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Hormalakh

Typing in riddle answers instead of choosing a dialogue option

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Occasional terrible posts are a staple of any good forum. Not liking terrible posts is liking onions only for the ketchup.

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Occasional terrible posts are a staple of any good forum. Not liking terrible posts is liking onions only for the ketchup.

:ban:

 

Now you're just fishing for likes.


My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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im_eggscellent_hats-p148899921516692032enxqz_400.jpg

you're a troll, and no, I disagree. this forum is good despite the occasional terrible post.

Remember: Argue the point, not the person. Remain polite and constructive. Friendly forums have friendly debate. There's no shame in being wrong. If you don't have something to add, don't post for the sake of it. And don't be afraid to post thoughts you are uncertain about, that's what discussion is for.
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I'm the troll? I never knew posting in a forum would be like watching an M. Night Shyamalan movie.

 

But then- who was phone!?

 

 

Also typing in riddle answers is awesome. I haven't seen that in an Obsidian game before so it might be fun. One of the best parts about Betrayal at Krondor were the riddle chests- riddles are great.

Edited by Jasede

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I personally don't enjoy riddles. I don't care what method is used because I'm going to search for the answer instantly :p

 

Or... maybe a wisdom/intellect optional roll to not break my interface with the game?

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The only problem I have with "riddles" being solved by typing in answers is that often they're solveable regardless of character intelligence. I'd think riddles would be better suited to int checks. Low int doesn't get the answer, average int gets the answer in a group of answers, high Int gets the answer by itself.

 

If you're talking game lore or passwords to be found and entered...then again it comes to it, if I have a slip of paper in the possession of the my PC, why do I as the player need to enter the password...?

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The last RPG I remember having this ability was Wizardry 8... I'm not sure if this would fit in PE though, because it wasn't used in any of the IE games.


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So, could this be an option?

 

Probably not. Thinking about it, there's probably too many ways to word a correct answer to make it worth it. Or you just restrict the riddles to something very specific, which might be better and doable I suppose.

 

Either way, I'm terrible at riddles so make multiple choice an option! Or just make more riddles actually math questions I'm good at those :geek:

Edited by Frenetic Pony

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They did it exclusively in EverQuest and because of gameplay limitations it wasnt well implemented. You usually ended up either finding the correct answers on the interwebs or from older guildies when you needed stuff.

 

It could perhaps be implemented to be good, but honestly I think it would be too much of a hassle programming wise.


"Politicians. Little tin gods on wheels". -Rudyard Kipling. A European Fallout timeline? Dont mind if I do!

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The only problem I have with "riddles" being solved by typing in answers is that often they're solveable regardless of character intelligence. I'd think riddles would be better suited to int checks. Low int doesn't get the answer, average int gets the answer in a group of answers, high Int gets the answer by itself.

 

If you're talking game lore or passwords to be found and entered...then again it comes to it, if I have a slip of paper in the possession of the my PC, why do I as the player need to enter the password...?

 

I do have that issue with intelligence not factoring in too. But then you need to give big dumb characters a way to "win" too. Especially if it's main-story driven.

 

As for the slip of paper, you still have to realize that that slip of paper has to do with that certain puzzle and maybe still have to manipulate the words on the note befoer deriving the answer.

 

"tak the first three letters of my name and add it to the last three letters of the season of the dead. -sunsarr" -> sunsarr + winter - sunter


My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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The problems with typing in answers are largely practical. Capitalisation, spelling errors, spaces, exact phrases. You can know the answer and still go wrogn while typing it in.

These things are not insurmountable, I think, but it's interesting to see how to do it.

Edited by JFSOCC

Remember: Argue the point, not the person. Remain polite and constructive. Friendly forums have friendly debate. There's no shame in being wrong. If you don't have something to add, don't post for the sake of it. And don't be afraid to post thoughts you are uncertain about, that's what discussion is for.
---
Pet threads, everyone has them. I love imagining Gods, Monsters, Factions and Weapons.

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Baldur's Gate 2 had another one similar to this: it was the human skin armor quest. The answer could be solevd from the letters that the tanner gives you but once you knew the first three or four letters, it didn't matter what the rest of the puzzle was because you could always "game" the multiple choice questions into figuring out which was the right one.

In that case it probably would be better to have the answer be a mechanical device with all letters of the alphabet, still than having it be typed.

IMO.

 

All in all, there are too much puzzle types to just say yes or no here. Think the Jehova puzzle of Indiana Jones III (where the J was a trap too). Actually stuff like that (The I/J) would be a major bummer for type in answer solutions ;).

The only problem I have with "riddles" being solved by typing in answers is that often they're solveable regardless of character intelligence. I'd think riddles would be better suited to int checks. Low int doesn't get the answer, average int gets the answer in a group of answers, high Int gets the answer by itself.

Yeah, that doesn't work so well. Let me cite KOTOR2's puzzle with the elevator on Peragus. A puzzle isn't much of a puzzle if the answer is plainly given if you have high INT as a character...

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Jasede mentioned Krondor's riddle chests where you have to scrolls a limited amount of letters to answer of the riddle. If I'm correct, the amount of possible letter for each slot was limited to 4, which solves or at least reduce the mistakes one could do by typing the answer. On top of that, they were purely optional but provided a nice distraction to the game itself, while still being consistent with the setting and gameplay.

 

Also, I think that language is a non-issue. Even when I was a young Internetless unhappy non-english speaker, I would pick up a dictionary and translate the words while playing TES : ARENA and World of Xeen.

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This whole exercise skirts around the real issue:

 

How do you design a riddle/puzzle where players are far more likely to stick around and attempt to solve it rather than instantly search the internet?

 

Hint: I suspect the "free-form type in words" model would rank high in the frustration scale and encourage the most metagaming/cheating/what-have-you. :biggrin: And keep in mind that the game example cited in OP was actually released before the World Wide Web. It's not terribly important what the few posters here insist they would never do--Obsidian has to think about the thousands of backers and future potential players of the game in the currently completely-connected (consonance!) world.

 

Here are other implementation examples from the games I expect the vast majority of PE backers to have played:

  1. Lore memory riddles -> Durlag's Tower in BG1 or Amaunator's temple in BG2 (i.e. "pay attention and read, you dope")
  2. Physical object-word puzzles -> Asylum in BG2, the room with the chest and statues
  3. Multiple choice dialogue options -> Watcher's Keep in BG2 with the imp, or the djinn in the Athkatla circus tent
  4. Physical puzzles -> DA:O bridge pressure plate puzzle
  5. Crossword-type minigame -> I've never actually seen this, but limiting word length and cross-referencing letter locations might work out

Personally, I like #1 and #2 best.

 

 

Jasede mentioned Krondor's riddle chests where you have to scrolls a limited amount of letters to answer of the riddle. If I'm correct, the amount of possible letter for each slot was limited to 4, which solves or at least reduce the mistakes one could do by typing the answer. On top of that, they were purely optional but provided a nice distraction to the game itself, while still being consistent with the setting and gameplay.

 

Also, I think that language is a non-issue. Even when I was a young Internetless unhappy non-english speaker, I would pick up a dictionary and translate the words while playing TES : ARENA and World of Xeen.

 

Limitations on both word length and available letters would certainly simplify things. As for your last comment: In other words, now that you have Internet, you wouldn't unhappily be forced to pick up a dictionary and translate. :p

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Hormalakh, it's not a bad suggestion, and reminds me of the early SSI games like Pool of Radiance and Curse of the Azure Bonds that came with a cardboard decoder wheel.

 

Perhaps P:E could include a region specific "virtual decoder wheel" ?

 

The issue with regional languages would mean that the actual answer to a puzzle would not necessarily require a literal translation of an English word. The purpose of the decoder wheel was to necessitate a process in which the player discovered a combination of symbols over time, via intelligent play, (it's called 'adventuring') that ultimately led to the wheel being used as a translation tool only, once prompted for an answer.

 

I too am not overly enthused by a system that allows a player to simply reload and try again if they get the answer wrong. Having said that, I totally understand why some players get frustrated by puzzles involving mathematics or logic where the wording of the question is not always crystal clear.

 

At least with the virtual decoder wheel example, answers to riddles could be different with each playthrough, compelling the player to discover a new combination of symbols each time.

 

Could be a can of worms to implement though, but hey, it's the 21st century and people are clever these days. :)


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Ingame puzzles are cool but straight up riddles where you have to type the answer are annoying as ****.

 

What's the answer?

 

"Cloud"

 

"Wrong"

 

*reload*

 

"Clouds"

 

"Wrong"

 

*reload*

 

"Sky"

 

"Wrong"

 

*reload*, wrong answer x100

 

"**** it, I'm looking this **** up."

 

correct answer is... "a cloud"

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It wouldn't be that hard to get it to search for the word "cloud" anywhere in the text box ignoring capitalisation, so that cloud, Cloud, clouds, a cloud or the clouds would all work. Still, it's probably too much effort for the gain needed, the best solution is probably to hide the answers behind an "I'm ready to answer" option and have a much higher penalty for failing to answer after selecting that than for admitting "I don't know".

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I loved those kinds of riddles. Actually made you really think.

WAAAAAY better than this "choose the obvious answer from the list".

 

And who the hell doesn't know english these days?


* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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Ingame puzzles are cool but straight up riddles where you have to type the answer are annoying as ****.

 

What's the answer?

 

"Cloud"

 

"Wrong"

 

*reload*

 

"Clouds"

 

"Wrong"

 

*reload*

 

"Sky"

 

"Wrong"

 

*reload*, wrong answer x100

 

"**** it, I'm looking this **** up."

 

correct answer is... "a cloud"

 

I don't recall a single riddel in any of the old games that actually required an "a" or "the" before the actual answer.

Also, singular or plurar would be obvious from the riddle.

 

EDIT:

And riddles like such were usually used to open a passage/door/chest, meaning that the player could usually try again....or he had a way around.

Edited by TrashMan

* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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I loved those kinds of riddles. Actually made you really think.

WAAAAAY better than this "choose the obvious answer from the list".

 

And who the hell doesn't know english these days?

I don't recall a single riddel in any of the old games that actually required an "a" or "the" before the actual answer.

Also, singular or plurar would be obvious from the riddle.

 

EDIT:

And riddles like such were usually used to open a passage/door/chest, meaning that the player could usually try again....or he had a way around.

 

It wasn't meant to be a direct example, but to illustrate the limitations of the system. Also while you were sitting there trying to be snarky about people not knowing English you managed to **** up spelling both plural and riddle.

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So?

I don't see how my speed typo has anything to do with anything.


* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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So?

I don't see how my speed typo has anything to do with anything.

 

Probably the fact that if someone who's espousing "everyone should know English" manages to fail at spelling things correctly then imagine playing the game as a non-native English speaker or someone who has dyslexia.

 

If my whole argument hinged on the assumption that people should be able to spell perfectly then I'd make damn sure I didn't spell things incorrectly while making said argument, but that's just me.

 

Edit: On that note, what if when Obsidian writes the riddle they **** up the spelling of the answer. Yea, QA should catch that and all, but we all know how great Obsidian is in that department.

Edited by Dream

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Edit: On that note, what if when Obsidian writes the riddle they **** up the spelling of the answer. Yea, QA should catch that and all, but we all know how great Obsidian is in that department.

 

The same thing that happens if it's a multiple-choice and they forget to include the correct answer in the reponse list, or accidentally code it wrong. QA missing a problem isn't exactly dependent upon the specifics of the problem. I'm not saying "And therefore everything you've said before was wrong." I just don't think "QA might miss it" is pertinent to how we answer riddles, specifically.


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The same thing that happens if it's a multiple-choice and they forget to include the correct answer in the reponse list, or accidentally code it wrong. QA missing a problem isn't exactly dependent upon the specifics of the problem. I'm not saying "And therefore everything you've said before was wrong." I just don't think "QA might miss it" is pertinent to how we answer riddles, specifically.

 

True, if they straight up forget to include the right answer then yea it would be a challenge, but if they just misspell it then I think it'd still be possible to solve if it was multiple choice.

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