Tale Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 So take a really simple, easy-to-understand mechanic and replace it with a more complicated one? It's not that complicated. The extra complication is for a reason, though. It's been used in PnP games for who knows how long at this point for exactly the same reasons. You'll still get your XP and loot for dungeon delving, I don't see what the issue is. 2 "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximKat Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 ^ ARe you telling me that this stamina mechanic and no magical healing isn't radically different from the spirit of the IE games? Really? Different from D&D - yes, but I don't see how minor gameplay elements radically affect the spirit of the game. Furthermore, shouldn't XP be based on the CHALLENGE and not on accommodating all playstyles equally? XP is an artificial concept and should be based, mostly, on the goal of balancing the gameplay, which includes accomodating different playstyles. My point was that I like to just wander about and hopefully encounter interesting foes not necessarily tied to a quest/objective. There seems little point to do that unless it is tied to a quest/objective. I don't understand what you're trying to explain here. In the first sentence you say that you like to just explore, without any quests, but then you say that there is no point in doing it unless there is a connected quest. If a quest objective is to get an artifact (and in the process you can also free a prisoner captured by orcs), but you fail to free the prisoner... Why should you be awarded with the same xp as someone who managed to free the prisoner? You both solved the quest.. in different ways with different playstyles. Ugh, nobody is saying that. If you haven't completed a secondary objective, obviously you get less XP. But if you have completed it, you get the same XP, no matter what route you took: killed the captors, sneaked around and picked the lock from the cage, or bribed a guard and got him free the prisoner. Man, I want to take a fighter, a cleric, a thief and a magic user into a dungeon, kill monsters and earn XP and loot. TBH, this is not really what I imagine when someone says "Baldur’s Gate" or "Planescape: Torment". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SqueakyCat Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) I don't understand what you're trying to explain here. In the first sentence you say that you like to just explore, without any quests, but then you say that there is no point in doing it unless there is a connected quest That understanding could only come from reading the entire thread and J. E. Sawyer's comments regarding how experience is accomulated -- quest/goal only. No experience for killing foes. Do you understand now? Edited October 15, 2012 by SqueakyCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valorian Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Have they stated that non-combat skills will not be related to levelling up? Because THAT would be a wat.png right there. You missed the point, naturally. Combat skills/attributes/abilities are (also) tied to level up. Don't people hone their combat skills by.. you know, engaging in combat and defeating opponents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximKat Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 That understanding could only come from reading the entire thread and J. E. Sawyer's comments regarding how experience is accomulated -- quest/goal only. No experience for killing foes. Do you understand now? Still confused. Do you normally explore for EXP or just for the sake of exploration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SqueakyCat Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I can't help you to understand further. I would suggest reading the entire thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NerdBoner Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) i'm sure they mean you don't get xp for killing fodder...I seriously doubt that if you encounter a Dragon or a demon or even an adventuring party that is powerful that you wouldn't gain experience from vanquishing them. Killing Kobolds once you're at a certain level of power should indeed grant little to no experience though, which makes a lot of sense. Edited October 15, 2012 by NerdBoner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximKat Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Maybe it'd help if you answered my question instead of being a smartass... Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Have they stated that non-combat skills will not be related to levelling up? Because THAT would be a wat.png right there. You missed the point, naturally. Combat skills/attributes/abilities are (also) tied to level up. Don't people hone their combat skills by.. you know, engaging in combat and defeating opponents? What I'm taking away from what they are saying is this - Complete a quest by stabbing things = XP Complete a quest by sneaking past things = XP Stabbing or sneaking as actions do not, inherently, give XP. So no 3xp for stabbing a Gibberling and no skill ups for sneaking around your empty player house with no one around. Enough XP = level up = raising level = improving skills. There may be a logical disconnect to someone earning XP by sneaking suddenly puts it into combat, but if you're wanting to play a sneaky type why would you do that. I may be wrong, but that's what I'm getting from what they're saying. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamerlane Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Have they stated that non-combat skills will not be related to levelling up? Because THAT would be a wat.png right there. You missed the point, naturally. Combat skills/attributes/abilities are (also) tied to level up. Don't people hone their combat skills by.. you know, engaging in combat and defeating opponents? So shouldn't you be advocating separating combat and non-combat levels/EXP? Nobody ever learned how to lie to a judge by throwing a fireball... Edited October 15, 2012 by Tamerlane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I don't understand what you're trying to explain here. In the first sentence you say that you like to just explore, without any quests, but then you say that there is no point in doing it unless there is a connected quest That understanding could only come from reading the entire thread and J. E. Sawyer's comments regarding how experience is accomulated -- quest/goal only. No experience for killing foes. Do you understand now? Even if XP is only generated from Quests/Objectives, it still doesn't follow that they couldn't trigger objectives (so you earn XP) when you stumbled across something from wandering around the wilderness. Only you'd be earning XP for that objective not for whatever you killed in resolving that objective. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valorian Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Have they stated that non-combat skills will not be related to levelling up? Because THAT would be a wat.png right there. You missed the point, naturally. Combat skills/attributes/abilities are (also) tied to level up. Don't people hone their combat skills by.. you know, engaging in combat and defeating opponents? So shouldn't you be advocating separating combat and non-combat levels/EXP? Nobody ever learned how to lie to a judge by throwing a fireball... I'd be fine with that, yes. I'd be also fine with both types of actions giving xp for the same level up pool. Not just one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Theory Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Wow, it's going to be a long 2 years... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maf Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 True dat. It'll probably seem shorter after the KS ends though, when normal life resumes. We'll be forgetting this entire thing until it's already upon us! Don't want to spoil myself too much either, so I'll be keeping a low profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Wow, it's going to be a long 2 years... Yeah, the hardest part now, I guess, is the waiting. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadandDreams Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Will there be any writing input to the story from R.A. Salvatore? I would think that someone with as vast a knowledge as he on fantasy worlds could be a real asset to the storyline! ...The Lord of Murder shall perish but in his death he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown in their foot steps... - So Sayith the Wise Alondo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyor Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 It just doesn't feel like an I.E. game. There's little point, for me personally, to wander off the path and just explore unless it's tied to a quest or goal. I'd just be using up resources with no XP gain. While I'm thankful for the new information, it's looking less and less what I had imagined. I'm sure we all had imagined it in our own ways and, for some, these design choices are what they are looking for in the game. For me, not so much, and with less than 30 hours, I have to do some serious thinking about how much entertainment I believe I would get from the game versus the money pledged. Who says exploring can't be a quest/goal or lead to quests/goals? Like searching around you find a lost puppy by accident and save it for XP. Also concider the possiblity of bounty quests from merchants and authoroties. Like a Merchant needs werewolf pelts and other local body parts, so if you sell him enough to do whatever, you get xp. Or a local Paladin gives a reward for any bandits, dead or alive, and each time you complete this quest/goal you get xp. Or maybe an Old Cartographer gives you a quest to find new areas for him so for each area that you full explore, in which nothing is left hidden, you get xp. Not to mention enemies will still have loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSOCC Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Will there be any writing input to the story from R.A. Salvatore? I would think that someone with as vast a knowledge as he on fantasy worlds could be a real asset to the storyline! R.A. Salvatore is literally the worst ****ing author in the history of fantasy. Cliché ridden plot driven drivel. NO ****ing NO.No Salvatore, No Grubb, NO Donaldson, No Feist, No Goodkind and No Martin. Good fantasy artists include Brent Weeks, Patrick Rothfuss, Trudi Cannavan, Robin Hobb. I've read from all of these including those I don't like, and I think I can tell the difference between good and bad quality fantasy, you honestly can't bring up Salvatore as a postive. Remember: Argue the point, not the person. Remain polite and constructive. Friendly forums have friendly debate. There's no shame in being wrong. If you don't have something to add, don't post for the sake of it. And don't be afraid to post thoughts you are uncertain about, that's what discussion is for.---Pet threads, everyone has them. I love imagining Gods, Monsters, Factions and Weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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