Unofficial P.E. Relationship/Romance Thread pt. 3

[-Zin-]

In fact I think to this day, the most satisfying romance I ever felt I played through--in any video game ever, not just any Obsidian game--was Annah in Planescape Torment, which culminates in no more than a quickly cut off kiss and of course more or less ends tragically. But through the dialogue, I felt the tension there, and I could see clearly how she felt and how she struggled with her feelings, and thus it felt to me like a real story of love. The moment where she says, "He matters to me more than life," actually made me cry. It's not often that I actually feel in a game like a character truly loves my PC, and Torment is one of the very few that accomplished that.

I wonder if the relationship would still have been felt so romantic if Anna would have also looked like a rotting corpse like the nameless did?

Sure, appearance is not everything, but a romance with a zombie?! Disgusting! I hope I don't have to see something like that in P:E.

 

Agreed. That said, I enjoyed The Nightmare Before Christmas.

 

 

This is Halloween, Halloween, Halloween..

Edited November 6, 2012 by -Zin-

[Tamerlane]

In fact I think to this day, the most satisfying romance I ever felt I played through--in any video game ever, not just any Obsidian game--was Annah in Planescape Torment, which culminates in no more than a quickly cut off kiss and of course more or less ends tragically. But through the dialogue, I felt the tension there, and I could see clearly how she felt and how she struggled with her feelings, and thus it felt to me like a real story of love. The moment where she says, "He matters to me more than life," actually made me cry. It's not often that I actually feel in a game like a character truly loves my PC, and Torment is one of the very few that accomplished that.

I wonder if the relationship would still have been felt so romantic if Anna would have also looked like a rotting corpse like the nameless did?

Sure, appearance is not everything, but a romance with a zombie?! Disgusting! I hope I don't have to see something like that in P:E.

That's what Ravel was for, no?

[DeathQuaker]

In fact I think to this day, the most satisfying romance I ever felt I played through--in any video game ever, not just any Obsidian game--was Annah in Planescape Torment, which culminates in no more than a quickly cut off kiss and of course more or less ends tragically. But through the dialogue, I felt the tension there, and I could see clearly how she felt and how she struggled with her feelings, and thus it felt to me like a real story of love. The moment where she says, "He matters to me more than life," actually made me cry. It's not often that I actually feel in a game like a character truly loves my PC, and Torment is one of the very few that accomplished that.

I wonder if the relationship would still have been felt so romantic if Anna would have also looked like a rotting corpse like the nameless did?

Sure, appearance is not everything, but a romance with a zombie?! Disgusting! I hope I don't have to see something like that in P:E.

 

Having imagined both sides of the romance between Annah and TNO, including how Annah might look at the ugly and dessicated TNO, I still found the story to be compelling, because it was well-written.

 

But I nor anyone else here I don't think is suggesting all romances should be with dead or seemingly dead people. I'm really kind of puzzled how you jumped to that idea in particular. If what you wanted to say was "what if Annah was ugly," then yes, I am pretty sure I still would have enjoyed the story (I actually found her character model to be a little grotesque and inhuman in its own way, as it was quite disproportionate, though she has a lovely face).

 

I do think some kind of "zombie romance" in particular would be gross though IDK, on the other hand, I remember the ghoul couple in Fallout 3 in the Underworld hotel were kind of sweet. At any rate, I don't see anyone clamoring for something of that nature.

Edited November 6, 2012 by DeathQuaker

[ArkhanTheBlack]

But I nor anyone else here I don't think is suggesting all romances should be with dead or seemingly dead people. I'm really kind of puzzled how you jumped to that idea in particular. If what you wanted to say was "what if Annah was ugly," then yes, I am pretty sure I still would have enjoyed the story (I actually found her character model to be a little grotesque and inhuman in its own way, as it was quite disproportionate, though she has a lovely face).

The nameless one is more or less a zombie, since he looks like one and is pretty much undead. The main difference is that he's not mindless.

If the game defines the protagonist as such, it should face the consequences. And that means that he can't be prince charming and flirting around like Gerald in the Witcher.

There's definitely a deep friendship possible, but a romance requires some kind of sexual attraction.

And I think the sexual attraction of a person that looks like a zombie is so low that the 'partner' must be pretty sick in the mind to get attracted to someone like that.

At least for an (almost) normal girl. Well the Succubus might be turned on by something like that. But I'm not sure If I would attracted to a girl that gets off from having hot nights with zombies.

I think the dialog was just written to please the player. But it's actually pretty bad roleplaying in my opinion. They should have chosen a vampire and not a zombie if they wanted romances.

 

I remember the ghoul couple in Fallout 3 in the Underworld hotel were kind of sweet.

Nothing against that. It's a kind of harmony. Both are the same. Like two horses doing it or two humans doing is natural, but horse + human is ughhh...

Edited November 6, 2012 by ArkhanTheBlack

[Renrik]

Because we totally need more vampire romances

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Because we totally need more vampire romances

Enlighten me, which western RPG (Japanese Eroges might be a different story...) offers a vampire romance, since unfortunately I don't know even one?

Vampire Bloodlines is the only RPG I know that really offered some serious vampire roleplaying, but it didn't have a real romance.

Not sure about the first part though since I never played it.

And are human romances in RPG's considered 'exceptional' nowadays?! Even human-elve relationships are more autodated than vampire ones.

 

In movies and books it's a different story though, but human-human relationsships are still the most 'generic' relationships by a distance.

Does that make them bad? No, I don't think so.

[Death Machine Miyagi]

Enlighten me, which western RPG (Japanese Eroges might be a different story...) offers a vampire romance, since unfortunately I don't know even one?

 

The non-video game world has pretty much forever turned 'vampire romance' into a grotesque thing, scarring to mind and soul alike.

 

Well...with the exception of the occasional gem like 'Let the Right One In', but that only worked precisely because it had an extremely sinister subtext to it.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Death Machine Miyagi

[Jymm]

I'll second Mr. DeathQuaker that its annoying when games superficially substitute romance for sex in their parlance. I'm fine with either but call a spade a spade. I was actually kind of disappointed that in DA2 Isabella would actually eventually fall for your PC. I thought it was cooler when she was just totally an out-for-fun **** who wasn't ashamed of it. But nooo, they couldn't just leave it at that. Because the player is just so unbelievably awesome that they can win over even her. Sigh.

 

Jack's romance plot in ME2 is somewhat improved from what I understand because you can _either_ bang her like an animal _or_ you can wear down her tough shell and win her over. That's more like it.

[Amentep]

And anyone mentioning how not having romances "is, like, breaking my *immersion* man" well all I can say is feh.

 

Sappy romances kill my immersion because I'm playing a fantasy CRPG, not reading Twilight. FFS.

 

Every time someone says something breaks their immersion in a game it breaks my immersion in real life.

 

I wonder if the relationship would still have been felt so romantic if Anna would have also looked like a rotting corpse like the nameless did?

Sure, appearance is not everything, but a romance with a zombie?! Disgusting! I hope I don't have to see something like that in P:E.

 

heheh, the world would have been different with an Acaste romance in PST...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

And anyone mentioning how not having romances "is, like, breaking my *immersion* man" well all I can say is feh.

 

Sappy romances kill my immersion because I'm playing a fantasy CRPG, not reading Twilight. FFS.

 

Every time someone says something breaks their immersion in a game it breaks my immersion in real life.

 

 

I don't think that there is anything I hate more than the immersion argument. It has become more of a buzzword than a legitimate argument.

[jezz555]

human-human relationsships are still the most 'generic' relationships by a distance.

 

well...yeah. I mean isn't this kind of a given?

 

Personally I'd rather them avoid statistics when designing NPC-PC character interactions. That's the line of thinking that gives you a "romance" not because it makes sense for the character/story/game but because it fits a percentage point or gives you 2 "evil" characters, 2 "neutral" characters and 2 "good" characters so everyone can be represented equally.

 

I think you've got the right idea here, IMO what killed the bioware romance, and morality systems was the fact that they assigned bars to everything. It just made them feel like minigames and took away any emotional involvement. If you ask me romance and morality should just be handled through specific dialogue options, so it feels more like a hidden easter egg or I guess a puzzle, as opposed to a minigame.

Edited November 7, 2012 by jezz555

[nikolokolus]

If they don't put bars in how will I know if I'm winning the relationship?

[Dawn_]

All, in all i don't object to romance in PE. But Like Montecarlo said, Sappy romance kill my immersion to the game.

 

Which is why i would rather having a subtle approach of romance in this game like Jaheira/Viconia were. The introduction of a romance in PE and on the expansion/PE2. The finalization of the actual romance.

 

First, it will give the chance to those like me who don't want romance in their game do not just do it without having the impression to miss a part of the game, secondly people who want romance will have the chance to have it (and we will endure it in the expansion).

 

Because i did every romance of DA:O not because i am a fan of romance but because i like finishing a game in its whole aspect especially when i like the game.

Plus why only have a romance that just fit with words. Why can't it be that just by fighting side by side one day one of the character can just tell you"thanks for always protecting me" while blushing.

 

Soft_romance and deductive romance when you have actually to get through words to understand the complexity of others feelings are more worth than empty words.

The romance is even more tastier when it is less obvious and evolve deep and long development in relation. Love for me in PE should be more like trust.

 

When you trust someone by your side to the point of letting him/her shielding you isn't it beautiful enough to not add words ? Or do we need sex, obvious romance, and sappy one?

Edited November 7, 2012 by Dawn_

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

If they don't put bars in how will I know if I'm winning the relationship?

 

If at the end of your playthrough, you are satisfied with the character development for the NPC and the options given the PC.

[jezz555]

All, in all i don't object to romance in PE. But Like Montecarlo said, Sappy romance kill my immersion to the game.

 

Which is why i would rather having a subtle approach of romance in this game like Jaheira/Viconia were. The introduction of a romance in PE and on the expansion/PE2. The finalization of the actual romance.

 

First, it will give the chance to those like me who don't want romance in their game do not just do it without having the impression to miss a part of the game, secondly people who want romance will have the chance to have it (and we will endure it in the expansion).

 

Because i did every romance of DA:O not because i am a fan of romance but because i like finishing a game in its whole aspect especially when i like the game.

Plus why only have a romance that just fit with words. Why can't it be that just by fighting side by side one day one of the character can just tell you"thanks for always protecting me" while blushing.

 

Soft_romance and deductive romance when you have actually to get through words to understand the complexity of others feelings are more worth than empty words.

The romance is even more tastier when it is less obvious and evolve deep and long development in relation. Love for me in PE should be more like trust.

 

When you trust someone by your side to the point of letting him/her shielding you isn't it beautiful enough to not add words ? Or do we need sex, obvious romance, and sappy one?

 

I don't mean to make any assumptions about your personal background, I am well acquainted with what happens when you assume, so please don't take offense at this. But this whole post sort of smacks of the kind of person who doesn't have a lot of real life experience with romance. As a man, It isn't really enough for me to just have a platonic relationship with a girl I like, I don't know any guy for whom that would be the case. Not that I wouldn't help a girl out just because, but more than likely if I like a girl, there is an ulterior motive. It's a little naive to think that romances are all about blushing and stuff, generally they are pretty physical. This post would have seemed perfectly reasonable to me in my early teens, because I used to watch a lot of romantic comedies/drama's and didn't really have any experience with the opposite sex but It doesn't really hold up to experience. And once again don't take that personally, I don't claim to know your life.

[nikolokolus]

If they don't put bars in how will I know if I'm winning the relationship?

 

If at the end of your playthrough, you are satisfied with the character development for the NPC and the options given the PC.

 

That doesn't sound right. I need a meter to tell me if I'm winning at love or not. Perhaps the devs could use Leisure Suit Larry for inspiration?

[Orogun01]

If they don't put bars in how will I know if I'm winning the relationship?

 

If at the end of your playthrough, you are satisfied with the character development for the NPC and the options given the PC.

 

That doesn't sound right. I need a meter to tell me if I'm winning at love or not. Perhaps the devs could use Leisure Suit Larry for inspiration?

Just out of curiosity, how do you know when people like you in RL without a meter?

[Tamerlane]

If they don't put bars in how will I know if I'm winning the relationship?

 

If at the end of your playthrough, you are satisfied with the character development for the NPC and the options given the PC.

 

That doesn't sound right. I need a meter to tell me if I'm winning at love or not. Perhaps the devs could use Leisure Suit Larry for inspiration?

Just out of curiosity, how do you know when people like you in RL without a meter?

If we knew the answer, would we play RPGs?

[Evil_Sarevok]

I'd rather not deal with romances at all, rather sick of the romances that Bioware did a fair bit, not so much the "they exist" more the Dragon Age style of every single female (or hell some of the males) getting very touchy for getting to know them all, but that was mainly due to bad coding in them practically all thinking there was something going on between your character and them at a certain point, or being very static in terms of only moving foward at set points in the story.

 

Heck, I'd be half inclined to just remove all of the character that wernt "mine" from the party, and play it similar to Icewind Dale, removing any chance of that sort of romance, and also having a party thats fully tailored to my own needs (I cant remember if that was eventually made possible or not anymore), most of the issues I had with, for example, Baldurs Gate, was the very poor character statistics, and inefficient builds, which made me prefer Icewind Dale over Baldurs Gate, even with the lack of inter party dialogue.

 

Character romances are all well and good, but I have yet to see a game that pulls them off without issues, or them feeling very static and uninteresting. I'd rather just not have them at all, to be honest, especially after the debacle that was the ME series, its left romances within games with a very sour taste.

[Dawn_]

All, in all i don't object to romance in PE. But Like Montecarlo said, Sappy romance kill my immersion to the game.

 

Which is why i would rather having a subtle approach of romance in this game like Jaheira/Viconia were. The introduction of a romance in PE and on the expansion/PE2. The finalization of the actual romance.

 

First, it will give the chance to those like me who don't want romance in their game do not just do it without having the impression to miss a part of the game, secondly people who want romance will have the chance to have it (and we will endure it in the expansion).

 

Because i did every romance of DA:O not because i am a fan of romance but because i like finishing a game in its whole aspect especially when i like the game.

Plus why only have a romance that just fit with words. Why can't it be that just by fighting side by side one day one of the character can just tell you"thanks for always protecting me" while blushing.

 

Soft_romance and deductive romance when you have actually to get through words to understand the complexity of others feelings are more worth than empty words.

The romance is even more tastier when it is less obvious and evolve deep and long development in relation. Love for me in PE should be more like trust.

 

When you trust someone by your side to the point of letting him/her shielding you isn't it beautiful enough to not add words ? Or do we need sex, obvious romance, and sappy one?

 

I don't mean to make any assumptions about your personal background, I am well acquainted with what happens when you assume, so please don't take offense at this. But this whole post sort of smacks of the kind of person who doesn't have a lot of real life experience with romance. As a man, It isn't really enough for me to just have a platonic relationship with a girl I like, I don't know any guy for whom that would be the case. Not that I wouldn't help a girl out just because, but more than likely if I like a girl, there is an ulterior motive. It's a little naive to think that romances are all about blushing and stuff, generally they are pretty physical. This post would have seemed perfectly reasonable to me in my early teens, because I used to watch a lot of romantic comedies/drama's and didn't really have any experience with the opposite sex but It doesn't really hold up to experience. And once again don't take that personally, I don't claim to know your life.

 

I don't like to make assumptions either but your post makes me think of someone in his early teens (A kid who are looking at any opportunity to see the other gender naked).

When you need physical relationship and confuse sex with love. It is also a very man point of view.

Plus you might not know but when you actually grow up physical relationship isn't really what you are looking for.

You're looking for more significant love. you might understand that when you will be over your 50's or not (some men never grows).

 

Plus you didn't actually read my post..the actual message in it was "Love for me in PE should be more like trust.

When you trust someone by your side to the point of letting him/her shielding you isn't it beautiful enough to not add words ?"

 

Because love is actually about trust; Sex is a complete another matter.

 

But, i am not sure you might understand. It doesn't seems you have a lot of relationship experience even if i don't know your background (and don't care).

 

But, please don't take offense on what i am saying. I don't claim to know your life.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Dawn_

[BSoda]

I don't like to make assumptions either but your post makes me think of someone in his early teens (A kid who are looking at any opportunity to see the other gender naked).

When you need physical relationship and confuse sex with love. It is also a very man point of view.

Plus you might not know but when you actually grow up physical relationship isn't really what you are looking for.

You're looking for more significant love. you might understand that when you will be over your 50's or not (some men never grows).

 

Plus you didn't actually read my post..the actual message in it was "Love for me in PE should be more like trust.

When you trust someone by your side to the point of letting him/her shielding you isn't it beautiful enough to not add words ?"

 

Because love is actually about trust; Sex is a complete another matter.

 

But, i am not sure you might understand. It doesn't seems you have a lot of relationship experience even if i don't know your background (and don't care).

 

But, please don't take offense on what i am saying. I don't claim to know your life.

I somehow get the impression that you are not talking about 'romance' but love as a more abstract term. Of course love doesn't have to be sexual. Most parents love their children. You can even love inanimated things like a country.

 

Thinking sex plays absoluetly no role in a loving relationship between adults, however...that's kind of naive. Trust is a big part of it, too -but that alone can also be found between close friends and siblings/family.

Edited November 8, 2012 by BSoda

[Dawn_]

I don't like to make assumptions either but your post makes me think of someone in his early teens (A kid who are looking at any opportunity to see the other gender naked).

When you need physical relationship and confuse sex with love. It is also a very man point of view.

Plus you might not know but when you actually grow up physical relationship isn't really what you are looking for.

You're looking for more significant love. you might understand that when you will be over your 50's or not (some men never grows).

 

Plus you didn't actually read my post..the actual message in it was "Love for me in PE should be more like trust.

When you trust someone by your side to the point of letting him/her shielding you isn't it beautiful enough to not add words ?"

 

Because love is actually about trust; Sex is a complete another matter.

 

But, i am not sure you might understand. It doesn't seems you have a lot of relationship experience even if i don't know your background (and don't care).

 

But, please don't take offense on what i am saying. I don't claim to know your life.

I somehow get the impression that you are not talking about 'romance' but love as a more abstract term. Of course love doesn't have to be sexual. Most parents love their children. You can even love inanimated things like a country.

 

Thinking sex plays absoluetly no role in a loving relationship between adults, however...that's kind of naive. Trust is a big part of it, too -but that alone can also be found between close friends and siblings/family.

 

I've never said that sex had no role in relationship. Just that is as important than trust in a relationship (which you seem to agree with me).

But, all doesn't have to only revolve around sex. This isn't how a relationship is built. Like in DA:O where all the romance could be summarize as "i'll give you present so we can have sex". The ultimate goal was to have sex with the NPC.

 

It lacked the deepness it should have. Love is a much more complicated feelings than that. You don't need to add sex to make a good romance. BG2 romance weren't set up as "having sex" as an ultimate goal. The other party had fear, mistrust, jalousy, guilt, etc.

 

You had to win over their trust, calm their fear, undergo their jalousy and appaise their guilt to succeed. I see actually sex in a game romance as a negative factor. It totally ruin the romance itself to the ultimate point when we have games company creating a sort of "i'll make you a gift so we can make out".

 

The ultimate goal of romance in games was to win over the NPC heart. It wasn't having sex. having sex was just a possibility in the romance but it wasn't the whole point nor the goal in it.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Dawn_

[Amentep]

There is no one size fits all (oo er) answer to romance and sex. Some couples have sex very early in the relationship; some couples have sex very late. Some people pursue a relationship just to have sex, others for something else. Trying to make generalizations isn't going to work.

[Jajo]

Just out of curiosity, how do you know when people like you in RL without a meter?

If we knew the answer, would we play RPGs?

 

Yes. Next question, please.

[jezz555]

I don't like to make assumptions either but your post makes me think of someone in his early teens (A kid who are looking at any opportunity to see the other gender naked).

When you need physical relationship and confuse sex with love. It is also a very man point of view.

Plus you might not know but when you actually grow up physical relationship isn't really what you are looking for.

You're looking for more significant love. you might understand that when you will be over your 50's or not (some men never grows).

 

Plus you didn't actually read my post..the actual message in it was "Love for me in PE should be more like trust.

When you trust someone by your side to the point of letting him/her shielding you isn't it beautiful enough to not add words ?"

 

Because love is actually about trust; Sex is a complete another matter.

 

But, i am not sure you might understand. It doesn't seems you have a lot of relationship experience even if i don't know your background (and don't care).

 

But, please don't take offense on what i am saying. I don't claim to know your life.

Okay you clearly took offense...Look I'm not a teenager I'm well into middle age but I am a man and this is a male perspective, so if you want to dismiss it on that basis go right ahead. I know that trust is important in relationships, but I slept with plenty of people I didn't trust before I was married. That's romance as well. I did love those people, not for very long maybe but regardless. Sex and love are not different matters entirely, not to guys like me anyway, I'm not really sure if your a man or a woman based on your post but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say your probably a woman, so I'm sure your perspective is going to be a little different.

 

But I digress, like I said when I was actually in my teens I watched a lot of chick flicks and had a similar outlook on the whole thing as you do now, which is to say I was really into "true love" and "serious relationships" and all that stuff. But as I've grown older and learned more about people I've stopped caring about labelling things as "serious" and "not-serious" and just taken what life threw at me. And I like to think I'm happier this way. Heck maybe, I'm the naive one here, you could be right. But for me love and sex are very much connected and brief romances are no less beautiful, and that's my two cents.