Armour & weapon designs - a plea (part III).

[Karranthain]

Considering their tech is probably borrowed from Obsidian, we just might. I like the cape physics.

 

Well, I really like that character size too - allows for quite detailed armour and weapon designs. Would be nice if PE went for something along those lines. And yeah, that cape!

 

Now that you mention it...how about plume physics?

[Merlkir]

What is that. Empire stuff from Warhammer FB

 

Hehe, rather the history WH is based on.

[Gorgon]

I see Tweihanders pike formations and Halberds. I'd say right around late 15th ct. to early 16th ct. Possibly around the 30 years war where superior cannon were starting to become a dominant feature on the battlefield. They made a tabletop game out of that ?

[Merlkir]

I'm not sure what you're asking about. Yes, Warhammer FB has some of its factions' styles inspired by historical designs - the Empire and Kislev being good examples.

[Diagoras]

Warning, gigantic image dump inbound:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Karranthain]

 

 

DAT PLUMES

[Lephys]

Granted. Though you might also underestimate how the well trained coreography of thrusts and parries can fly out the window when you realize it's actually your life on the line. Lot more adrenaline filled screaming and biting and hitting and blocking with whatever part of weapon or body that happens around.

 

But actual professionals with training and experience, the kind that's capable or keeping their cool.. yeah.

Would use the proper form, would not ruin their equipment by blocking stupidly. Probably not anyway.

 

Well, you know... blocking properly 7 times out of 10 is better than blocking properly 0 times out of 10.

 

It's not a binary "always notch your sword/never notch your sword" thing. It's more that the training allows you to effectively mitigate the reduction in effectiveness of your sword's edge because you're better able to react in a more efficient, proper-form manner, in general.

 

You're absolutely right that you don't just magically ALWAYS rock because you know how to do it right.

 

DAT PLUMES

 

Even the HORSE has a plume! Hells YEAH! ^_^

Edited April 3, 2013 by Lephys

[amarok]

Yay, is it that women?

 

That character looks so awesome, i already can feel the story behind her. Also: second screenshot!

 

 

 

 

 

But lets get back to were we belong.

I so much hope for historically inspired gear.. medieval european master blackmiths designed pieces of art game developers of today really should use to draw inspiration. Because usually they can not come up with anything even remotely original themselves.

[Diagoras]

Another mega-image dump. Most of these range from about 1420-1570, with P:E being nominally set in an equivalent of the early 16th century, but if you spot anything out of place then I urge you to speak up. Lots of artillery and guns in this round, but I found some interesting pictures of badass men-at-arms to mix it up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And, for any Americans in the audience, I give you: the first mustering of the Massachusetts State Militia!

 

 

Check out the steel armor, both on the musketmen (note the forked sticks) and pikemen in the background! 

Edited April 4, 2013 by Diagoras

[Agremont]

I really like the last picture. Nice use of light and shadow. And I never thought of old American military looking like that.

[Merlkir]

Mostly work of the brilliant Igor Dzis. I really recommend googling him, he's done a lot of historical illustration in the past.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Merlkir

[Karranthain]

And here's some more plate armour designs (first two are a little bit outside the game's timeline though) :

 

 

 

[JFSOCC]

I have seen enough plate for a lifetime

[Lephys]

P:E cops:

 

"Can you ID the guy?"

 

"Nope. I'm sorry, officer, but I didn't get a good look at his plate."

 

[Shadenuat]

 

 

 

 

 

[Jukkahvi]

If we're going to have muskets.

 

Musket Spear.

*Enemy too close for a reload*

*Throw Musket Spear*

*Pick up the Musket Spear from corpse*

*See further enemies running away*

 

Seriously. I'd love to have one. Make it even look like an oldschool spear.

[Elerond]

How about musket also as melee weapon, by adding bayonet in them? Bayonets are 17th century inventation, so bit too modern for PE's time frame, but as fantasy game there could be some flexibiliby.

 

 

Most muskets were designed to be used with a bayonet, which is a triangular spike or blade designed to fit onto the end of the musket's barrel, allowing the musket to be used as a pike or spear. Bayonets in modern fighting are intended as last-ditch weapons which are only used in emergencies, but in muskets, bayonets played a much more significant role, typically accounting for roughly one third of all casualties on the battlefield.

 

Sword bayonet

[Diagoras]

<Mandatory nitpicking>

 

Shoulder-fired weapons of this era are usually referred to as arquebus, musket being reserved for bulky, deployed weapons. And bayonets of a sort did exist, but they were screw-on mace heads for your weapon - a bladed bayonet isn't going to do anything against an armored enemy. And even those weren't used much, as the butt of the weapon really works just as well - this is why the pistols end with a giant round ball.

 

</Mandatory nitpicking>

[Elerond]

<Mandatory nitpicking>

 

Shoulder-fired weapons of this era are usually referred to as arquebus, musket being reserved for bulky, deployed weapons. And bayonets of a sort did exist, but they were screw-on mace heads for your weapon - a bladed bayonet isn't going to do anything against an armored enemy. And even those weren't used much, as the butt of the weapon really works just as well - this is why the pistols end with a giant round ball.

 

</Mandatory nitpicking>

 

In 16th century there was heavier versions of arquebuses that were called muskets. Bayonet name comes from daggers from 16th century called bayonette, which may or may not be used in end of rifle, but at least was some sort of close combat weapon. Bayonets work against armored units in similar fashion as spears and it should also be remembered that most of the soldiers in 16th century battlefield didn't have full body armor, so often in fight people tried to aim those part of body that weren't protected so well than tried to penetrate enemy armor.

[Diagoras]

Yeah, musket were deployed weapons that couldn't be shoulder-fired. See below:

 

 

And I'm pretty sure bayonets are a 17th century invention, and a late one at that. Even plug bayonets. The bayonette you mentioned were not only at the absolute tail-end of the 16th century, but the consensus was that they weren't meant to be used attached to the firearm. TBH, if you're shot and somehow get into close combat with enemy pikemen, halberdiers, or zwei handers, you're kind of screwed.

[centurionofprix]

 

Here's a couple of guys using these:

Eeeee, not using very properly, I'd say. That edge on edge contact is hurting my soul.

 

 

Off topic, but since it was mentioned, I don't think there is anything wrong with that picture. The edge-to-edge thing gets exaggerated/poorly worded by the ARMA guys; there are historical manuals (admittedly not medieval, but 18th century sabre if I remember right) where one is advised to meet blows precisely with the edge, and some earlier material describes hard blocks that wouldn't work with the flat.

 

The crucial point is that the parrying in the picture is done with the half of the sword closest to the hilt, that is, where there is the most leverage against the opponent's sword. You aren't going to strike anyone with this half of the blade in any case, and it was often left unsharpened, which made the blade more durable for blocking even as the half towards the point (with which one wouldn't want to receive blows to begin with due to the poor leverage) often had a very fine edge for offense.

Edited April 8, 2013 by centurionofprix

[Tsuga C]

Yay, is it that women?

Yes, it is: Cold, Calculating "Jack".

[Karranthain]

And now we know what level of detail we can expect from arms & armour (starting from 2:18) :

 

 

It's quite significant, actually. And it looks like rapiers and scimitars (or sabres) are in.

 

And (though my eyes could've deceived me) I think that the main character's wearing a face-covering Mail Aventail?

 

Edited April 10, 2013 by Karranthain

[Jarmo]

Can't make out the helmet design, but overall the design looks like it'll be getting the coveted

 

  Armour & weapon designs - a plea - Seal of Approval.

[Elerond]

Document worth to watch, about english armours and especially full plates

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO-pX9PrzSI