Crafting mechanics: Lessons learned from prior games?

[Hormalakh]

The only game that I've had experience with crafting is Arcanum. I haven't played many of the new RPGs (lack of money, and honestly, these forums don't really have glowing reviews about them in any case) and so I'm not really sure how crafting has been implemented in newer games. I guess FO:NV is the only game that I wish to play and that crafting is involved in it.

 

I haven't really read much from the devs about crafting and enchantment. Are there any mechanics specifics that someone out there can provide? I also am interested in opening up the discussion towards crafting mechanics that you guys have enjoyed in the past and that you'd like to see implemented in this game.

 

What are some crafting elements that you've enjoyed and some that you don't think should make it into the game.

 

From what I understand with Fallout:NV, it seems a lot of the crafting is directed at ammo creation and a few weapons, "potions".

 

One of the crafting mechanics that I really enjoyed was Arcanum's crafting mechanic of both having to upgrade your technical skill in a field and also having to find schematics to help create new items. The fact that there were 8 fields of study made it impossible to become an expert in all the fields, and would only come in multiple replays of the game. I would like that to be done in PE as well. From what I understand with Fallout:NV you only have survival skills, explosive skills, and science skills that much matter. I'd like it to be a little more involved than that.

 

Baldur's Gate 2 also had a nice "Cromwell's smithy" mechanic where if you found certain otherwise useless items, cromwell the blacksmith could make some legendary items for you. I never really used any of them (most of the epic items you had to kill bosses for: e.g. Holy Avenger), but that was a good mechanic too, although very much less involved. I'm not even sure you could call it crafting.

 

Anyway, what things have you guys enjoyed in previous crafting mechanics? What would you like changed? Any interesting ideas that you think the PE team might want to explore?

[Hellfell]

Couple of thoughts on the subject:

 

- I firmly believe that allowing characters to craft anything is a bad idea and a horrible design flaw. Characters we play in RPGs are Adventurers, people who make a living from exploring the world, fighting dangerous creatures, serving as mercenaries etc. We play a combat oriented person who spends all his or her time practicing skills, spells and abilities. It's non-sensual to gain experience from slaying monsters and spend it on crafting skills. Yes it's a game, a fantasy game, but the common sense is what makes these games mature. Being a master crafter requires years of practicing, a blacksmith needs to work all the time in order to achieve the highest quality results. Adventurers don't have time for this.

 

- its nonsensical that a PC crafter would make stuff on the go. It's also wierd that any npc craftsman would allow pc crafter to work in his or her workplace. Imagine your being a blacksmith and some guy comes and says "yo, let me use your anvil". "Derp NO!" you would say.

 

Now that I explained why I see Pc crafting a bad thing, let me tell you briefly how I feel crafting should be done in general:

 

* there are several crafting professions in the game. Let's say blacksmithing, inscribing (magic scrolls), enchanting, subterfuge (poisons and traps and bombs whatever), alchemy (I hope not).

 

* there are multiple NPC craftsmen you can meet throughout the game.

 

* they have different ranks like journeyman, master etc

 

* you order something from them. Depending on the complexity of an item, you will need to provide your craftsman with a blueprint, materials and gold for work. Not all items require these. Simpler ones don't need much stuff, more powerful and unique items require a wide range of materials.

 

* you can recruit NPC craftsmen to your stronghold. After that they become your employees and are able to advance in training. EG to craft an exceptionally epic mithril sword, a master blacksmith would need a book knowledge "cutting edge art of blacksmithing", which will make him high master blacksmith, then a time "mysteries of Mithril" which will enable him for crafting Mithril items and then specific blueprint. In the end, you will get a top notch badass sword.

 

Well this is it for now

[Hormalakh]

- I firmly believe that allowing characters to craft anything is a bad idea and a horrible design flaw. Characters we play in RPGs are Adventurers, people who make a living from exploring the world, fighting dangerous creatures, serving as mercenaries etc. We play a combat oriented person who spends all his or her time practicing skills, spells and abilities. It's non-sensual to gain experience from slaying monsters and spend it on crafting skills. Yes it's a game, a fantasy game, but the common sense is what makes these games mature. Being a master crafter requires years of practicing, a blacksmith needs to work all the time in order to achieve the highest quality results. Adventurers don't have time for this.

 

- its nonsensical that a PC crafter would make stuff on the go. It's also wierd that any npc craftsman would allow pc crafter to work in his or her workplace. Imagine your being a blacksmith and some guy comes and says "yo, let me use your anvil". "Derp NO!" you would say.

 

So you don't think that players should craft at all? What is the difference between a blacksmith crafting and you just buying that armor from them?

 

I can see what you mean about non-experts being able to work in a field that requires expertise, but even being able to transform non-trivial things should be an option. For example, being able to create gunpowder if given the right equipment and schematic should be possible. You might not be able to create an epic-level weapon, but I disagree that players should be unable to create anything at all.

[Aldereth]

In terms of the end products of crafting, the most useful (and more balance) are actually those from action RPG and MMO like Diablo and WoW. But the crafting process is grindy and kind of a bore. And it really lack the sense of wonderment creating a new game object.

 

I suppose, the dev. can implement some kind of "tech" tree to mix things up but I don't know how to make it less grindy.

[Hellfell]

Yes I think players shouldn't be able to craft anything themselves. If they can, It ultimately comes down to 3 options:

 

- open crafting screen and voila!

- take neccesary equipment with you then open crafting screen (portable anvils and alchemy labs FTW)

- use somebody's equipment in town. (sorry bro I need your laboratory, step aside)

 

My opinion is that these options suck. The third one is essentialy the same as NPC crafters but without common sense.

 

simple crafting on the go: sure, a ranger can make arrows but how would he make them in a dungeon? Forbid crafting in dangerous areas and it is once again the third option.

 

Difference between buying from craftsmen and crafting through them is that craftsmen don't usually make unique powerful items. You need to acquire certain things in order to make really good stuff while generic armor and weapons are always available.

 

 

[mstark]

Just as long as there's no grinding involved. I liked BG2's limited crafting, in the shaped of bringing certain rare items to a certain smith . Crafting in BG2 was an adventure, it made all your exploration and travels just that little more rewarding. It was immersive. Blacksmithing is a lifetime trade, we'd need a blacksmith class if you'd like to forge the items yourself...

[Somna]

For AD&D Magical Item Crafting was basically another form of an adventure hook. The difference is that instead of "Go help the locals fend off the rampaging horde" for your hook, you can get something like "go to X to locate a Y, you need Z under G conditions" (if the DM is being really cruel). For later versions of DND, crafting as a whole was more of a discount option -- go buy the goods, or make it yourself for half price if you meet the prerequisites and spent the time to do it. However, in a low magic setting, crafting is often the only way to enchant items. So depending on the campaign, getting item crafting abilities on a character was possibly worth it.

[Osvir]

Recommending Berserk and Vagabond manga to everyone here.

 

* Simplistic Herbalism and Simplistic Alchemy is a travel friendly tool. Being able to make medicine and potions on the go.

* Blacksmithing wouldn't be blacksmithing but repairing (you wouldn't make your own items on an anvil).

* Collecting is an important aspect, too abundant or too moderate/rare? Mundane?

* The crafting in itself, complex and deep or a "I am a robot"-button mash?

* Schematics is a great idea, but it also encourages hoarding. Filling your inventory with worthless junk because you are missing 1 or 2 components.

* Combining minor components to create useable components (for what you are missing) to solve above issue.

* It is not Terraria or Minecraft, but within the reasons of P:E there are lots that could be implemented reasonably with the world in mind.

* Combining enemy loot with your own gear (salvage items to repair and upgrade your own items)

* Gem imbuing.

* Magical enchanting (Which should be rare) and/or Tattoos (Jedi Tattoos more Runic, Sith Tattoos more Carving/Scarification). This could be handled by an important NPC.

* Cooking/Fishing

Edited November 2, 2012 by Osvir

[Metabot]

I was just thinking about this. As far as blacksmithing goes I think it's better for the player to be able to modify equipment that they find rather than making the actual equipment.

[Gatt9]

Crafting is *really* hard to implement well in a game without a supporting loot system and ideally a Sandbox. A supporting loot system really needs components generated as rare drops, or components harvested by a skill. Predeterming drops really just make it a game of "Go through this extra step to get the item!".

 

A rare drop system can be implemented to generate say, "A Demon's Heart" which can be used in a recipe, or "An Orc's heart" which can be substituted for lesser power. This is the system most MMORPG's tend to use, because it generates economy. Dark Souls implemented a similiar system, but in a single player RPG it often just becomes grinding since there's no multiplayer economy.

 

Harvested components works, but it's subject to min-maxing. "Which skill yields the most powerful items?", and the others languish.

 

The other part of the problem, and the one that all CRPG's fall prey to (MMO and SP), is the issue of "Loot versus Craft". One of the two has to provide signficantly better items, and whichever one does, the other becomes boring.

 

Some implementations try to address that, an early Asheron's Call system made loot what you harvest, so a Granite item was a nice find and it was harvested in order to improve the power of loot generated weapons, so loot was the source and the target of crafting. Which worked reasonably well.

 

Other systems have items like the aforementioned heart target the loot item to enhance it.

 

Unfortunately, the best system isn't really implementable: AD&D's method of crafting generating loot, so they're equivalent. A CRPG is far too limited in variety of loot for such a system to thrive well, especially CRPG's that don't implement random loot tables.

 

I think we're still some number of years away from CRPG's being able to be truly effective in this area, simply because we lack good development tools and so much has to be hand generated, but I'm interested in what Obsidian comes up with.

[Grand_Commander13]

Gatt9, I think you had it right with the first half of your first sentence: crafting is really hard to implement well in a game.

 

I thought Arcanum did a pretty good job, all considered: somehow I think it really helped me think of my character as a tinker having him root around in garbage cans looking for rags to make his molotov ****tails.

 

Though New Vegas's crafting system is growing on me I still think it leaves a bit to be desired. The crafting ingredients are all pretty much useless except in one recipe and take up a lot of weight, so I'm not going to be watching out for very many of them (the ingredients for the weapon repair kit are the only ones I watch for) and I think that's what makes the system so hard to work with. If I had reliable places to scrounge for or buy these, and if I didn't need to make industrial quantities of these things to feel useful (likely an interface problem) then I could enjoy it a lot more. It took Honest Hearts to get me to do much crafting, and even then it was mostly for reloading (though I've always loved being able to cook animal meat with a high enough Survival skill) and the Sierra Madre Martini in Dead Money to really get my attention.

 

So, quick takeaways:

• Make the ingredients easy to find near where you'll be doing your crafting
  
• Failing that, since I believe finding ingredients on our travels is a design goal, make the ingredients easy to carry
  
• Pay special attention to the crafting interface so crafting small quantities feels meaningful and not like a waste
  

[Hormalakh]

So I want to know for people who played FO:NV. Did you guys not like that sort of crafting mechanism?

[Metabot]

I liked Fallout: New Vegas's crafting overall, mostly the ammunition crafting, but making chems is pretty useful.

[Hormalakh]

Similarly, in Arcanum making bullets is probably the most common item I craft, along with healing salves. The armors are also nice, but I can understand wanting a blacksmith to do that for you.

[Sensuki]

I think being able to mod some weapons and armor would be cool (something *like* KotOR 2).

 

Where you have the base item and then X amount of slots for upgrades (and in this case some enchantment slots maybe)

 

Those upgrade slots and enchantment slots make minor differences to the item.

 

I think something that borrows from ARPG style (like Titan Quest relic system or Diablo 2 rune system) would be good.

[Falkon Swiftblade]

Couple of thoughts on the subject:

 

- I firmly believe that allowing characters to craft anything is a bad idea and a horrible design flaw. Characters we play in RPGs are Adventurers, people who make a living from exploring the world, fighting dangerous creatures, serving as mercenaries etc. We play a combat oriented person who spends all his or her time practicing skills, spells and abilities. It's non-sensual to gain experience from slaying monsters and spend it on crafting skills. Yes it's a game, a fantasy game, but the common sense is what makes these games mature. Being a master crafter requires years of practicing, a blacksmith needs to work all the time in order to achieve the highest quality results. Adventurers don't have time for this.

 

- its nonsensical that a PC crafter would make stuff on the go. It's also wierd that any npc craftsman would allow pc crafter to work in his or her workplace. Imagine your being a blacksmith and some guy comes and says "yo, let me use your anvil". "Derp NO!" you would say.

 

Now that I explained why I see Pc crafting a bad thing, let me tell you briefly how I feel crafting should be done in general:

 

* there are several crafting professions in the game. Let's say blacksmithing, inscribing (magic scrolls), enchanting, subterfuge (poisons and traps and bombs whatever), alchemy (I hope not).

 

* there are multiple NPC craftsmen you can meet throughout the game.

 

* they have different ranks like journeyman, master etc

 

* you order something from them. Depending on the complexity of an item, you will need to provide your craftsman with a blueprint, materials and gold for work. Not all items require these. Simpler ones don't need much stuff, more powerful and unique items require a wide range of materials.

 

* you can recruit NPC craftsmen to your stronghold. After that they become your employees and are able to advance in training. EG to craft an exceptionally epic mithril sword, a master blacksmith would need a book knowledge "cutting edge art of blacksmithing", which will make him high master blacksmith, then a time "mysteries of Mithril" which will enable him for crafting Mithril items and then specific blueprint. In the end, you will get a top notch badass sword.

 

Well this is it for now

 

I understand what your saying here, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't also be good at something else. Your perspective makes it sound like someone who plays the piano can't do anything else well. What if that guys also an accountant or successful day trader? What if he also is a gifted singer? It's not like you're starting off as a champion, the more you work at something the better you get at it. There's only so many math books you need to go through in order to be a math wiz. Given you have a desire to learn, it doesn't take 3 years to master division for example. and even simple math can be used in many ways. Neither does it seem that unreasonable to me that over a course of an epic game that with proper resources, books, or materiels that your hero comes upon, he should be able to read the instructions and craft something great if he has some level of training or skill. Maybe it's not the very best item in game, but certainly if he has quality components it should be reasonable to assume he could craft a really nice item.

 

I used to be a survival instructor and we were very creative with using anything we came upon to make all kinds of things. I once found over 20 unique items a guy had on his person to use for fire starting materiel. I didn't learn how to do that in some school. It was just life experience that I gathered along the way. Similarly it's crazy what you can make with just eggs, milk, sugar, and flour. There is a level understanding one must have to understand fundamentals, but with a little guidance a person can accomplish anything. As a Survival instructor often times I created something to fullfil a temporary need. Shelters were a daily thing. If I was traveling 50 miles, I needed to have something I could build quickly and abandon in a hurry if being attacked by a bear or wolves for example, but if I knew I was going to be put for a few weeks or months I would continue to improve upon my design. I think a weapon smith or most crafting professions would be similar.

[GrinningReaper659]

I am, as a few others seems to be, against the implementation of player crafting. It almost always ends up trivializing powerful items and is also generally a tedious, unnecessary mess. I completely support there being blacksmiths, etc. in the game world with limited crafting potential, as in BG2 where there are parts of epic, unique magic items spread throughout the game which can be forged together for a price if all the components of an item are collected. To me, there is no sense in an adventuring party also being a party of expert craftsmen; it suggests that the skill required to create these incredibly powerful items is something which can be learned in the spare time of a party of adventurers that are (more often than not) in the process of saving the world from some impending doom.

 

Also, in the case of crafting generic (non unique) items, having random materials (types of wood, metal, etc.) scattered throughout the world that must be collected by the adventuring party also seems absurd, even if you're taking it to an npc craftsmen to put together items which are enchanted in minor ways (slightly better shields, +1 swords, etc.), you have essentially taken up a side job of collecting scrap metal to be taken in and put together by the nearest craftsmen so that he can build for you something which he should already have the materials to build; in other words, in-game jobs such as collecting wood for use in making non-unique shields should be behind the scenes, not the burden of the party. I'm sure that there are exceptions that could fit into the story, such as a specific quest to get materials for a specific merchant whose stockpile of said materials has been stolen, so he's unable to sell you anything until you help him out.

 

Just to be clear, I think there are some games in which player crafting makes perfect sense. Well, maybe not player crafting, but certainly player repairing. Good examples of this would be post-apocalyptic games where you are using technology that isn't being produced anymore, like firearms. A lone adventurer out in the wasteland would very likely need a way to repair his weapons if it came down to it, it's an aspect of survival in these games if they choose to incorporate weapon degredation. An argument could be made that they just shouldn't include it, but I do think it has its place when not overdone. I don't see this idea applying to a fantasy world as much, as most of the items produced by crafting can also be readily bought in most stores in a number of cities, it just seems superfluous to me. Those are my thoughts on the subject anyway, I'm sure however they end up handling it in PE will be acceptable at worst.

[Metabot]

Ehhh no. Repairing your own weapons and crafting your arrows or bolts makes sense in a fantasy setting as well. Crafting your potions and poisons, etc. also makes sense.

[Karranthain]

I'd be great if they took their inspiration from Arcanum's system.

[Falkon Swiftblade]

i think this topic is just another reasons why games are so great. Not everyone has the same goals. Some people don't like crafting because it feels like the easy button or a chore, because it's too complicated. I think more than anything, I appreciate that it's there, but you don't have to use the system if you don't want to, but if they're spending hundreds of thousands of $ on this system, I expect it to be well thought out. They will likely use a combination of smiths, merchants and player crafting. I know they are fans of schematics and formulas from previous games. I like those systems generally. I mentioned previously that i was a survival instructor. They could just as easily turn that into a crafting profession, because there are 8 "ingredients" found in any part of the world to survive off of. In a similar manner, i don't mind going on a scavenger hunt looking for a list of items to collect. Whether or not i'm the one crafting it, or it's the smithy depends on the context of how I'm RPing my hero, or the context of the story. If the game is very task driven and my mechanics at my disposal is magic focused maybe smithing is not a priority, but if I want to be the best smithy ever, i would like the game play mechanics to encourage that playstyle so that maybe I'm not the best or strongest hero, but i can supplement my lack of ability with being able to craft better gear for my party, or having someone in my party who can. Although, I can think of since there's 2 big city's in game, i would expect lots of merchants or places to craft at.

 

I really won't form a strong opinion on this matter until i understand what the game is about more. We lack a lot of context, and if healing is as rare as they say, having a system that promotes more damage or armor mitigation is a system I wonder how and why it's being used. In some ways I hope they have some of the mechanics from Reckoning, so you may have 5 of the same chest pieces, but they could all have different stats depending on how you built it. I just hope there's better visual cues of crafted gear with it's property's. I don't want my uber breastplate to look like the one that dropped 12 levels ago.

[JOG]

Most player-crafting systems not only sabotage the games economy (assuming it exists in the first place) by allowing you to make a quick buck by crafting and enchanting, but also practically force you to specialize some of your characters for crafting purposes, just to be able to get good equipment. The silliness becomes aparent when there are dedicated craftsmen that earn their living by crafting stuff but are novices compared to a dedicated adventurer.

 

Most adventurers find legendary swords or are rewarded with custom-made enchanted armor. They usually are too busy slaying evil princesses and wooing pretty dragons, to sit down and do some crafting. There may be exceptions, yes, the smith or enchanter with wanderlust shouldn't become the rule, though, and they shouldn't be able to carry on their craft in the mid of a dungeon while besieged by hordes of monsters.

 

If you have a dedicated smith in the party, you may visit the next city and ask the local smith if you can rent his workshop for a day: then you'd be able to craft the same items the local blacksmith would be able to make at cost price, but if an adventuring smith is better than a settled one, soon all smiths would be adventurers, just to be able to make the really good stuff.

[Hormalakh]

So would the people who don't like player-crafting, be ok with reusable equipment (ammunition, potions, repairing) being player-crafted with NPC-controlled crafting for higher-end equipment (armor, weapons, endurable equipment)? That way things that generally don't cost a lot (arrows are usually very very cheap is most games) can be created when the need arises, but game/economy-breaking crafting is left for the blacksmiths in the game.

 

I really like Arcanum's crafting system. Perhaps alongside a limited player-crafting scenario, we can find schematics throughout the game world to bring to blacksmiths for them to help us create those equipment? Some smiths won't have the proper experience to do so (only a few master smiths out in the PE universe) and so they would tell us to go find a more experienced smith/apothecary/technologist/herbologist to help us.

 

So you can make a molotov by grunging around in the trash, but that high-end 3+ sword can only be made by the best smith in Dyrwood.

 

-----

 

To solve the economy issue even further, perhaps you can make player-crafted equipment generally not-sellable. The NPCs can say something like "the craftwork on this equipment is too shoddy for me to buy." Then perhaps at very high-level, end-game scenarios, there could be a perk to increase your crafting skill to "generally-acceptable for resale." So at that point, when money is no longer an issue, you can sell the arrows that you make and the potions of restore stamina just to clear up your inventory, and a small bit of change.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Hormalakh

[Hormalakh]

I used to be a survival instructor and we were very creative with using anything we came upon to make all kinds of things. I once found over 20 unique items a guy had on his person to use for fire starting materiel. I didn't learn how to do that in some school. It was just life experience that I gathered along the way. Similarly it's crazy what you can make with just eggs, milk, sugar, and flour.

 

I really like what you said here, and I hope that they do implement a system where there is more than one way to create a single item (wood + feathers + flint -> arrow, metal + wood -> arrow) AND that they utilize the same materials for different items (your flour, egg, milk, sugar example). It would severely cut down on "junk items" that you carry around. The goal then becomes for your adventurers to learn different ways of combining varying amounts of the same items to make different things. (1 wood + 1 metal -> arrow, 1 wood + 2 metal + schematic -> shoddy axe).

 

I really like this. I think that the system utilized should maximize crafting with a minimum number of ingredients. It limits player hoarding (why would it matter if you have 60 wood pieces or 30? If you need more you go looking for it) and doesn't clutter up the inventory screen.

 

Similarly in FO:NV, there were certain locations where you could craft, like the campsite. I think utilizing this sort of idea would also be good - I know someone was mentioning that being able to craft in a dungeon doesn't make much sense (both from a gaming perspective - you want to be prepared before going into a dungeon; and a "realism" perspective)

[Metabot]

Most player-crafting systems not only sabotage the games economy (assuming it exists in the first place) by allowing you to make a quick buck by crafting and enchanting, but also practically force you to specialize some of your characters for crafting purposes, just to be able to get good equipment. The silliness becomes aparent when there are dedicated craftsmen that earn their living by crafting stuff but are novices compared to a dedicated adventurer.

 

Most adventurers find legendary swords or are rewarded with custom-made enchanted armor. They usually are too busy slaying evil princesses and wooing pretty dragons, to sit down and do some crafting. There may be exceptions, yes, the smith or enchanter with wanderlust shouldn't become the rule, though, and they shouldn't be able to carry on their craft in the mid of a dungeon while besieged by hordes of monsters.

 

If you have a dedicated smith in the party, you may visit the next city and ask the local smith if you can rent his workshop for a day: then you'd be able to craft the same items the local blacksmith would be able to make at cost price, but if an adventuring smith is better than a settled one, soon all smiths would be adventurers, just to be able to make the really good stuff.

 

Wow what a load of BS. Every single word.

[Solanum]

Most player-crafting systems not only sabotage the games economy (assuming it exists in the first place) by allowing you to make a quick buck by crafting and enchanting, but also practically force you to specialize some of your characters for crafting purposes, just to be able to get good equipment. The silliness becomes aparent when there are dedicated craftsmen that earn their living by crafting stuff but are novices compared to a dedicated adventurer.

 

Most adventurers find legendary swords or are rewarded with custom-made enchanted armor. They usually are too busy slaying evil princesses and wooing pretty dragons, to sit down and do some crafting. There may be exceptions, yes, the smith or enchanter with wanderlust shouldn't become the rule, though, and they shouldn't be able to carry on their craft in the mid of a dungeon while besieged by hordes of monsters.

 

If you have a dedicated smith in the party, you may visit the next city and ask the local smith if you can rent his workshop for a day: then you'd be able to craft the same items the local blacksmith would be able to make at cost price, but if an adventuring smith is better than a settled one, soon all smiths would be adventurers, just to be able to make the really good stuff.

 

Wow what a load of BS. Every single word.

 

I'd like to have you elaborate on that.

I for one agree with most, if not everything, he said. Of which highly similar ideas have already been brought up earlier in the thread, from what I could tell by quickly skimming through.

 

If you can make the strongest gear by yourself it for the most part makes all the professionals in the world redundant etc. If you can provide a believable explanation as to why anyone in your party would be able to outperform any professional who has years of experience in their given craft after rummaging around some dungeons, killing some goblins and picking up some materials, please enlighten me.

 

If there had to be PC crafting, I think it should be very very limited, mainly because I just don't see it feasible for your party to be capable of the same levels of crafting as professionals. I mean it could be feasible if you were already a professional before setting out on your adventure, but in most cases you would effectively learn the trade little by little as the game progresses (and as mentioned earlier by someone, you'd often use the experience gained from slaying monsters to further those skills as well). Oh and all that player crafting would have to be done, while say resting or whatever. Definitely not freely whenever wherever.

 

Since there's going to be a stronghold of some sort, I really like the idea of being able to "employ" people to practice their trade in the stronghold. Of course, assuming the stronghold would come later in the game, you would also come across professional craftsmen who you could pay to craft items for you. For some reason for the stronghold part, Crossroad keep from NWN2 is the first that comes to mind, I actually really liked that part, although it didn't offer crafting but the similar concept should still be more than viable.