Oversexualization of females in video games

[SunBroSolaire]

So, aside from "boobplate", how do people actually want gender relations presented in the game world? Should societies have modernized, egalitarian views of gender politics, and just avoid addressing inequality? Or should they be more similar to real medieval civilizations?

 

I want them to address gender issues on some level. I do not want it to be grimdark ultra-misogynist world. I would like to see gender concepts explored in a way that's relatable to my own life, including relationships, sexuality, and gender performance. This seems like such a natural fit for an RPG, but I don't think I've ever seen it explored in any depth.

[DocDoomII]

@SunBroSolaire: Witcher 2

[Amentep]

So, aside from "boobplate", how do people actually want gender relations presented in the game world? Should societies have modernized, egalitarian views of gender politics, and just avoid addressing inequality? Or should they be more similar to real medieval civilizations?

 

I want them to address gender issues on some level. I do not want it to be grimdark ultra-misogynist world. I would like to see gender concepts explored in a way that's relatable to my own life, including relationships, sexuality, and gender performance. This seems like such a natural fit for an RPG, but I don't think I've ever seen it explored in any depth.

 

Honestly I think it should be a mix that is dependent on the cultures created. Ie one culture may be egaltarian and another not or something. And within each should be people who don't conform to the norm as opposed to *everyone* believes X (for whatever X is).

[Darth Trethon]

So you are saying that the only way to not be bland is to be offensive?

 

The only way to not be bland is to not be afraid of being offensive.....some will be offended no matter what but the single, surest way to offend the most is by trying really hard to not offend anybody.

 

Well...its a fair point. Not really what I was thinking of, ie I was thinking of being intentionally offensive to not be bland as opposed to having people find offense in something because you didn't second guess everything at every step of development.

 

A lot may not know/remember but one of the biggest things that ruined BioWare's games was when they caved in to false propaganda. The "sexbox" bit during a news fragment of "FoxNews" with self proclaimed "experts" which told nothing but blatant lies about Mass Effect led to all following BioWare games containing nothing but clothed sex. That completely ruined the experience of the game for many.

 

I would find it rather refreshing to see a game with nothing but a huge middle finger for all political correctness and touchy feely subjects. A bit extreme but movies have done it.

[Brannart]

So, aside from "boobplate", how do people actually want gender relations presented in the game world? Should societies have modernized, egalitarian views of gender politics, and just avoid addressing inequality? Or should they be more similar to real medieval civilizations?

 

I think games should, and in general they do, reflect modern sensibilities. The reason I feel this way is it is just too soon, gender inequality is hardly something distinctive to the medieval world. Also we do not want any disadvantages to come to the players who prefer to play female characters.

[Dream]

 

For me it's not a white knight issue. Frankly, I fail to see how oversexualized women in video games contribute to gender discrimination. All the arguments the feminist crowd provides seem fabricated and unconvincing.

 

However, stuff like "boob armor" or mail bikinis totally ruins the experience for me. It is illogical, unrealistic, tasteless, and simply stupid. Worst of all it's fanservice to pimply adolescents and it is insulting to realize that they are the target audience for the game you play.

 

Why are you even here then? Every single game that inspired PE had boob armor or worse (better?). Hell, PS:T had pretty much every female character looking like a super model hooker. If you're actually being serious then the "experience" would have been ruined for you from the get go in each of those games and you wouldn't be a fan of the genre.

[ComradeGoby]

So, aside from "boobplate", how do people actually want gender relations presented in the game world? Should societies have modernized, egalitarian views of gender politics, and just avoid addressing inequality? Or should they be more similar to real medieval civilizations?

 

I want them to address gender issues on some level. I do not want it to be grimdark ultra-misogynist world. I would like to see gender concepts explored in a way that's relatable to my own life, including relationships, sexuality, and gender performance. This seems like such a natural fit for an RPG, but I don't think I've ever seen it explored in any depth.

 

Oh so you want some joke world were women are equal to men and transexual rabbits are kings and queens?

[Hellfell]

So, aside from "boobplate", how do people actually want gender relations presented in the game world? Should societies have modernized, egalitarian views of gender politics, and just avoid addressing inequality? Or should they be more similar to real medieval civilizations?

 

I want them to address gender issues on some level. I do not want it to be grimdark ultra-misogynist world. I would like to see gender concepts explored in a way that's relatable to my own life, including relationships, sexuality, and gender performance. This seems like such a natural fit for an RPG, but I don't think I've ever seen it explored in any depth.

 

I think the best way to do it is to depict different societies within the game world having different reactions to gender relations. Eg elves live in a society where both genders are completely equal - both males and females can be warriors, archers and whatnot. The you have humans who have different opinions. And dwarves who think that males are superior and females should stay home. Something like that.

[SunBroSolaire]

@SunBroSolaire: Witcher 2

As a good example? I haven't played too far into that one yet, but so far I have liked the way CD Projekt handled both gender roles and sexuality. I didn't see them attempting to make any statements about either, but like I said, I still have a lot to play.

 

So, aside from "boobplate", how do people actually want gender relations presented in the game world? Should societies have modernized, egalitarian views of gender politics, and just avoid addressing inequality? Or should they be more similar to real medieval civilizations?

 

I want them to address gender issues on some level. I do not want it to be grimdark ultra-misogynist world. I would like to see gender concepts explored in a way that's relatable to my own life, including relationships, sexuality, and gender performance. This seems like such a natural fit for an RPG, but I don't think I've ever seen it explored in any depth.

 

Honestly I think it should be a mix that is dependent on the cultures created. Ie one culture may be egaltarian and another not or something. And within each should be people who don't conform to the norm as opposed to *everyone* believes X (for whatever X is).

Definitely there should be people who don't conform. I would love to have the chance to roleplay that, and actually have the people in the society react to that fact.

[Brannart]

However, stuff like "boob armor" or mail bikinis totally ruins the experience for me. It is illogical, unrealistic, tasteless, and simply stupid. Worst of all it's fanservice to pimply adolescents and it is insulting to realize that they are the target audience for the game you play.

 

Well the context is important. If everything is highly over the top and stylized then it fits in fine I suppose. It is ridiculous when there is an otherwise more serious world where that sort of thing happens. But it did not happen in the IE games or KOTOR 2 or anything else BIS/Obsidian did so I do not think this has much to do with P:E.

[Brannart]

Hell, PS:T had pretty much every female character looking like a super model hooker.

 

Well...except for the Ravel and company.

 

But PS:T was also stylized way over the top. The main male character was always wearing a loin cloth or whatever and the men had huge shoulder armor and other things emphasizing their body builder physiques. I did not mind it in PS:T. In most games those outfits would have been absurd though. It is a question of tone and so forth.

 

Also the graphics back then kept PS:T from really being erotic.

[Margaretha]

I would find it rather refreshing to see a game with nothing but a huge middle finger for all political correctness and touchy feely subjects. A bit extreme but movies have done it.

Of course, you do realize that "women in the kitchen", or "women as sex fantasies", is NOT politically incorrect? it's a norm. It's been installed and is kept by the current and powerful societal structures

 

nope....when you do a crowd pleaser the game always suffers severely.

Of course, you do realize that the very reason women are depicted as sexy/romanceable/weak/etc; IS a crowd pleaser?

 

And maybe, do you realize you are one of many in the crowd? and that you are not the victim here but the bully?

 

(why am I bothering with question marks..)

[Tsuga C]

Greetings.

 

I would like to touch this issue...

 

[Heresiarch]

For me it's not a white knight issue. Frankly, I fail to see how oversexualized women in video games contribute to gender discrimination. All the arguments the feminist crowd provides seem fabricated and unconvincing.

 

However, stuff like "boob armor" or mail bikinis totally ruins the experience for me. It is illogical, unrealistic, tasteless, and simply stupid. Worst of all it's fanservice to pimply adolescents and it is insulting to realize that they are the target audience for the game you play.

 

Why are you even here then? Every single game that inspired PE had boob armor or worse (better?). Hell, PS:T had pretty much every female character looking like a super model hooker. If you're actually being serious then the "experience" would have been ruined for you from the get go in each of those games and you wouldn't be a fan of the genre.

 

You should read what people say before you start replying.

 

I didn't say I'm against sexy, I said I'm against stupid. I couldn't care less if there was boob armor in BG or not, since you need a magnifying glass to see this stuff on 800 by 600 pixel screen. I could certainly see that there were no chainmail bikinis and that was quite enough for my exquisite taste. As for PST none of those overly sexy outfits were designed for protection. If skimpy clothing is fashionable in Sigil, I don't mind.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Heresiarch

[Darth Trethon]

I would find it rather refreshing to see a game with nothing but a huge middle finger for all political correctness and touchy feely subjects. A bit extreme but movies have done it.

Of course, you do realize that "women in the kitchen", or "women as sex fantasies", is NOT politically incorrect? it's a norm. It's been installed and is kept by the current and powerful societal structures

 

nope....when you do a crowd pleaser the game always suffers severely.

Of course, you do realize that the very reason women are depicted as sexy/romanceable/weak/etc; IS a crowd pleaser?

 

And maybe, do you realize you are one of many in the crowd? and that you are not the victim here but the bully?

 

(why am I bothering with question marks..)

Bully? Not really....I'm all for the ladies getting their share of the fun. It's not like males haven't suffered heavy stereotypes placed upon them in games but you don't see me complaining. As for the women in the kitchen part....I don't recall any game that had them there. What I do recall is many games where women are or can be heroines saving the day. That I do remember.

[Brannart]

Of course, you do realize that "women in the kitchen", or "women as sex fantasies", is NOT politically incorrect? it's a norm. It's been installed and is kept by the current and powerful societal structures

 

Is "women in the kitchen" really still a norm? I hardly ever see that one anymore. Well maybe in some cultures.

[Margaretha]

It's not like males haven't suffered heavy stereotypes placed upon them in games but you don't see me complaining.

You mean the stereotype where men are mountains of muscles, with 140 IQ, lightning reflexes and get the chick at the end? oh.. so.. suffering..

 

@Brannart: TV, or not TV ads? Lego? your own house? etc.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Margaretha

[UncleBourbon]

This reminds me of some women I know who go to the beach wearing bikins, knowing there are plenty of men there, claiming they're "not going to let some perverted old men dictate what they wear," then come back and complain about pervy old men staring at them lustfully. The order of effective protective equipment goes platemail > most actual armors > boobplate > chain bikini, if women are really the same valued, able bodied warriors, I think it only fair they be given the same level of protection, not a lower level just to gratify the auidience/make sure everyone knows they're women and they're STRONG.

[Darth Trethon]

It's not like males haven't suffered heavy stereotypes placed upon them in games but you don't see me complaining.

You mean the stereotype where men are mountains of muscles, with 140 IQ, lightning reflexes and get the chick at the end? oh.. so.. suffering..

 

@Brannart: TV ads.

 

More like mountains of muscle with IQ in the single digits and slow reflexes. The muscles of mountain with 140 IQ is as common these days as the women in the kitchen bit.

[Dream]

For me it's not a white knight issue. Frankly, I fail to see how oversexualized women in video games contribute to gender discrimination. All the arguments the feminist crowd provides seem fabricated and unconvincing.

 

However, stuff like "boob armor" or mail bikinis totally ruins the experience for me. It is illogical, unrealistic, tasteless, and simply stupid. Worst of all it's fanservice to pimply adolescents and it is insulting to realize that they are the target audience for the game you play.

 

Why are you even here then? Every single game that inspired PE had boob armor or worse (better?). Hell, PS:T had pretty much every female character looking like a super model hooker. If you're actually being serious then the "experience" would have been ruined for you from the get go in each of those games and you wouldn't be a fan of the genre.

 

You should read what people say before you start replying.

 

I didn't say I'm against sexy, I said I'm against stupid. I couldn't care less if there was boob armor in BG or not, since you need a magnifying glass to see this stuff on 800 by 600 pixel screen. I could certainly see that there were no chainmail bikinis and that was quite enough for my exquisite taste. As for PST none of those overly sexy outfits were designed for protection. If skimpy clothing is fashionable in Sigil, I don't mind.

 

"stuff like "boob armor" or mail bikinis totally ruins the experience for me"

 

"I couldn't care less if there was boob armor"

 

I want to know who taught you how to argue 'cause that's impressive.

 

Additionally, Annah's armor was skimpy as all get out and I'm pretty sure she didn't give a **** about fashion.

[Margaretha]

More like mountains of muscle with IQ in the single digits and slow reflexes. The muscles of mountain with 140 IQ is as common these days as the women in the kitchen bit.

Isn't some James Bond going on screen these days?

[Azarkon]

Also, it is embarrassing to kill female enemies that are overly exposed (forsworn half naked bandits in skyrim for example).

 

Armor that makes the opponent too embarrassed to attack? Mission accomplished.

OLD

It has already been explained that in a Flight or Fight situation the brain do not care about such things.

 

And anyway, if that would be real, a single naked woman could wipe out an entire army of straight men.

Please, use your brain before posting.

 

Then it's fortunate that we are not in a Flight or Fight situation in video games.

[Darth Trethon]

More like mountains of muscle with IQ in the single digits and slow reflexes. The muscles of mountain with 140 IQ is as common these days as the women in the kitchen bit.

Isn't some James Bond going on screen these days?

 

Since when did bond qualify as a mountain of meat? Haven't you seen the Gears of War trailers or something. Plus bond was always made to appeal more to women....talk about oversexualized male.

[UncleBourbon]

For me it's not a white knight issue. Frankly, I fail to see how oversexualized women in video games contribute to gender discrimination. All the arguments the feminist crowd provides seem fabricated and unconvincing.

 

However, stuff like "boob armor" or mail bikinis totally ruins the experience for me. It is illogical, unrealistic, tasteless, and simply stupid. Worst of all it's fanservice to pimply adolescents and it is insulting to realize that they are the target audience for the game you play.

 

Why are you even here then? Every single game that inspired PE had boob armor or worse (better?). Hell, PS:T had pretty much every female character looking like a super model hooker. If you're actually being serious then the "experience" would have been ruined for you from the get go in each of those games and you wouldn't be a fan of the genre.

 

You should read what people say before you start replying.

 

I didn't say I'm against sexy, I said I'm against stupid. I couldn't care less if there was boob armor in BG or not, since you need a magnifying glass to see this stuff on 800 by 600 pixel screen. I could certainly see that there were no chainmail bikinis and that was quite enough for my exquisite taste. As for PST none of those overly sexy outfits were designed for protection. If skimpy clothing is fashionable in Sigil, I don't mind.

 

"stuff like "boob armor" or mail bikinis totally ruins the experience for me"

 

"I couldn't care less if there was boob armor"

 

I want to know who taught you how to argue 'cause that's impressive.

 

Additionally, Annah's armor was skimpy as all get out and I'm pretty sure she didn't give a **** about fashion.

 

Right. If it is a game with high enough resolution that you can see the type of rediculous armor characters are wearing, as you might in PE, heresiarch cares. In Baldur's Gate, where sprites were running around at 800x600 resolution where you couldn't really tell a boobplate from a flail of ages, heresiarch didn't care.

Edited October 22, 2012 by UncleBourbon

[Brannart]

@Brannart: TV, or not TV ads? Lego? your own house? etc.

 

Just culturally. In earnest anyway.

 

But I guess now that you mention it, it gets used as a tasteless joke sometimes to show a character is really backwards in how they think about gender, like Eric Cartman or something. Or people trying to troll women so I guess it is still around.