Disconned from spell

[sociosqu]

Hi,

I just played through Baldurs Gate with a Fighter ... and Mage previously.

As a fighter I really hated that I cannot sidestep slow moving spells to avoid them, for a mage this would be devastating.

What would you think about a 'Disconnect from spell' event that might be triggered as a talent of a character or as a spell?

What I mean is, when your character is the target of a spell, it may disconnect so it is not the target anymore.

There may be various side effects:

*slow moving spells are just not following anymore, probably hitting somebody else who stands in the way.

*for fast moving spells, e.g. a fireball, you still have to sidestep. When it hits it hits.

*for immediant effects like charms, there may be a dice roll. At success the spell just might be ineffective or, much 'funnier', hit the next target in range, friend or foe alike.

 

I think I never saw such a thing in an cRPG but it might be an interesting feature to strategic battles.

What do you think?

 

BR,

Lutz

Edited November 25, 2012 by sociosqu

[teknoman2]

hmm..........NO

there is a mechanic that determines all that in DnD based games called saving throw.

[sociosqu]

I think it is different to the saving throw.

It shall not render the spell itself useless. This special talent would not protect against the effect of magic when it hits, just against being the prime target. There are many situation this makes a difference, e.g. everytime a spell affects an area. This new thing would not protect against this. The saving throw against magic or fire or else is still needed to protect against the effects of the spells.

I still think this is something really new that adds to the variety of charcter creation and strategy in combats.

You might create a quick rogue with low magic resistance. The tactics of such a character to fight against mages might be to get close to them by avoiding being hit by their magic. There can still be a factor of randomness though. The dice roll for 'disconnect from spell' might be unsuccessful.

[MReed]

No -- just no.

 

In my opinion, there is no place in a stat driven role playing game for mechanics that reward this type of micro-management of character positioning. There are three reasons for this:

 

1) AI opponents cannot take advantage of it. Partly this is because it is difficult to implement, but even if you did, the AI would be 100% successful in evading all attacks of this sort. This creates a game with highly unbalanced mechanics, which encourages the developers to make monsters far "tougher" than they would otherwise in compensation.

2) The developers have to make a decision: Balance encounters assuming that the player will be micromanaging to evade all attacks where evasion is possible or not. If the assume that players won't do this, then encounters will be trivial for players who do -- and vice versa. As a practical matter, this means that the player must use these techniques if they are possible at all, and at least one person (myself) doesn't want to.

3) With multiple avatars, this becomes absurdly tedious very quickly. You quickly develop a "see an attack animation start, pause the game, give movement orders, unpause, verify that everyone is moving out of the way, and finally order everyone to get back to attacking".

 

If you really want this sort of game, I'm sure that DA3 will satisfy you (mechanically) -- this is one of the "innovations" that was introduced in DA2, and I'm quite certain it will be included in DA3 as well.

[Lephys]

If you really want this sort of game, I'm sure that DA3 will satisfy you (mechanically) -- this is one of the "innovations" that was introduced in DA2, and I'm quite certain it will be included in DA3 as well.

 

Ahh, Dragon Age 2... Not Bioware's shiniest beacon of hope for the gamer masses, haha.

 

I'm not so sure about this "breaking spell targeting" mechanic you're suggesting, as I just don't know where it really fits in with stats, saving throws, and skills like Dodge. However, I WOULD like to see an improved Dodge mechanic that maybe actually has your characters side-step things that they're dodging, and maybe a very simplistic behavior setting to have them either focus on dodging (at the cost of delaying their next attack and whathaveyou) or not focusing on dodging (more aggressive combat against their immediate target, at the cost of fewer dodges of arrows being hurled from across the room and/or foes who are otherwise flanking).

 

I think the spells-that-never-miss and spells-that-DO-miss takes care of the spell targeting mechanic. As long as they don't ALL always hit, we're cool, I think. It's just a matter, now, of how you handle misses and hits, and what all can affect that.

[teknoman2]

i can understand not having a homing fireball but why overcomplicate the mechanics with all these things?

[Sabotin]

Actually since this is a computer game, mechanics can be complicated a bit. However I think this would be more of a micromanagement issue. It's more suitable for a game with a single protagonist.

 

On the other hand I think a part of this is still sound. There has not been much visual representation of evasion and such in statistics based RPGs. It would be nice if, speaking in dnd terms, a character that made his reflex saving throw would duck and cover or something. And in case of having evasion (where the entire damage is negated upon a successful reflex saving throw) the character could roll/move to the nearest free "square". Expanding on that you could add another tidbit of strategy by making this "evasion" unavailable if there is not enough room around. Making positioning (and terrain) more important.

 

And about the spells missing. It could be an interesting idea if *certain* spells behaved like that. In PS:T you have for example the "Ice Dagger" spell, which, upon not connecting, would travel further until it hit something, like a wall, and remain there as a mine of sorts.

[JFSOCC]

If there was a "don't know" option I'd have picked that. If you allow movement like that, you'll have to balance your game around that. doable...

[Frenzy-kun]

I find it a good idea, so the spells could have a different strategy: strong but easy to avoid or fast but unavoidable. Still, I see here a problem. Usually wizards and spellcasters has very weak stats and they are easy to get rid of if they can't cast their spells. If we give to an enduring class like the fighter a way to avoid spells, the spellcasters classes will have a huge drawback.

 

I would rather go for some trap-spells. Some spells that are placed as traps and if anyone gets close enough to the trap, the spell will be casted. Of course those spells needs some kind of pros. In fact, a class or subclass could be specialized in spellcaster traps. Something that reminds me to the spell triggers in BG2. Cast 3 spells into a trap and good luck avoiding it.

[Mikaw]

Clearly no.

It's like having 2 protections against spells ( saving throw + dodge) making them more less efficient in the game.

Would you like physical attacks to require 2 rolls? One to overcome dodge ability and a second to overcome armor?

A feat like "spell-dodge" should only add a bonus on saving throw if we're talking about a d&d based system.

[AGX-17]

Disconnect? That implies that a connection has been established. This is not exactly ideal terminology for "dodging a spell." I don't see how dodging a spell would be any different from dodging a physical projectile or melee attack.

 

Do you mean some kind of partial deflection/dodge, like initially getting engulfed by an AOE flame spell but escaping from its AOE before the spell has run its course, thus avoiding the full damage?

 

It seems like you're describing Kiting, in that case.

Edited November 28, 2012 by AGX-17

[Mikaw]

As you say, "disconnect" implies that a connection has been established between the spell and its target. If this connection doesn't exist you can actually "dodge" by walking out of the spell's path. And I agree with the fact that dodging a spell shouldn't be different from dodging a physical projectile of melee attack.

In a game like Baldur's Gate, there's no action to dodge : the attack hit or not, that's all, melee or ranged. It shouldn't be different for magic. If you you want to avoid being hit by movement, so as for melee or ranged attack, just stay out of range or have a cover.

Beside, spells which are "disconnected" already exist : any AOE is disconnected and for that reason you can try to get outside the area of effect, because you're not targeted directly.

[jivex5k]

Dodging targeted spells by moving out of the way seems more appropriate for an aRPG like Skyrim. I don't expect movement to be quick enough in an isometric cRPG to allow this, and it wouldn't seem to fit the general feel they are going for with this game.

 

I wouldn't enjoy pausing to dodge a spell every 3 or 4 seconds, would change the whole feel of the game IMHO. I'd rather have tactics like casting protection spells, or even interrupting enemy spells with spells.

[Tsuga C]

This is a lousy idea for a cRPG where character skill is supposed to trump player skill (twitch) every time. Saving throws and defensive spells should determine whether or not a member of your party is hit and take damage, not twitch-like input from the player.

[Domigorgon]

I would like the ability to 'turn off' (dismiss) a spell (one with a duration) if I (as a mage or priest) cast it. Especially if it's an area-of-effect type of spell (Stinking Cloud, Entangle, Web, etc.) that also affects my party. Say the enemies are dead, and the spell still goes on for a minute. It's only my party that is going to get stuck/damaged.

[Osvir]

I'm hoping for lots of skill shots, and skill dodging. I'm hoping I will be able to pause and put up a barrier or a "root" that blocks the passage and obstructs the incoming fireball. Hence why Magic Missile is important (because it curves around obstacles like that). Perhaps even wash the fireball spell away mid-air with a tsunami spell, or even cast a tornado spell that catches the fireball in mid-air and dependent on a dice roll it'll either continue (and go towards the enemies) or backlash and you'll have a fire tornado coming at you. I'm hoping for "Directed" spells as well (no skill shots, click on enemy and the spell will be homing in on the enemy).

 

I would also love to be able to run away from slow moving spells:

[SGray]

First concern (technical): if you wish to actually track spell projectile movement in game mechanics - you should create a new entity for each spell projectile, not simple visual decal on it's flight (completely different mechanics from currently present). Or make each projectile small moving aoe effect. Both could lead to further concerns and bugs.

 

Second concern (gameplay): Why do you think it would be right if you could dodge most of spells at all? Ever heard about dodging magic missile? First lvl spell is clearly homing one. Why not the others? Btw, there are spells in D&D that could be dodged and require ranged touch attack to land a hit. And they are clearly balanced with that in mind (Melph's acid arrow for example).

[Osvir]

First concern (technical): if you wish to actually track spell projectile movement in game mechanics - you should create a new entity for each spell projectile, not simple visual decal on it's flight (completely different mechanics from currently present). Or make each projectile small moving aoe effect. Both could lead to further concerns and bugs.

 

The color of the incantation, the symbols that appear on the Wizard as he is preparing to cast could be different depending on what type of spell, both technically and in gameplay this could be an easy solution. You'll know that the spell being cast is an offensive spell before it is being cast and will be able to prepare with it.

 

Second concern (gameplay): Why do you think it would be right if you could dodge most of spells at all? Ever heard about dodging magic missile? First lvl spell is clearly homing one. Why not the others? Btw, there are spells in D&D that could be dodged and require ranged touch attack to land a hit. And they are clearly balanced with that in mind (Melph's acid arrow for example).

 

It is self-rewarding when you manage to dodge that difficult ability. Blitzcrank in League of Legends, he has a powerful hook ability (he throws a hook forward, and if he grabs you he'll pull you too him where all his friends are standing). It is so rewarding to be able to dodge that ability, then counter-attack whilst this ability is on Cooldown. That's really the only reason why dodging is awesome.

 

Likewise there is a character called Vayne who can tumble (in League of Legends) and whilst doing so becomes "invisible" and you can't damage her, a Magic Missile being shot at her and she does the "tumble" thing right when it is needed to negate all the damage would be an awful lot of cool as well. With the Pause, however, dodging might be very easy.

 

How do you make the AI using the same dodging techniques as you can without making encounters tedious or way too challenging? Same thing with Disconnecting from the spell, how does the enemy use it?

[SGray]

The color of the incantation, the symbols that appear on the Wizard as he is preparing to cast could be different depending on what type of spell, both technically and in gameplay this could be an easy solution.

? Told not about display, but about programming implementation. It would require creating completely new entity in code to represent projectile which can be interacted with, instead of spells with start and destination point (or area) and graphical effect in between (how it's done now). Either that or trying to hack in that mechanic using existing ones (like replacing itself aoe), and there would be some concerns regarding collisions and some more I'm not aware of.

 

It is self-rewarding when you manage to dodge that difficult ability. Blitzcrank in League of Legends, he has a powerful hook ability (he throws a hook forward, and if he grabs you he'll pull you too him where all his friends are standing). It is so rewarding to be able to dodge that ability, then counter-attack whilst this ability is on Cooldown. That's really the only reason why dodging is awesome.

 

Likewise there is a character called Vayne who can tumble (in League of Legends) and whilst doing so becomes "invisible" and you can't damage her, a Magic Missile being shot at her and she does the "tumble" thing right when it is needed to negate all the damage would be an awful lot of cool as well. With the Pause, however, dodging might be very easy.

First thing: LoL is based on single hero play, and each hero has roughly 4 abilities. And there are 5 heroes at max which you are facing at half an hour time span. So it has completely different gameplay.

Next one: even in LoL there is not prevalent amount of abilities that could be really dodged. Direct hit abilities could be negated by becoming temporary invulnerable which is button mashing and bad for D&D inspired stat based game game, imo.

The last one: the game would be stat based, so dodging should rely on character stats, not player input. If player-controlled dodge ability would be implemented it would be action-rpg hybrid with dexterity as dump stat. Why ever I need it, if I could do everything manually? Stat based spell dodging = ranged touch attack.

The very last one: LoL have one of the most complex bot AI-s in such games, dedicated and attuned to small bunch of maps. But still it's pretty stupid, and deals pretty badly with positioning against unique-mechanics abilities.

[Osvir]

Ah okay, yep, I pretty much knew I misunderstood the question but went with it anyways. Thanks for explaining

 

It is self-rewarding when you manage to dodge that difficult ability. Blitzcrank in League of Legends, he has a powerful hook ability (he throws a hook forward, and if he grabs you he'll pull you too him where all his friends are standing). It is so rewarding to be able to dodge that ability, then counter-attack whilst this ability is on Cooldown. That's really the only reason why dodging is awesome.

 

Likewise there is a character called Vayne who can tumble (in League of Legends) and whilst doing so becomes "invisible" and you can't damage her, a Magic Missile being shot at her and she does the "tumble" thing right when it is needed to negate all the damage would be an awful lot of cool as well. With the Pause, however, dodging might be very easy.

First thing: LoL is based on single hero play, and each hero has roughly 4 abilities. And there are 5 heroes at max which you are facing at half an hour time span. So it has completely different gameplay.

Next one: even in LoL there is not prevalent amount of abilities that could be really dodged. Direct hit abilities could be negated by becoming temporary invulnerable which is button mashing and bad for D&D inspired stat based game game, imo.

The last one: the game would be stat based, so dodging should rely on character stats, not player input. If player-controlled dodge ability would be implemented it would be action-rpg hybrid with dexterity as dump stat. Why ever I need it, if I could do everything manually? Stat based spell dodging = ranged touch attack.

The very last one: LoL have one of the most complex bot AI-s in such games, dedicated and attuned to small bunch of maps. But still it's pretty stupid, and deals pretty badly with positioning against unique-mechanics abilities.

 

First: Wrong. It is based of 5v5 gameplay (DotA) and party setup (it is most likely inspired by the IE games) and teamwork is the most important part of it. Sure, I only have control of 1 character, but together we are one unit. Riot games have started with this "Pro-Tip" stuff during the loading screen and one of them is "Do you value individual skill above teamwork?". With the abilities I have as Janna (as an example, she is a support champion) I control whether my team mates take damage, if they are low on health I can save them, heal them and push away the enemies so on and so forth. However, I play League of Legends like it is a sport (not for entertainment only). Pro-Player

 

Second: Wrong. There are tons of skill shot abilities in League of Legends. There are 117 Champions. I do agree that it could mean getting a temporary invurnability, I'm not saying that it'll be "instant casting" and super easy to "time" exactly when you should use the ability. Perhaps it takes 1 second just to "activate" it to enter 1 frame for a millisecond so you negate the damage. The point wasn't to become invulnerable, the point is "timing". Actually being able to Skillfully dodge damage. Would you be able to do it constantly? Probably not. It would require you to stay focused in the battle. And not just "Rook to D-7". Chess is fun though.

 

Don't misunderstand League of Legends with button mashing, because it isn't, it is very tactical. It is more aggressive and more action than the IE games. The IE games are way more passive. Both of these games draw their roots from Chess. Each character in the party serves a function and you have a King and Queen.

 

What do LoL and the IE games have in common?

Dodge = Yes both of the game employ manual dodging from manual placed spells

Placement = Placement of manual spells (more modernly called: Skill Shots) or thrown potions

Positioning = Positioning is super important!!

Scouting = Setting up wards and having a fast agile ninja like character (Rogue in the IE games) to scout the jungles in LoL to check for enemies.

Focus Fire = Who do you need to focus to win? The enemy Wizard? The enemy Archer? Who do I protect that the enemy likes to focus?

Gear = Buying items and Equipment to tactically make your party better, to gain additional effects, to gain additional item specific abilities and so on and so forth

Mastery = Skill points, in the IE games this would be equivalent to Proficiency (the IE games are just more simplistic).

Teamwork = Teamwork

 

Third: There are some abilities in Baldur's Gate that requires manual dodging. A Horror spell only hits those who are within the radius, so whenever it strikes I always scatter my party members away from it. Likewise when an incoming Fireball comes at me. So this is already in the IE games, I'm talking about innovative and new ways (as well as updated ways) to handle it. It is not about LoL mechanics being applied to P:E, but BG mechanics being updated and applied to P:E.

 

Fourth: Riot games have hardly touched the AI creation and it is soo bad, it is mostly just a "Tutorial" and/or Practice Ground for testing out new builds. Facing the bots is only Ego stroking and nothing else, they suck. Unless there is some fan-made killer AI out there (I haven't looked to be honest). Actually now that I think about it, the AI in League of Legends is utter crap. I could probably win 1 against 5 bots.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Osvir

[SGray]

First: Wrong. It is based of 5v5 gameplay (DotA) and party setup (it is most likely inspired by the IE games) and teamwork is the most important part of it. Sure, I only have control of 1 character, but together we are one unit. Riot games have started with this "Pro-Tip" stuff ...

You're drifting somewhere strange. What I told about you are controlling one character (for rare ones some short-timed summons without any active abilities, as an addition) and you are focusing in controling only your hero abilities (4 at a time + ones from items) and be aware of 20 or so enemy skills from which less than 5 are dodgable by positioning (not breaking the range). All that is for half an hour of gameplay, and more so, you are familiar with all possible skills and most of behavioral patterns already. Completely different gameplay.

That's all about user interaction and attention focus. And that's why exactly such games have 4 or so abilities, and not say 10 or 15.

Btw, my younger brother is gold-ranked in LoL, so don't lecture me on it )

 

Second: Wrong. There are tons of skill shot abilities in League of Legends.

Percentage to direct aim and static aoe ones?

 

Perhaps it takes 1 second just to "activate" it to enter 1 frame for a millisecond so you negate the damage. The point wasn't to become invulnerable, the point is "timing".

Well. You said that yourself. And what is that anything other than button mashing - timing clicks to milliseconds?

 

Would you be able to do it constantly? Probably not. It would require you to stay focused in the battle. And not just "Rook to D-7".

Pretty much dislike when I had to do work simple script could do better.

 

Don't misunderstand League of Legends with button mashing, because it isn't

The game as a whole - isn't. Dodging direct click skills in half-second interval of their flight by activating tumble or golden hourglasses - is button mashing definitely. And I don't want such things to form the combat in PE.

 

Third: There are some abilities in Baldur's Gate that requires manual dodging. A Horror spell only hits those who are within the radius, so whenever it strikes I always scatter my party members away from it. Likewise when an incoming Fireball comes at me.

Both fireball and horror would hit the one was targeted. Not to cluster your party when aoe is involved is completely other thing than dodging individual bullets. Mechanically wise and gameplay-wise altogether.

 

Fourth: Riot games have hardly touched the AI creation and it is soo bad, it is mostly just a "Tutorial" and/or Practice Ground for testing out new builds ... the AI in League of Legends is utter crap.

Name one rpg-like game with better AI considering positioning and map travel.

Edited December 6, 2012 by SGray

[Osvir]

You're drifting somewhere strange. What I told about you are controlling one character (for rare ones some short-timed summons without any active abilities, as an addition) and you are focusing in controling only your hero abilities (4 at a time + ones from items) and be aware of 20 or so enemy skills from which less than 5 are dodgable by positioning (not breaking the range). All that is for half an hour of gameplay, and more so, you are familiar with all possible skills and most of behavioral patterns already. Completely different gameplay.

That's all about user interaction and attention focus. And that's why exactly such games have 4 or so abilities, and not say 10 or 15.

Btw, my younger brother is gold-ranked in LoL, so don't lecture me on it )

 

Yes, I am controlling 1 character out of 5.

 

Let's play a game of BGEE and invite 3 friends. Same bloody thing in concept (controlling 1 character out of 5). That's all I really wanted to say.

 

I am not suggesting that the pacing of the League should be implemented. Obviously it won't (what with pausing and 6 party members). It makes sense to be able to dodge spells and abilities. No, seriously, it does. Someone is raising his two handed hammer to crush me? Like hell am I going to stand there and take that. Oh snap the enemy is throwing a fireball spell or an eruption from the ground? (Brand) Am I just going to stand there and take it? No. I'll be doing my best to run away from that. Likewise, is the enemy just going to stand there and take it when I throw apocalypse on them?

 

More League parallels:

I am also focusing how I can support the team best and where I should stand and position myself so I can aid as many as possible at once. So no, I am not focusing on my champion abilities I am focusing on everyone's abilities. I press tab to be "aware" of what items my team members as well as my opponents choose, I am aware where everyone is on the map and I ping/SS for my team mates etc. etc. but that's all part of the competitive play. I am not lecturing you, I am telling you how I play. Two different things, but I s'pose it could be lecturing as well if you want to see it like that.

 

I am not saying that dodging should be pre-dominant, but that it should definitely be a part of the experience and "How can you make that better?". There are tons of instances in Baldur's Gate where I need to dodge (manually, I have to click one party member to go somewhere else or else everyone gets affected by a group spell/AoE spell).

 

It already is a part of the experience in the old games, am I misunderstanding that you want it to be removed?

 

I just want it to be better (opinion). EDIT: And more active (opinion).

 

Percentage to direct aim and static aoe ones?

 

Doesn't matter if there are direct aim/homing skills 70%-30%, even if there are 30% skill shots in LoL that's roughly 100 Abilites. Even some of the Direct Hit Spells can be used as a Skill Shot by themselves (Shields mostly). That's not even taking the Items with Activated abilities into considerations.

 

Well. You said that yourself. And what is that anything other than button mashing - timing clicks to milliseconds?

 

I explain this further down but:

 

Timing = press button at the right time in the right situation for the right moment (once).

 

Button mashing = Press, Press, Press, Press, Press, Press, Press, Press!!! God of War springs to mind.

 

Pretty much dislike when I had to do work simple script could do better.

 

Obviously we are split here. I am using my entire party (manually) without scripts. I have no input on this.

 

The game as a whole - isn't. Dodging direct click skills in half-second interval of their flight by activating tumble or golden hourglasses - is button mashing definitely. And I don't want such things to form the combat in PE.

 

*nods* I don't know, button mashing sounds "negative". It is like pressing "X, X, X, X, X" on a PS3 controller when in fact (In LoL) it is more like having the mouse pointer down the lane to escape downwards at the same time as having your finger on "W" with being ready on "E" as well as "2" for an item and "F" for Flash and "D" for Exhaust. Keeping an eye on the minimap at the same time etc. etc. yeah I think you get it but, that's just what I wanted to say:

 

Button mashing = X, X, X, X, X, X, X, X

LoL = Q, Q, W, E, R, D, F, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 as hotkeys/buttons/abilities. Might be some more.

 

Whilst I don't want a League of Legends combat to form the P:E one, I'm merely stating that there is lots to be inspired by (that LoL does very good!!). How can you take something from League of Legends and use in and tweak for P:E?

 

Both fireball and horror would hit the one was targeted. Not to cluster your party when aoe is involved is completely other thing than dodging individual bullets. Mechanically wise and gameplay-wise altogether.

 

Both Fireball and Horror are Skill Shots as well. You don't have to "Target Enemy" (click on enemy), you can "Attack-Ground" (Like Catapults in WC3 or Siege Tanks in SC2). They were skill shots, there are more similar spells like that (Bless is one too). Okay I'm not 100% about Horror but I am 100% about Fireball and Bless and other various spells that you can press "on ground" and not on the enemy. My Druid in IWD has a Tsunami/Wave spell that shoots a wave in the direction I am aiming it (regardless if I aim it on an enemy or if I press on the ground).

 

[Name one rpg-like game with better AI considering positioning and map travel.

 

Haven't really thought about it, excellent rebuttal DotA for WC3 had better AI handling no doubt about it (late DotA Wc3). The bots were actually challenging. But you are correct, can't really think of any. I personally think that Baldur's Gate has a more interesting AI, but in terms of positioning and map travel? Hm nope can't think of one. Doesn't change the fact that the AI in LoL sucks (in terms of skill level. It is a walk in the park, the hardest difficulty in Co-Op vs AI feels like Casual).

Edited December 6, 2012 by Osvir

[Karkarov]

Hi,

I just played through Baldurs Gate with a Fighter ... and Mage previously.

As a fighter I really hated that I cannot sidestep slow moving spells to avoid them, for a mage this would be devastating.

What would you think about a 'Disconnect from spell' event that might be triggered as a talent of a character or as a spell?

What I mean is, when your character is the target of a spell, it may disconnect so it is not the target anymore.

There may be various side effects:

*slow moving spells are just not following anymore, probably hitting somebody else who stands in the way.

*for fast moving spells, e.g. a fireball, you still have to sidestep. When it hits it hits.

*for immediant effects like charms, there may be a dice roll. At success the spell just might be ineffective or, much 'funnier', hit the next target in range, friend or foe alike.

 

I think I never saw such a thing in an cRPG but it might be an interesting feature to strategic battles.

What do you think?

 

BR,

Lutz

 

What a really weird way of saying this (the thread title specifically). Basically what you are trying to say is "Should people should be able to dodge spells?" I say, yes, they should. However this being a top down semi tactical affair instead of a full on action based system I think it should be based on saves and such. Why do you think Rogues can take 0 damage from a fireball in D&D third edition anyway? It is because they made their save and thus "dodged" it but rolling under, or diving around, or whatever else you want. So since table top games already allow for this stuff I don't see why we can't borrow some of those concepts.

[Arctic]

well i had never seen than with instant magic (firaball ) but yes with retarded magic an more comonly with psionics.

 

There was a feat ... that let you connect to powers ... insted of putting 10 power points on a power with minium 5 cost, you can cast 1 ... and conect to that another, the second one will automatic take effect 1 round later , but, what hapens if the target is not there ?¿ well the spell hits were it was supposed to hit, a fireball a a empy place is still a fireball .. just that it dont hit anithink ...

 

(the other point is castin a fireball were you are that will blow up later, and run when that figter comes for you , can make you to go out just in time)