Seems like I've seen her drop by and post once in a blue moon off and on over the years, but not lately. During Kotor2 there were more female posters here in that section as well but I wouldn't say there were "a lot" of them...at least not that I was aware of.

 

I often find it a source of endless amusement on my YouTube account, where comments always call me a "he." The assumption that I'm male is pretty strong. But I've never minded. On YT my nickname doesn't indicate otherwise, and I've found even outside of gaming, that when people don't know, they generally fall back on "he" ... they're going to use something, and it's better than "it."

 

Btw, the main reason I put "Lady" in front of my nickname when I registered for these forums was not because I care about shouting out my gender - it's because after trying several names - including my usual 'net nick at that time, which wasn't gender-indicative - and getting the "name already taken" message, I exasperatedly figured that sticking "Lady" in front of a random color would not be taken....and it wasn't. I don't generally care whether I'm recognized as female on the internet or not...altho there were a few times where I'd pick neutral names for gaming because I didn't want every male toon pretending to want to hit on my chr. Most of the time I realize they're joking, but after the 100000th time, it's not funny anymore.

[babaganoosh13]

Btw, the main reason I put "Lady" in front of my nickname when I registered for these forums was not because I care about shouting out my gender - it's because after trying several names - including my usual 'net nick at that time, which wasn't gender-indicative - and getting the "name already taken" message, I exasperatedly figured that sticking "Lady" in front of a random color would not be taken....and it wasn't. I don't generally care whether I'm recognized as female on the internet or not...altho there were a few times where I'd pick neutral names for gaming because I didn't want every male toon pretending to want to hit on my chr. Most of the time I realize they're joking, but after the 100000th time, it's not funny anymore.

I always assumed it was just a shout out to your favorite Kenny Rogers song.

 

I used to be called Ijustdroppedintoseewhatconditionmyconditionwasinbabaganoosh13, but then the internet started limiting the number of characters a username could be.

[LadyCrimson]

I always assumed it was just a shout out to your favorite Kenny Rogers song.

Not a fan of that dude. Is he still alive even?

 

I used to be called Ijustdroppedintoseewhatconditionmyconditionwasinbabaganoosh13, but then the internet started limiting the number of characters a username could be.

Ahaha....I'd like to see forums fit that into their little sidebar boxes.

[babaganoosh13]

 

I always assumed it was just a shout out to your favorite Kenny Rogers song.

Not a fan of that dude. Is he still alive even?

Kenny will never die. He knows when to hold them AND he knows when to fold them. The secret? He never folds.

[Agiel]

Should be noted that while the comments section for that post on RPS mentioned in the OT is closed, that hasn't stopped the community from commenting on post on the forum. The general opinion is that while most (if not virtually all) agree with the sentiment to at least some extent, the closing of the comments section stinks of silencing opposition and insisting that the community that has stuck with them since the very beginning is an enemy for not wholeheartedly agreeing with the post (whereas most of the commenters would simply just add to the discussion or presenting other points of view for the sake of the Socratic method).

[Hiro Protagonist]

 

They're playing other games. I would have thought this was obvious.

 

It's not obvious.  Not when you specifically mention an alternative.  Once you mention an alternative, if it starts to fall closely with what is often interpreted as dismissive commentary, you end up obfuscating your own point.  As such, from my perspective, her interpretation seems more "obvious" to me than yours did (which required further explanation and the inclusion that you were speaking from your own experience, information that didn't even exist in your original post.

 

 

 

>>>>>You'd be surprised how popular browser based and FB games are.

 

I know how popular they are.

 

 

It is obvious. And there is no obfuscation. Why aren't 50% of gamers being female not posting on the Obsidian forums? err, they're playing other games? Obvious. I gave an example of browser based and FB games and if they're playing those games, then that's where they will be. Obvious. If they're playing other games like World of Tanks which I've seen a lot of female gamers do, then they'll be at those forums which they are. Obvious.

 

You even said, "point out the idea that "if they are not playing Obsidian games, they are not going to be here" (but with different words) which is valid."

 

A totally valid point that you brought up and agreed with.

 

All you're doing is reading too much into my original comment, changing the context which was obvious and valid and now saying it was obfuscated which it isn't. How was my intent to hide, make my post confusing or make it willfully ambiguous? It isn't. Also, to have disclaimers on every post seems childish at best and isn't needed.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Hiro Protagonist

[Maria Caliban]

Where are all the female gamers on these forums?

There isn't a great deal here to appeal to a female gamer. The KotOR 2, Neverwinter Nights 2, and Fallout: New Vegas forums are all off-site.

 

That leaves the Project Eternity, Alpha Protocol, Dungeon Siege III, and 'Obsidian was once Black Isle' crowd. In general, I don't see many women who are interested in old-school RPGs or hack and slash dungeon romps. If Alpha Protocol had been more successful, you probably would have gotten an infusion of female gamers. But it wasn't.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Maria Caliban

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

There isn't a great deal here to appeal to a female gamer. The KotOR 2, Neverwinter Nights 2, and Fallout: New Vegas forums are all off-site.

 

That leaves the Project Eternity, Alpha Protocol, Dungeon Siege III, and 'Obsidian was once Black Isle' crowd. In general, I don't see many women who are interested in old-school RPGs or hack and slash dungeon romps. If Alpha Protocol had been more successful, you probably would have gotten an infusion of female gamers. But it wasn't.

A female gamer explaining why many female gamers are not present on these forums because they would likely not be as interested as their male counterparts are in the niche that these forums fill? I'm surprised that it took to page five of this thread to get that.

[BruceVC]

 

Where are all the female gamers on these forums?

There isn't a great deal here to appeal to a female gamer. The KotOR 2, Neverwinter Nights 2, and Fallout: New Vegas forums are all off-site.

 

That leaves the Project Eternity, Alpha Protocol, Dungeon Siege III, and 'Obsidian was once Black Isle' crowd. In general, I don't see many women who are interested in old-school RPGs or hack and slash dungeon romps. If Alpha Protocol had been more successful, you probably would have gotten an infusion of female gamers. But it wasn't.

 

 

Thanks, you have raised some relevant points around the question

[BruceVC]

 

Out of all of them if I could bring one back it would be Di, she was sharp on topics like this.

Di was awesome. Seems like I've seen her drop by and post once in a blue moon off and on over the years, but not lately. During Kotor2 there were more female posters here in that section as well but I wouldn't say there were "a lot" of them...at least not that I was aware of.

 

I often find it a source of endless amusement on my YouTube account, where comments always call me a "he." The assumption that I'm male is pretty strong. But I've never minded. On YT my nickname doesn't indicate otherwise, and I've found even outside of gaming, that when people don't know, they generally fall back on "he" ... they're going to use something, and it's better than "it."

 

Btw, the main reason I put "Lady" in front of my nickname when I registered for these forums was not because I care about shouting out my gender - it's because after trying several names - including my usual 'net nick at that time, which wasn't gender-indicative - and getting the "name already taken" message, I exasperatedly figured that sticking "Lady" in front of a random color would not be taken....and it wasn't. I don't generally care whether I'm recognized as female on the internet or not...altho there were a few times where I'd pick neutral names for gaming because I didn't want every male toon pretending to want to hit on my chr. Most of the time I realize they're joking, but after the 100000th time, it's not funny anymore.

 

I was waiting for you to comment but whats your opinion on the general status of Internet forums in regard to sexism and discrimination towards ladies? Whats your experience been. I believe you prefer to stay apolitical but your opinion would be appreciated

[alanschu]

<snip>

Edited April 9, 2013 by alanschu

[alanschu]

 

Should be noted that while the comments section for that post on RPS mentioned in the OT is closed, that hasn't stopped the community from commenting on post on the forum. The general opinion is that while most (if not virtually all) agree with the sentiment to at least some extent, the closing of the comments section stinks of silencing opposition and insisting that the community that has stuck with them since the very beginning is an enemy for not wholeheartedly agreeing with the post (whereas most of the commenters would simply just add to the discussion or presenting other points of view for the sake of the Socratic method).

 

Eh, I think these people are being a bit overly sensitive if they feel that John is "insisting that the community that has stuck with them since the very beginning is an enemy for not wholeheartedly agreeing with that post."  John is very specific about the types of people that he was refusing to grant a stage to.  It should be pretty easy for someone to discern whether or not he or she is one of those types of people.  If they aren't, then John isn't specifically targeting them.

 

It's similar to the when Cliff Bleszinski wrote up his article giving **** to all the people that went out and got viciously belligerent towards Anita's Kickstarter and mocked them with a "THIS is why you went and acted the way that you did?"  The incorrect assumption that many people made was that Cliff was targeting anyone that disagreed with Anita's perspective.  He wasn't doing that.  He was specifically calling out the boneheads that got up into a frenzy and starting spewing forth hate across the internet and engaged in a few fallacious smear campaigns to boot.

[Guard Dog]

 

There isn't a great deal here to appeal to a female gamer. The KotOR 2, Neverwinter Nights 2, and Fallout: New Vegas forums are all off-site.

 

That leaves the Project Eternity, Alpha Protocol, Dungeon Siege III, and 'Obsidian was once Black Isle' crowd. In general, I don't see many women who are interested in old-school RPGs or hack and slash dungeon romps. If Alpha Protocol had been more successful, you probably would have gotten an infusion of female gamers. But it wasn't.

A female gamer explaining why many female gamers are not present on these forums because they would likely not be as interested as their male counterparts are in the niche that these forums fill? I'm surprised that it took to page five of this thread to get that.

  Very shortly you are going to find out why I think this post is funny!

[Calax]

I think, due to the nature of the internet, you can't be to sexist on here.

 

Look, I'm gonna run out a parallel here so don't hit me. Gender on the internet is a bit like Religion in the physical world. Everyone knows that everyone else has an opinion on the subject and ascribes to SOMETHING relating to faith, but it's not something that's worn publicly. Therefor it usually isn't catered to in terms of choices and attitudes. When it is worn incredibly openly it's usually because somebody feels passionately about their religion and almost instantly conversation starts swerving around the topics like a drunk is driving.

 

I mean, in terms of normal conversation and news and narratives, the Bible is primarily referenced due to the fact that America has had a predominantly Judeo-Christian path. By the same token, online interactions are mostly handled as if it's just two guys talking, or that gender/sex is a non-issue.

 

Yes, half of the gamers currently active may be female, and the culture doesn't necessairly represent that fact, but the interactions between two gamers are often without any real gender subtext until gender becomes an issue.

 

I do think one thing that's harming this and the industry at large is how stupid the production companies are about how they deal with their customers. I mean there's obvious fetish-bait in things like Lolipop Chainsaw and Onichanbara. But then there's the PR for Record of Aragast War

), and THIS

 

[LadyCrimson]

I was waiting for you to comment but whats your opinion on the general status of Internet forums in regard to sexism and discrimination towards ladies? Whats your experience been. I believe you prefer to stay apolitical but your opinion would be appreciated

I don't think I'm a very good example for this sort of topic. I've always been more one of the boys then one of the girls, if that makes sense, so I'm used to a certain level of - for lack of a better term - boys night out hijinks/perspectives. From my view/lifestyle there's a lot of stuff on the internet/in gaming that is claimed as being sexist that I don't see in that light...thus, even if I'm not interested in it I'm not going to be offended or feel put upon when I encounter it. In terms of forums/'net specifically, it's been rare that I've felt truly uncomfortable or insulted by others simply because of my gender. Usually I'm aware it's meant inoffensively or as a joke, or it's cultural differences, or misplaced youthful aggression. True sexism via random social interaction on the 'net is something I've rarely experienced personally - probably because my interests typically mean I don't find/frequent places where it's likely to occur.

 

As to a (perceived) lack of females on the forum - Maria had a good point about how the "official" forums for many of Obsidian's games are often located elsewhere, but I'm not sure that's specific to females. Certainly it's a reason for why these forums are often relatively quiet, especially between games/big announcements.

 

More generally, there's also the transitory nature of the internet and people's interests, as well as why exactly any one person likes to spend time on the internet. There are long periods where I don't post much, here or elsewhere, even if I'm lurking a bit, simply because I'm not interested in most non-game topics or armchair politicking. Most of my 'net time is spent on the pursuit of specific game/entertainment discussion/help or light chit-chat/silliness and to be honest, at times this place can be too "serious" for me. Whether this is at all a male/female thing, I have no idea and don't pretend to know. I figured it's just my short attention span.

 

Obviously I love it here regardless (as well as loving Obsidian). Still, sticking to one place for years and years, like I have here, isn't something that really happens a lot (but it's nice when it does). The internet is like an immense ocean full of millions of tiny islands and I'm sadly only equipped with a tiny rowboat. Only so many places I can put my full attention towards at one time.

 

...bah that got long, and I'm not sure I really said much of anything. Ramble-mouth....

[Blarghagh]

Most of my 'net time is spent on the pursuit of specific game/entertainment discussion/help or light chit-chat/silliness and to be honest, at times this place can be too "serious" for me. Whether this is at all a male/female thing, I have no idea and don't pretend to know. I figured it's just my short attention span.

 

Doesn't seem to be a female thing because I do much the same thing.

[BruceVC]

 

I was waiting for you to comment but whats your opinion on the general status of Internet forums in regard to sexism and discrimination towards ladies? Whats your experience been. I believe you prefer to stay apolitical but your opinion would be appreciated

I don't think I'm a very good example for this sort of topic. I've always been more one of the boys then one of the girls, if that makes sense, so I'm used to a certain level of - for lack of a better term - boys night out hijinks/perspectives. From my view/lifestyle there's a lot of stuff on the internet/in gaming that is claimed as being sexist that I don't see in that light...thus, even if I'm not interested in it I'm not going to be offended or feel put upon when I encounter it. In terms of forums/'net specifically, it's been rare that I've felt truly uncomfortable or insulted by others simply because of my gender. Usually I'm aware it's meant inoffensively or as a joke, or it's cultural differences, or misplaced youthful aggression. True sexism via random social interaction on the 'net is something I've rarely experienced personally - probably because my interests typically mean I don't find/frequent places where it's likely to occur.

 

As to a (perceived) lack of females on the forum - Maria had a good point about how the "official" forums for many of Obsidian's games are often located elsewhere, but I'm not sure that's specific to females. Certainly it's a reason for why these forums are often relatively quiet, especially between games/big announcements.

 

More generally, there's also the transitory nature of the internet and people's interests, as well as why exactly any one person likes to spend time on the internet. There are long periods where I don't post much, here or elsewhere, even if I'm lurking a bit, simply because I'm not interested in most non-game topics or armchair politicking. Most of my 'net time is spent on the pursuit of specific game/entertainment discussion/help or light chit-chat/silliness and to be honest, at times this place can be too "serious" for me. Whether this is at all a male/female thing, I have no idea and don't pretend to know. I figured it's just my short attention span.

 

Obviously I love it here regardless (as well as loving Obsidian). Still, sticking to one place for years and years, like I have here, isn't something that really happens a lot (but it's nice when it does). The internet is like an immense ocean full of millions of tiny islands and I'm sadly only equipped with a tiny rowboat. Only so many places I can put my full attention towards at one time.

 

...bah that got long, and I'm not sure I really said much of anything. Ramble-mouth....

 

 

 

 

I was waiting for you to comment but whats your opinion on the general status of Internet forums in regard to sexism and discrimination towards ladies? Whats your experience been. I believe you prefer to stay apolitical but your opinion would be appreciated

I don't think I'm a very good example for this sort of topic. I've always been more one of the boys then one of the girls, if that makes sense, so I'm used to a certain level of - for lack of a better term - boys night out hijinks/perspectives. From my view/lifestyle there's a lot of stuff on the internet/in gaming that is claimed as being sexist that I don't see in that light...thus, even if I'm not interested in it I'm not going to be offended or feel put upon when I encounter it. In terms of forums/'net specifically, it's been rare that I've felt truly uncomfortable or insulted by others simply because of my gender. Usually I'm aware it's meant inoffensively or as a joke, or it's cultural differences, or misplaced youthful aggression. True sexism via random social interaction on the 'net is something I've rarely experienced personally - probably because my interests typically mean I don't find/frequent places where it's likely to occur.

 

As to a (perceived) lack of females on the forum - Maria had a good point about how the "official" forums for many of Obsidian's games are often located elsewhere, but I'm not sure that's specific to females. Certainly it's a reason for why these forums are often relatively quiet, especially between games/big announcements.

 

More generally, there's also the transitory nature of the internet and people's interests, as well as why exactly any one person likes to spend time on the internet. There are long periods where I don't post much, here or elsewhere, even if I'm lurking a bit, simply because I'm not interested in most non-game topics or armchair politicking. Most of my 'net time is spent on the pursuit of specific game/entertainment discussion/help or light chit-chat/silliness and to be honest, at times this place can be too "serious" for me. Whether this is at all a male/female thing, I have no idea and don't pretend to know. I figured it's just my short attention span.

 

Obviously I love it here regardless (as well as loving Obsidian). Still, sticking to one place for years and years, like I have here, isn't something that really happens a lot (but it's nice when it does). The internet is like an immense ocean full of millions of tiny islands and I'm sadly only equipped with a tiny rowboat. Only so many places I can put my full attention towards at one time.

 

...bah that got long, and I'm not sure I really said much of anything. Ramble-mouth....

 

Thanks for the honest  response. I appreciate it

 

I was expecting a slightly more militant and emotive post from you so maybe I should word the question differently 

 

" how do you feel about the general treatment of cats on the Internet and  forums, do you feel that people unfairly discriminate against them in comparisons to dogs" ?

 

 

[Hurlshort]

So basically we are all concluding that women have trouble committing to serious long term forum relationships.  

 

 

 

That Dead Island statue is horrific.  Who would buy that?  

Edited April 9, 2013 by Hurlshot