Sawyerism Distilled - an interview with Josh Sawyer at Iron Tower Studio

[Elerond]

I know that one should always take critical view to design ideas, but it so hard when you agree every sentence in the proposal.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Elerond

[Gfted1]

Health damage doesn't regenerate and you can't get it back with magic. You have to rest to recover Health. If your Health hits zero, you'll either enter some form of maimed/critically injured (and unconscious) state or, optionally (and all the time in Expert mode), be killed outright. If you explore far away from rest locations and keep getting your faces pounded in, you can have characters with very low Health and high Stamina. That's a dangerous circumstance to be in because even one or two blows could lead to a character being maimed or killed.

 

 

Man this sounds terrible.

[Elerond]

Health damage doesn't regenerate and you can't get it back with magic. You have to rest to recover Health. If your Health hits zero, you'll either enter some form of maimed/critically injured (and unconscious) state or, optionally (and all the time in Expert mode), be killed outright. If you explore far away from rest locations and keep getting your faces pounded in, you can have characters with very low Health and high Stamina. That's a dangerous circumstance to be in because even one or two blows could lead to a character being maimed or killed.

 

 

Man this sounds terrible.

 

Dying from couple blows when character's health is very low?

[Gfted1]

Health damage doesn't regenerate and you can't get it back with magic. You have to rest to recover Health. If your Health hits zero, you'll either enter some form of maimed/critically injured (and unconscious) state or, optionally (and all the time in Expert mode), be killed outright. If you explore far away from rest locations and keep getting your faces pounded in, you can have characters with very low Health and high Stamina. That's a dangerous circumstance to be in because even one or two blows could lead to a character being maimed or killed.

 

 

Man this sounds terrible.

 

Dying from couple blows when character's health is very low?

 

No, having no way to replenish your health without schlepping back to some defined "rest spot". No magic, no potions, just some annoying mechanic designed to reinvent the wheel and cater to Internet Tough Guys ™. Doesnt it sound weird that magic can do everything but heal? Thats a mechanic being forced.

[Azure79]

I love the response to number 9. If continuously choosing diplomatic responses led to an increase in diplomacy skills and changed how people approached you, and something similar happened with other skills, then I will be very happy. I hope the opposite can also happen and you can gain the reputation of being a boorish lout with no decency.

[Infinitron]

Health damage doesn't regenerate and you can't get it back with magic. You have to rest to recover Health. If your Health hits zero, you'll either enter some form of maimed/critically injured (and unconscious) state or, optionally (and all the time in Expert mode), be killed outright. If you explore far away from rest locations and keep getting your faces pounded in, you can have characters with very low Health and high Stamina. That's a dangerous circumstance to be in because even one or two blows could lead to a character being maimed or killed.

 

 

Man this sounds terrible.

 

Dying from couple blows when character's health is very low?

 

No, having no way to replenish your health without schlepping back to some defined "rest spot". No magic, no potions, just some annoying mechanic designed to reinvent the wheel and cater to Internet Tough Guys ™. Doesnt it sound weird that magic can do everything but heal? Thats a mechanic being forced.

 

Well, you've got regenerating stamina. That gives you a small tactical buffer to try to survive with until you get to the next rest spot. And there are plenty of "Internet Tough Guys" who are mad about that too.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Infinitron

[rjshae]

No, having no way to replenish your health without schlepping back to some defined "rest spot". No magic, no potions, just some annoying mechanic designed to reinvent the wheel and cater to Internet Tough Guys ™. Doesnt it sound weird that magic can do everything but heal? Thats a mechanic being forced.

They haven't said that magic can't heal; only that healing magic will be rare.

Edited December 6, 2012 by rjshae

[Gfted1]

Well, you've got regenerating stamina. That gives you a small tactical buffer to try to survive with until you get to the next rest spot. And there are plenty of "Internet Tough Guys" who are mad about that too.

 

Sure, but its a case of diminishing returns. With a 4:1 ratio (stamina/health) youre going to quicky reach a point where your party members are limping along with full Stamina but only a few Health points. Meaning the next blow, even at full stamina, will kill you. So what do you do? Park that NPC outside the room so there is no possibility of dying, thus effectively removing them from the game? Let half your party get wiped by the next pack of Xvart's? No, you will have to stop progressing and walk the party back to the "safe spot" to heal up. Oh, and you better not let anyone die or its game over for that NPC what with there also being no way to resurrect.

 

Guess Ill have to see how it plays but on face value it just sounds like a total pita.

[Gfted1]

No, having no way to replenish your health without schlepping back to some defined "rest spot". No magic, no potions, just some annoying mechanic designed to reinvent the wheel and cater to Internet Tough Guys ™. Doesnt it sound weird that magic can do everything but heal? Thats a mechanic being forced.

They haven't said that magic can't heal; only that healing magic will be rare.

 

Except for this?

 

Health damage doesn't regenerate and you can't get it back with magic.

[rjshae]

^^^^

Mmm, well I read it somewhere, but I'm not going to spend the morning trying to track it down. No matter.

[Sacred_Path]

It's indeed new that there should be no healing magic at all. Can of worms and all that

[Nonek]

The healing's just what i've been looking for in an rpg, life and death being beyond even magic sounds good, and a weapons blow being a thing to fear is what should have been done long ago. Hit point bloat is a horrible thing. For the play style I hope to utilise, that of scouting, sneaking and trying to only face the enemy on my own terms, this is encouraging news.

[Ieo]

No, having no way to replenish your health without schlepping back to some defined "rest spot". No magic, no potions, just some annoying mechanic designed to reinvent the wheel and cater to Internet Tough Guys ™. Doesnt it sound weird that magic can do everything but heal? Thats a mechanic being forced.

 

Maybe there won't be predefined rest spots. Maybe you can rest anywhere with varying degrees of random spawn interruption. Maybe the difficulty modes will alter that ability. Maybe crafting will have first aid for basic field service up to a limit. Maybe there will be a temporary camp mechanic that you can set down.

 

You're doing that vacuous thinking thing that so many hysterical boys did at the mere mention of cooldowns (that is, thinking about an individual mechanic concept in a vacuum, without any context to additional possibilities)...

 

In the old IE games, if you ran out of potions/healing spells, you had to rest in predefined areas to get back those healing spells in order to heal (and possibly rest again to have a full stable of spells for the next fight)--or rest outside and risk interruption. So the dual approach is actually more forgiving.

 

There are two prongs to this that when taken apart and viewed without that rational big picture can certainly appear broken: On one hand, the stamina regen makes the Internet Tough Guys squeal in rage because they feel that dumbs down combat "strategy" and makes fighting too easy. On the other hand, the health heal-only-by-rest makes the Internet Wussy Guys squeal in rage because they feel that makes combat far too punitive.

 

Heh.

 

The way I see Obsidian's approach to all of this: Big picture is viable resource management for all classes in any given combat setting.

 

We have a tiered and prop-dependent cooldown system for magic classes. This evens out the lack of categorical auto-attack and rest-spam flaws of the old systems. But that was a form of umbrella resource management over the entire party, so where does that go?

 

We have a health/stamina dual system that requires rest for full health but you can continue to plug away at adventuring at the risk of greater injury or death if you don't rest.

 

In other words. The high-level resource management appears to have been shifted from one set of classes to all classes. And I think that's totally fair. Is there room for more finesse and additional interesting mechanics and such? Absolutely. I fully expect related mechanics to appear or the ability to turn on/off things in difficulty settings. But I'm very much in favor of the big picture concepts so far.

[Elerond]

Health damage doesn't regenerate and you can't get it back with magic. You have to rest to recover Health. If your Health hits zero, you'll either enter some form of maimed/critically injured (and unconscious) state or, optionally (and all the time in Expert mode), be killed outright. If you explore far away from rest locations and keep getting your faces pounded in, you can have characters with very low Health and high Stamina. That's a dangerous circumstance to be in because even one or two blows could lead to a character being maimed or killed.

 

 

Man this sounds terrible.

 

Dying from couple blows when character's health is very low?

 

No, having no way to replenish your health without schlepping back to some defined "rest spot". No magic, no potions, just some annoying mechanic designed to reinvent the wheel and cater to Internet Tough Guys ™. Doesnt it sound weird that magic can do everything but heal? Thats a mechanic being forced.

 

I think it's better that magic can't heal , than it can but still world has people dying in diseases and wounds. So it's better that player characters need less healing, as they can take more punishment. And I like that this better damage resistance is balanced by adding another resource that works like health in IE games, so you lose it fast, but you can regenerate it fast by spells and abilities. In my opinion this system gives same tactical and strategic things than IE system, but it also don't cause inconsistencies to world and it don't force player have healer characters in his or her party to survive the game. And if system is balanced correctly it don't add or lower game's difficult level.

 

You could think that situation where you have very low health in game, but full stamina is same situation as you had in BG when you run out of healing spells and potion and have very low health, so your characters are fully ready to combat, but going in combat would be dangerous without going to rest first.

 

So essentially system is same as in IE games, but healing magic is changed to resource bar, which actually simplicates resource usage (so Internet Tough Guys™ are against this change) , but it also changes sytems to such it don't complicate lore of the world (as there is no need to explain why people don't cure plagues and etc. with magic).

Edited December 6, 2012 by Elerond

[Gfted1]

Maybe there won't be predefined rest spots. Maybe you can rest anywhere with varying degrees of random spawn interruption. Maybe the difficulty modes will alter that ability. Maybe crafting will have first aid for basic field service up to a limit. Maybe there will be a temporary camp mechanic that you can set down.

 

You're doing that vacuous thinking thing that so many hysterical boys did at the mere mention of cooldowns (that is, thinking about an individual mechanic concept in a vacuum, without any context to additional possibilities)...

 

In the old IE games, if you ran out of potions/healing spells, you had to rest in predefined areas to get back those healing spells in order to heal (and possibly rest again to have a full stable of spells for the next fight)--or rest outside and risk interruption. So the dual approach is actually more forgiving.

 

There are two prongs to this that when taken apart and viewed without that rational big picture can certainly appear broken: On one hand, the stamina regen makes the Internet Tough Guys squeal in rage because they feel that dumbs down combat "strategy" and makes fighting too easy. On the other hand, the health heal-only-by-rest makes the Internet Wussy Guys squeal in rage because they feel that makes combat far too punitive.

 

Heh.

 

The way I see Obsidian's approach to all of this: Big picture is viable resource management for all classes in any given combat setting.

 

We have a tiered and prop-dependent cooldown system for magic classes. This evens out the lack of categorical auto-attack and rest-spam flaws of the old systems. But that was a form of umbrella resource management over the entire party, so where does that go?

 

We have a health/stamina dual system that requires rest for full health but you can continue to plug away at adventuring at the risk of greater injury or death if you don't rest.

 

In other words. The high-level resource management appears to have been shifted from one set of classes to all classes. And I think that's totally fair. Is there room for more finesse and additional interesting mechanics and such? Absolutely. I fully expect related mechanics to appear or the ability to turn on/off things in difficulty settings. But I'm very much in favor of the big picture concepts so far.

 

We can discuss made up "maybe" scenarios if you like but my comments are based on what the lead developer has stated as fact:

 

1) There is no healing magic.

2) Healing can only be accomplished by resting.

3) There is no resurrection.

 

Its all right there in the OP interview. If resting can be done anywhere at will than Im fine with that.

[Gfted1]

So it's better that player characters need less healing, as they can take more punishment.

 

How can they take more punishment? Stamina and health are tied together in a fixed ratio (4:1) and health only goes down. You can be at full stamina and still die to a returning frost dart.

[Elerond]

So it's better that player characters need less healing, as they can take more punishment.

 

How can they take more punishment? Stamina and health are tied together in a fixed ratio (4:1) and health only goes down. You can be at full stamina and still die to a returning frost dart.

 

I would think that system would be such that you take only quarter of health damage what you take in BG, so for example if Gibbering does you 4 damage, in BG you would lose 4 health points, but in PE you lose 4 stamina points and only 1 health points. So in this scenario your character can take four times more damage before dying than in BG.

[Gfted1]

Ah, I see what youre saying and that makes sense. But what do you do when your health is sitting at 1-2 hp? You have no choice other than to trek back to a safe spot.

[Nonek]

Choose other front line fighters, seek to achieve the objective without combat, cast Aid like spells that temporarily buff your health before entering combat, use a defensive feat that sacifices stamina at a higher rate but protects health or maybe there are soul powers that can provide some manner of buffing?

Edited December 6, 2012 by Nonek

[Elerond]

Ah, I see what youre saying and that makes sense. But what do you do when your health is sitting at 1-2 hp? You have no choice other than to trek back to a safe spot.

 

In IE games you were in same situation if you run out of healing spells and potions. Of course in the end game you could buy so much healing potions that there was no such risk or you rest so much that you never run out of healing spells, but in start you didn't have any other choice than go rest or risk dying from one hit (what was risk for some characters even in full health).

 

So one could see that health bar in PE replace healing spells and potions as strategic resource that you can only replenish via rest or with money from shop keepers (for example doctors could work as health sellers ).

[Gfted1]

Choose other front line fighters

 

But party characters dont take damage one at a time. Assuming this plays anything like prior IE games than all party characters will be simultaneously fighting and presumably taking damage.

 

seek to achieve the objective without combat

 

Totally viable except: "Because combat will usually be more dominant than any single other means of conflict resolution..." seems to indicate non-combat resolutions will be occasional, not predominant. I think thats a given by this point but I suppose players could choose that very narrow approach if they like.

 

cast Aid like spells that temporarily buff your health before entering combat, use a defensive feat that sacifices stamina at a higher rate but protects health or maybe there are soul powers that can provide some manner of buffing?

 

These exist? Source?

[Gfted1]

In IE games you were in same situation if you run out of healing spells and potions. Of course in the end game you could buy so much healing potions that there was no such risk or you rest so much that you never run out of healing spells, but in start you didn't have any other choice than go rest or risk dying from one hit (what was risk for some characters even in full health).

 

Im in favor of resting, just not having to hump back to some "safe spot" to rest. Thats unfun for the sake of replacing a mechanic that works fine. In prior IE games you could rest (almost) anywhere you wanted.

[Nonek]

Oh I don't know what exists just thinking of possibilities, the rest anywhere predilection may be tied to difficulty possibly?

[Elerond]

In IE games you were in same situation if you run out of healing spells and potions. Of course in the end game you could buy so much healing potions that there was no such risk or you rest so much that you never run out of healing spells, but in start you didn't have any other choice than go rest or risk dying from one hit (what was risk for some characters even in full health).

 

Im in favor of resting, just not having to hump back to some "safe spot" to rest. Thats unfun for the sake of replacing a mechanic that works fine. In prior IE games you could rest (almost) anywhere you wanted.

 

I am fan of free resting also and I have impression that resting freedom in PE would be similar as in IE games and safe resting spots are only areas where there is no possibilty for random encounters.

[Sacred_Path]

The healing's just what i've been looking for in an rpg, life and death being beyond even magic sounds good, and a weapons blow being a thing to fear is what should have been done long ago. Hit point bloat is a horrible thing. For the play style I hope to utilise, that of scouting, sneaking and trying to only face the enemy on my own terms, this is encouraging news.

 

Hit point bloat WILL happen. Do you think they'll do a hardcore simulation withn no healing magic AND you die from 2-3 sword cuts?