Malcador Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Sigh Arguing the "needs too much resources" angle is fine and factual. Dropping empty, inciting words like "dating simulator", "Bioware romance", or "(certain) japanese games" aren't however. The constant veiled insults -all some variation of "get a life"- don't help, either...and the later seems to make up a felt 95% of all the "arguments" anti-romancers seem to be able to come up with. And this, naturally, has always been from the meanies on the other side, right ? Heh. The rate that those threads kept popping up probably contributed to that, perhaps. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Merin Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Having just finished MotB not long ago, restarted PS:T (again to try and finish it for once), and also playing SoZ for the first time... not to count the numerous plays of AP and IWD - I can say the only games where romance isn't at all a big part of the game is the ones where you make your parties (SoZ, IWD - and this is assuming a lot since I'm not that far into SoZ.) Romance is a huge, central parts of MotB and PS:T. And there are plenty of romancing to be done in AP, James Bond style if you like. I find it odd that Obsidian fans ignore that the majority of Obsidian games have romance as central to storylines. How does MotB's plot make sense, AT ALL, if you take love out of it? 1
Morality Games Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) Having just finished MotB not long ago, restarted PS:T (again to try and finish it for once), and also playing SoZ for the first time... not to count the numerous plays of AP and IWD - I can say the only games where romance isn't at all a big part of the game is the ones where you make your parties (SoZ, IWD - and this is assuming a lot since I'm not that far into SoZ.) Romance is a huge, central parts of MotB and PS:T. And there are plenty of romancing to be done in AP, James Bond style if you like. I find it odd that Obsidian fans ignore that the majority of Obsidian games have romance as central to storylines. How does MotB's plot make sense, AT ALL, if you take love out of it? Most of their narrative-driven RPGs do. Exploration-driven RPGs like Fallout stylistically preclude them. Edited October 16, 2012 by Morality Games May Kickstarter be with you and all your stretch goals achieved.
Monte Carlo Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Yeah, what's love, what's love got to do with it? what's love, but a second-hand emotion? *sniff*
Loranc Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) I'm just glad that out of my entire post the only thing you guys 'really' didn't like was the part about Lelianna's song. I'm sure there were other portions you didn't like/care for, but out of it all that was the part you focused on. Which means (I hope) that the rest of my post was semi well thought out. Edited October 16, 2012 by Loranc Obsidian @Obsidian Current PayPal status: $140,000. 2,200 backers "Hmm so last Paypal information was 140,000 putting us at 4,126,929. We did well over and beyond 4 million, and still have an old backer number from Paypal. 76,186 backers. It's very possible that we have over 75,000 backers if I had new Paypal information. Which means we may have 15 Mega dungeon levels, and we already are going to have an amazing game + cats (I swear I will go stir crazy if Adam doesn't own up to the cats thing )." Switching to Paypal means that more of your money will go towards Project Eternity. (The more you know.) Paypal charges .30 cents per transaction and 2.2% for anything over 100,000 per month for U.S currency. Other currency is different, ranging from anywhere between 2.2-4.9%. Kick Starter is a fixed 5% charge at the end.
Monte Carlo Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 ^ Dude I'm a hater. I hated all of it. Not you, you strike me as a very nice guy, but jesus I hate CRPG romances.
kenup Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 ^ Dude I'm a hater. I hated all of it. Not you, you strike me as a very nice guy, but jesus I hate CRPG romances. So you like JRPG romance? 1
Loranc Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 ^ Dude I'm a hater. I hated all of it. Not you, you strike me as a very nice guy, but jesus I hate CRPG romances. Just crpg romances? btw is there a new backer amount? Someone posted in my countdown section 125,000 but I can't find confirmation. Obsidian @Obsidian Current PayPal status: $140,000. 2,200 backers "Hmm so last Paypal information was 140,000 putting us at 4,126,929. We did well over and beyond 4 million, and still have an old backer number from Paypal. 76,186 backers. It's very possible that we have over 75,000 backers if I had new Paypal information. Which means we may have 15 Mega dungeon levels, and we already are going to have an amazing game + cats (I swear I will go stir crazy if Adam doesn't own up to the cats thing )." Switching to Paypal means that more of your money will go towards Project Eternity. (The more you know.) Paypal charges .30 cents per transaction and 2.2% for anything over 100,000 per month for U.S currency. Other currency is different, ranging from anywhere between 2.2-4.9%. Kick Starter is a fixed 5% charge at the end.
Monte Carlo Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Anyhow, I've been with my wife since 1994 what would I know about romance?
Morality Games Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) I'm just glad that out of my entire post the only thing you guys 'really' didn't like was the part about Lelianna's song. I'm sure there were other portions you didn't like/care for, but out of it all that was the part you focused on. Which means (I hope) that the rest of my post was semi well thought out. In fairness, you buried your own grave when you made it as long and elaborate as you did. Brevity and catchy phrases carry the day on the Internet. Edited October 16, 2012 by Morality Games May Kickstarter be with you and all your stretch goals achieved.
Moirnelithe Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 ^ Dude I'm a hater. I hated all of it. Not you, you strike me as a very nice guy, but jesus I hate CRPG romances. That's ok, I really hate having to play a guy (I'm looking at you PS:T / TW / AP). We all have our battles. 1
Loranc Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 ^ Dude I'm a hater. I hated all of it. Not you, you strike me as a very nice guy, but jesus I hate CRPG romances. That's ok, I really hate having to play a guy (I'm looking at you PS:T / TW / AP). We all have our battles. That's a good point, games forcing you to play Male characters. Not to mention 'The Witcher 2' opening sex scene, forced romance in your face! I wonder how many people hate/enjoyed that game? Not talking about gameplay or combat, just simply the whole Witcher/Merigold theme. Obsidian @Obsidian Current PayPal status: $140,000. 2,200 backers "Hmm so last Paypal information was 140,000 putting us at 4,126,929. We did well over and beyond 4 million, and still have an old backer number from Paypal. 76,186 backers. It's very possible that we have over 75,000 backers if I had new Paypal information. Which means we may have 15 Mega dungeon levels, and we already are going to have an amazing game + cats (I swear I will go stir crazy if Adam doesn't own up to the cats thing )." Switching to Paypal means that more of your money will go towards Project Eternity. (The more you know.) Paypal charges .30 cents per transaction and 2.2% for anything over 100,000 per month for U.S currency. Other currency is different, ranging from anywhere between 2.2-4.9%. Kick Starter is a fixed 5% charge at the end.
Merin Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 ^ Dude I'm a hater. I hated all of it. Not you, you strike me as a very nice guy, but jesus I hate CRPG romances. That's ok, I really hate having to play a guy (I'm looking at you PS:T / TW / AP). We all have our battles. And I really dislike playing games where I'm forced to worship a god, or work with evil people, or accept assassins and thieves as "legitimate choices." We all have to accept that not every part of a game is designed just for our own personal and absolute tastes.
lordgizka Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Having just finished MotB not long ago, restarted PS:T (again to try and finish it for once), and also playing SoZ for the first time... not to count the numerous plays of AP and IWD - I can say the only games where romance isn't at all a big part of the game is the ones where you make your parties (SoZ, IWD - and this is assuming a lot since I'm not that far into SoZ.) Romance is a huge, central parts of MotB and PS:T. And there are plenty of romancing to be done in AP, James Bond style if you like. I find it odd that Obsidian fans ignore that the majority of Obsidian games have romance as central to storylines. How does MotB's plot make sense, AT ALL, if you take love out of it? There is likely a difference in the eyes of developers (and part of the fanbase) between PC romances (as in, in which the PC takes part) and NPC romances. MotB has love as one of it's central themes, but it would lose nothing of Safiya wasn't a romanceable character. This argument doesn't apply to Torment as well, but meh. Also, as Avellone wrote in one of his interviews, romance (and friendship) exist apparently to "ego-stroke" the player, which actually implies a lot of things about the mindsets of people playing RPGs, which I would like to think are simply not true. What is this supposed "ego-stroking" anyway? Attempting to instill the player with the feeling of self-worth because NPCs like him/her? The PC, mind you, not the actual player.
Oubliette Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Having just finished MotB not long ago, restarted PS:T (again to try and finish it for once), and also playing SoZ for the first time... not to count the numerous plays of AP and IWD - I can say the only games where romance isn't at all a big part of the game is the ones where you make your parties (SoZ, IWD - and this is assuming a lot since I'm not that far into SoZ.) Romance is a huge, central parts of MotB and PS:T. And there are plenty of romancing to be done in AP, James Bond style if you like. I find it odd that Obsidian fans ignore that the majority of Obsidian games have romance as central to storylines. How does MotB's plot make sense, AT ALL, if you take love out of it? I think this is a very good point, and while I hope that Project Eternity won't have any sexual content (awkward 'tent scenes', resources spent on romances for every possible sexual orientation combination and so on - and I'm sure it won't), I really, really hope that it will have a subtle element of romance between some characters or the mature theme of tragic or destructive love like Torment did. I loved the understated, mostly unspoken romance between Annah, Grace and the Nameless One as well as Ravel and Deionarra, and would hate to have things like that eliminated from RPGs just because of the cringe-worthiness of more recent game romances.
Morality Games Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 ^ Dude I'm a hater. I hated all of it. Not you, you strike me as a very nice guy, but jesus I hate CRPG romances. That's ok, I really hate having to play a guy (I'm looking at you PS:T / TW / AP). We all have our battles. That's a good point, games forcing you to play Male characters. Not to mention 'The Witcher 2' opening sex scene, forced romance in your face! I wonder how many people hate/enjoyed that game? Not talking about gameplay or combat, just simply the whole Witcher/Merigold theme. Didn't like being trapped in the Witcher/Merigold theme all that much, especially since it was a hard counter to my Shani romance in the original game. But I accepted their logic in the end. May Kickstarter be with you and all your stretch goals achieved.
Malcador Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 That's a good point, games forcing you to play Male characters. Not to mention 'The Witcher 2' opening sex scene, forced romance in your face! I wonder how many people hate/enjoyed that game? Not talking about gameplay or combat, just simply the whole Witcher/Merigold theme. Could have done with out that, but that's CDP for you, everything else you have to actively go for. Although in that game, I guess it does make sense to have a 'romance' with Triss, part of the books if I recall. Don't think the majority of Obsidian games have romance as a central theme, considering a set of NWN2, KOTOR2, AP, DS3 and FO:NV. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Morality Games Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Having just finished MotB not long ago, restarted PS:T (again to try and finish it for once), and also playing SoZ for the first time... not to count the numerous plays of AP and IWD - I can say the only games where romance isn't at all a big part of the game is the ones where you make your parties (SoZ, IWD - and this is assuming a lot since I'm not that far into SoZ.) Romance is a huge, central parts of MotB and PS:T. And there are plenty of romancing to be done in AP, James Bond style if you like. I find it odd that Obsidian fans ignore that the majority of Obsidian games have romance as central to storylines. How does MotB's plot make sense, AT ALL, if you take love out of it? There is likely a difference in the eyes of developers (and part of the fanbase) between PC romances (as in, in which the PC takes part) and NPC romances. MotB has love as one of it's central themes, but it would lose nothing of Safiya wasn't a romanceable character. This argument doesn't apply to Torment as well, but meh. Also, as Avellone wrote in one of his interviews, romance (and friendship) exist apparently to "ego-stroke" the player, which actually implies a lot of things about the mindsets of people playing RPGs, which I would like to think are simply not true. What is this supposed "ego-stroking" anyway? Attempting to instill the player with the feeling of self-worth because NPCs like him/her? The PC, mind you, not the actual player. I'm afraid your mistaken. Video games are intrinsically ego-stroking for the player, especially RPGs. The whole idea is to identify with a character who does great things. May Kickstarter be with you and all your stretch goals achieved.
mya79 Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 I prefer mature romance and optional than romance fanbase !
Merin Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 How does MotB's plot make sense, AT ALL, if you take love out of it? There is likely a difference in the eyes of developers (and part of the fanbase) between PC romances (as in, in which the PC takes part) and NPC romances. MotB has love as one of it's central themes, but it would lose nothing of Safiya wasn't a romanceable character. I don't think that's true. Safiya's feelings for your character, her justification for sticking with you, and whether it's because of who their past selves were or because of who your current selves are, is pretty central to MotB's themes. If your character couldn't embrace or reject her feelings, I think something significant would be lost from the story.
Bill Gates' Son Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 ^ Dude I'm a hater. I hated all of it. Not you, you strike me as a very nice guy, but jesus I hate CRPG romances. That's ok, I really hate having to play a guy (I'm looking at you PS:T / TW / AP). We all have our battles. You must hate playing the majority of games out there then.
lordgizka Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) Having just finished MotB not long ago, restarted PS:T (again to try and finish it for once), and also playing SoZ for the first time... not to count the numerous plays of AP and IWD - I can say the only games where romance isn't at all a big part of the game is the ones where you make your parties (SoZ, IWD - and this is assuming a lot since I'm not that far into SoZ.) Romance is a huge, central parts of MotB and PS:T. And there are plenty of romancing to be done in AP, James Bond style if you like. I find it odd that Obsidian fans ignore that the majority of Obsidian games have romance as central to storylines. How does MotB's plot make sense, AT ALL, if you take love out of it? There is likely a difference in the eyes of developers (and part of the fanbase) between PC romances (as in, in which the PC takes part) and NPC romances. MotB has love as one of it's central themes, but it would lose nothing of Safiya wasn't a romanceable character. This argument doesn't apply to Torment as well, but meh. Also, as Avellone wrote in one of his interviews, romance (and friendship) exist apparently to "ego-stroke" the player, which actually implies a lot of things about the mindsets of people playing RPGs, which I would like to think are simply not true. What is this supposed "ego-stroking" anyway? Attempting to instill the player with the feeling of self-worth because NPCs like him/her? The PC, mind you, not the actual player. I'm afraid your mistaken. Video games are intrinsically ego-stroking for the player, especially RPGs. The whole idea is to identify with a character who does great things. Is this really that absolute? Roleplaying doesn't intrinsically mean that people roleplay themselves. They roleplay a character with a distinct personality which isn't their own. Where exactly is identifying yourself with the character comes in? Edited October 16, 2012 by lordgizka
Merin Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 I'm afraid your mistaken. Video games are intrinsically ego-stroking for the player, especially RPGs. The whole idea is to identify with a character who does great things. Is this really that absolute? Roleplaying doesn't intrinsically mean that people roleplay themselves. They roleplay a character with a distinct personality which isn't their own. Where exactly is identifying yourself with the character comes in? For a lot of players, they seriously do play themselves in the game world... or project themselves onto the character. It's not how I see role-playing, but many, many people DO see it this way.
kenup Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 I'm afraid your mistaken. Video games are intrinsically ego-stroking for the player, especially RPGs. The whole idea is to identify with a character who does great things. One can identify themselves with any well written character, doesn't mean they see themselves as that character. If that was the case, then a lot of people playing RPGs need a psychologist. Never know when the next nerd will go on a rampage, right?
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