Torment: Tides of Numenera?

[HoonDing]

 

A tad dramatic. Just a silly tongue in cheek tweet.

 

As someone following him on Twitter since Wasteland 2's kickstarter, I find the "us vs them" is a rather frequently occurring perspective that comes up from his twitter feed.

 

I also don't consider it simply tongue in cheek.  It's a specific tweet done to rally those that (for whatever reason) are hostile towards DLC and microtransactions, and presents it in a way that such things must be mutually exclusive to a strong single player narrative.

 

We both know it'd be an epic field day if a Frank Gibeau made a silly tongue in cheek tweet that in some way could be perceived as a slight against Kickstarter or one of the projects that used it.

 

 

 

>Well, if what he says is true, then I'm all for him calling the publishers out on it.

 

What if it isn't true?

 

Well, for all Fargo's online and offline shenanigans and publisher trash talk, he doesn't really have a lot to lose. inXile is small and can always go back to making more Choplifter games to stay afloat - they never needed publishers the way Obsidian does.

 

Luckily Feargus has more business sense and class.

[Drowsy Emperor]

I wish for it to fail because its riding on the back of a 14 year old game its unrelated to, and part of a trend in both games and film of abusing people's nostalgia for the purposes of making money. This is all done by people who haven't created anything significant since then, but all of a sudden they're promising cities of gold.

 

PST's starting point wasn't imitation, in fact it was the exact opposite. That's why it worked.

 

If their idea was so good, they could have stood by it without selling it as a pseudo sequel.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Drowsy Emperor

[Lord of Lost Socks]

Good reason to change the setting, then, dontcha think?

 

Also, not even Feargus is above blaming the publishers.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Lord of Lost Socks

[Oerwinde]

 

 

 

I just had to log on and post regarding this.

 

Its beyond shameful. A bunch of dudes that worked on PST are making a new game that has absolutely nothing to do with any PST character, setting or story but they're using the name and reputation of a fourteen year old game to sell their product, because they didn't have the balls (or the faith in their project?) to sell it as something completely distinct.

 

I won't be buying it and I sincerely hope it fails.

I hope you fail.

 

I hope you turn 18 someday and realize how stupid that comment was.

No dumber than wishing professional and financial hardship on good people because they used a name you don't like for their game.

[Volourn]

"That is such a petty and narrow minded view - If you like SP RPGs, you
should be hoping this is successful, whether you hate the idea or not.
We need all of these projects to succeed if we want to see more of them."
 

You are insane. Come back to reality, please.

 

I don't need any such thing. This Torment game aside, I don't need every single SP RPG to succeed. Just the ones I want to play.

[maggotheart]

"That is such a petty and narrow minded view - If you like SP RPGs, you

should be hoping this is successful, whether you hate the idea or not.

We need all of these projects to succeed if we want to see more of them."

 

You are insane. Come back to reality, please.

 

I don't need any such thing. This Torment game aside, I don't need every single SP RPG to succeed. Just the ones I want to play.

 

We need the Kickstarters to be successful if we want to see more similar projects - I don't think thats a controversial statement, much less an insane one, Mr. Forum Dweller.

[Malcador]

We need the Kickstarters to be successful if we want to see more similar projects - I don't think thats a controversial statement, much less an insane one, Mr. Forum Dweller.

So we're duty bound to support similar Kickstarters then ?

[maggotheart]

 

We need the Kickstarters to be successful if we want to see more similar projects - I don't think thats a controversial statement, much less an insane one, Mr. Forum Dweller.

So we're duty bound to support similar Kickstarters then ?

 

It would be a good idea; I don't know where you got the word duty from but clearly if we want more Kickstarters like this we should support them.

[Malcador]

Just that sentiment always gives me the vibe of an obligation to support CRPG Kickstarters (or any genre that's fallen out over the years) regardless of one's opinion of it. If DE hates this and wishes it fails, that's fine by me.

[NerdBoner]

jeez, i think they'll break 2mil by the end of the night...that's just crazy. I wish their stretch goals were a bit more inspired though; or at least catering towards our baser nature as rpg'rs.

I wish for it to fail because its riding on the back of a 14 year old game its unrelated to, and part of a trend in both games and film of abusing people's nostalgia for the purposes of making money. This is all done by people who haven't created anything significant since then, but all of a sudden they're promising cities of gold.

 

PST's starting point wasn't imitation, in fact it was the exact opposite. That's why it worked.

 

If their idea was so good, they could have stood by it without selling it as a pseudo sequel.

you sound like some whiny fanboy who didn't get his way.

 

if the success of a game paying homage to its "spiritual predescessor" bothers you so much, maybe you need to focus that energy on something that doesn't devastate your butthole so fervently.

[Dream]

I wish for it to fail because its riding on the back of a 14 year old game its unrelated to, and part of a trend in both games and film of abusing people's nostalgia for the purposes of making money. This is all done by people who haven't created anything significant since then, but all of a sudden they're promising cities of gold.

 

PST's starting point wasn't imitation, in fact it was the exact opposite. That's why it worked.

 

If their idea was so good, they could have stood by it without selling it as a pseudo sequel.

****, man, I'm annoyed with them using the Torment name to market the game as well, but wishing for it to fail seems a bit much.

[Zoma]

I don't understand the drama.

[Tsuga C]

I don't understand the drama.

Nerd drama and angst over the "purity" of the Torment name being used to hype something that's not a Planescape game. Edited March 7, 2013 by Tsuga C

[smithereen]

I don't understand the drama.

 

Fargo's bad attitude, and using nostalgia for a cash grab. Not that I don't support this game  (I'll pledge $100), but the operation has pretty pretty classless.

[Zoraptor]

Nerd drama and angst about someone not liking something others do. I do tend to wonder if the "support all RPGs!" brigade has the same opinion of, say, DA3 and universally hope it will be successful. I also have some sympathy with Boo because my immediate reaction to EM's "Thief" after reading the GI article was actually pretty similar.

[Infinitron]

Good god, you silly people. Just be quiet and WATCH: 

Edited March 7, 2013 by Infinitron

[Lord of Lost Socks]

 

I don't understand the drama.

 

using nostalgia for a cash grab.

 

I lol'd at the hypocrisy. I gladly support these kickstarters. And fully expect half of them to fail. It'll be worth it for that one possible baldur's gate/planescape...

Edited March 7, 2013 by Lord of Lost Socks

[alanschu]

I think the basic assumption with the "Torment is a crutch" posters is that they're assuming the game won't be good; it'll spend too much time trying to show how it's just like Torment that it'll completely fail to actually stand on its own or live up to the name.

 

In other words, they expect the game to fail from the moment they use the name "Torment", and would rather the name not be sullied by a failure.

 

 

My issue is that, as a gamer, there's a greater chance that I will be more critical of the game simply because, for myself, Torment is on such a pedestal.  In the same vein that I didn't care as much for BioShock (a spiritual successor to System Shock 2), simply because despite it being a good game, in my mind it was always "This isn't as good as System Shock."

 

 

By contrast, if I were to play a new IP, and then organically conclude "This game reminds me a lot of Torment" while playing the game, it'll likely resonate with me more strongly.

 

I recognize that this view is personal, however, and may not apply to anyone else.

 

I also acknowledge that this makes the assumption that the game is the same except for the name, which may not be the case (since Torment 2 will likely receive more funding being called Torment 2)

 

 

 

I never subscribed to the "taint the legacy" theory.  For me, games stand on their own.  Master of Orion 3 sucked, I still consider Master of Orion 2 to be an awesome game.  Even if Torment: Tides of Numenera turns out to be garbage, that won't change my views of Planescape: Torment one bit.

 

I do agree with this.  I don't buy into "taint the legacy" either.  Nothing will make PST any less of a game, even if inXile were to put Atari's ET on a DVD and call it Torment 2.

Edited March 7, 2013 by alanschu

[alanschu]

 

No dumber than wishing professional and financial hardship on good people because they used a name you don't like for their game.

 

I agree.  I find it interesting because I read so much about how people actually do wish this upon me because they don't like the game I made.

 

I absolutely don't want inXile to fail.

[Zoma]

I thought people had been clamoring badly for true Torment sequel or a spiritual sequel of sort. From the direction Fargo is handling and what I had seen, it appears to be staying true to it.

 

But I can kind of understand the hate. I really hated it when Bethesda made Fallout 3. But its a different story since Fallout 3 is simply Oblivion with guns, nothing sort of a true Fallout game. 

 

However, from what I've seen, Torment is nothing like it. And I really like the direction its going.

[Lord of Lost Socks]

Fallout 3 --> Same setting, different gameplay

 

Torment promises to be ---> Different setting, similar gameplay

[alanschu]

 

I thought people had been clamoring badly for true Torment sequel or a spiritual sequel of sort. From the direction Fargo is handling and what I had seen, it appears to be staying true to it.

 

I actually do not even want Chris Avellone (nor Obsidian) to make a Torment sequel.  I'd prefer he/they try something new.  For myself, I feel that, for me, there's a greater chance of a game exceeding PST.

Part of what I loved about Torment was that it was new with limited expectation aside from the fact that "It's an Infinity Engine game so it'll play like Baldur's Gate."  Call Planescape: Torment "Baldur's Gate 3" and it's probably less well received simply because it's relation to the original is suspect, even though the game itself is unchanged.

 

I'd love games like Torment to come out (well written, deep RPGs with strong characters), though I don't think those things must be uniquely "Torment" in their existence.

[Nonek]

I'd be perfectly happy if they dropped the Torment name before the game came out, they'll have got the backing by that time and established that this is a spiritual successor, liked Dragon Age used Baldurs Gate as a namecheck. Numenera is a more than good enough name on its own, and certainly sounds very interesting as a gameworld, so if they are successful and manage to secure a sequel it would make sense to have it be another Numenera titled game, rather than Torment.

 

Still not a big thing to me, i'll gladly Paypal £35 for any new RPG that's not following the same trajectory as most of the AAA developers, they don't seem to want to cater to my tastes.

[Lord of Lost Socks]

I'd love games like Torment to come out (well written, deep RPGs with strong characters), though I don't think those things must be uniquely "Torment" in their existence.

That's kind of Fargo's idea. He's trying to create a franchise out of Torment. And the games within the franchise can be in different settings, but they are all like PS:T.

[alanschu]

 

I'd love games like Torment to come out (well written, deep RPGs with strong characters), though I don't think those things must be uniquely "Torment" in their existence.

That's kind of Fargo's idea. He's trying to create a franchise out of Torment. And the games within the franchise can be in different settings, but they are all like PS:T.

 

I understand that.  I just don't like leveraging the Torment name for a lot of personal reasons.

 

Fargo could still do the same thing without calling the game Torment.  Heck, the games don't actually need to be related in order to contain the bullet list of points he has included in the pitch.

 

The unfortunate thing about franchising is that it creates expectations.

 

M. Night's movies continually attempt to be thematically similar, but eventually they started to become predictable and less interesting because of that expectation of what is going to be in the movie.  The Sixth Sense was highly regarded, but by later movies it's more "So what's the twist going to be?"

Edited March 8, 2013 by alanschu