Aedelric Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) To stop derailing the other topic, we can discuss the pro and con's of the Monk class here. Personally I am completely against a stereotyped Asian kung-fu fighter with spiritual overtones. The archetype has been done over and over again, in many varying settings and in most cases when set within a high fantasy medieval world it often feels and looks out of place. How can this be addressed? In European culture monks traditional are peaceful, tend herb gardens and wear habits dedicating their lives to god. But the crusades changed that and we had the likes of Hospitilars, warrior monks who took vows to fight zealously for god and heal the wounded. A much more likeable monk archetype in my opinion. Are you for kung-fu monks or against? Edit - Good suggestion was flagellants. Edited October 4, 2012 by Aedelric 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocDoomII Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I'm not against martial arts monks, but they can be designed after Chuck Norris for what I care. I don't see the point of adding Monks similar to the Knight Templars though. They seems to be too similar to normal warriors or melee Priest. Do you think Pillars of Eternity doesn't have enough Portraits? Submit your vote in this Poll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadenuat Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I don't see the point of adding Monks similar to the Knight Templars though. They seems to be too similar to normal warriors or melee Priest. What about someone like Warhammer's flagellants? Almost naked fanatics, badly armed, faith and everything. Still, it's not really the origin of the class I am more concerned with, rather it's mechanics. Monks are often tend to be boring to create, level up and dress up. You can't give them weapons, because you instantly lock their martial ability. You don't give them armor, as it locks their Wisdom-based AC bonus. So they just kinda run around naked, getting fixed feats you can't really tweak with, acting as fighters for players who can't create a decent fighter. That's how I felt about them in NWN1-2, Wizardry and Might and Magic anyway. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aedelric Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) True a fighter/priest with zealot fury, but still better than a kung-fu monk. Edit - Nice concept Shadenuat, much better than kung-fu monks. Edited October 4, 2012 by Aedelric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badmojo Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I'm not against martial arts monks, but they can be designed after Chuck Norris for what I care. I don't see the point of adding Monks similar to the Knight Templars though. They seems to be too similar to normal warriors or melee Priest. I kind of agree, all though they are technically different. Perhaps they should have had a holly warrior class and then have knight templar and monks archetyps as sub classes, then have the fighting style (sword weilding fighter, martial arts..etc) as style fighting options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aedelric Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) How about we drop martial arts entirely. Guns, magic, swords, archery and some semi-naked lunatic runs around trying to punch people in the face? I am all for suspension of disbelief, but that is being slightly ridiculous. Hospitilar/Flagellant is the way to go I think. Edited October 4, 2012 by Aedelric 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knott Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Monks should be martial artists, but their martial prowess should not be limited to just fists/body, they should be able to excell at any weapon. But most of all they shouldn't be exclusively religious. From the concept art it seems they will use their soulpowers internally and/or focused to their martial prowess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aedelric Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Monks should be martial artists, but their martial prowess should not be limited to just fists/body, they should be able to excell at any weapon. But most of all they shouldn't be exclusively religious. From the concept art it seems they will use their soulpowers internally and/or focused to their martial prowess. The whole point of the title monk means they are religious. Other weapons? Dear god do not say nunchaku. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I don't have a problem with Monks using martial arts as well as weapons. It's what I would expect in a fantasy rpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocDoomII Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 How about we drop martial arts entirely. Guns, magic, swords, archery and some semi-naked lunatic runs around trying to punch people in the face? I am all for suspension of disbelief, but that is being slightly ridiculous. Hospitilar/Flagellant is the way to go I think. Well, I don't know how real can it be, but I've seen some documentaries of tibetan monks wrecking piles of roof tiles with a hand and being hit with an iron bar and said iron bar bending. A fantasy martial art monk could very well being able to withstand projectile weapons to a certain degree... and why not throw punches in the face? Hands can be quite lethal if the enemy is not wearing a 100% covering plate mail. Usually armors have weak spots at the joints anyway and I bet that it's easier to fall a guy suited in plate mail than one dressed with shirt and pants. 2 Do you think Pillars of Eternity doesn't have enough Portraits? Submit your vote in this Poll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocDoomII Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 The whole point of the title monk means they are religious. Other weapons? Dear god do not say nunchaku. Man, why are you so fixated on nunchaku? The last time I even saw one of that things it was in the Ninja Turtles tv series and I think it was the late '80s Do you think Pillars of Eternity doesn't have enough Portraits? Submit your vote in this Poll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aedelric Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) So long as they have roof tiles to fight and everyone else uses iron bars, then they should be safe. I have seen the same documentaries, they are quite some feats of endurance, but they are all in the confines of strictly monitored surroundings. In combat they use weapons like spears and things. So basically I am still not convinced about kung-fu monks. Edit - I liked the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles when I was growing up. :D I am not obsessed about them, unless you mean obsessively dislike them. Edited October 4, 2012 by Aedelric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xantomas Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I like the idea of monks using their souls to enhance their body directly instead of through their weapons like with a fighter. The monk in the concept art is FLAME PUNCHING those undead guys in the face. I'd like to see the monk as more of a barbarian, they don't need weapons because they channel destructive powers through their fists. They'll have different powers than a fighter and I would think less durability but more evasion. The next question that comes to my mind is how is the Barbarian going to be different than that? Same thing but with a sword? I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knott Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Monks should be martial artists, but their martial prowess should not be limited to just fists/body, they should be able to excell at any weapon. But most of all they shouldn't be exclusively religious. From the concept art it seems they will use their soulpowers internally and/or focused to their martial prowess. The whole point of the title monk means they are religious. Other weapons? Dear god do not say nunchaku. The word monk might have been taken from a religious institution, but it is only a class name, and countless RPGs have evolved it beyond peace loving disciples of a religion. The name used for this class is there only for familiarity reasons, Obsidian intends to make classes much more than a name and a lable (ref, Upd#15). As for weapons I said any weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thulean Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I'm just not a fan of them in fantasy games. I would also prefer a Templar/Hospitaller type monks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 There are fist weapon potentials, if they wanted to include them. They probably will have spell abilities of some sort...why not a potent soul-channeling protection spell? And it seems like I see the handle of a weapon on the Monk in the wallpaper, so I'm going to assume they can use some weapons. Flexibility seems to be a key here ... possibly if you want to be a martial-arts fist Monk, you can do that, and if you want to be a bit more of a weapon-Monk, that too. Just guessing tho. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOK222 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I'm just not a fan of them in fantasy games. I would also prefer a Templar/Hospitaller type monks. They're called paladins. Ka-ka-ka-ka-Cocaine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thulean Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I'm just not a fan of them in fantasy games. I would also prefer a Templar/Hospitaller type monks. They're called paladins. There are no paladins in PE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arundor Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Monks are my favourite class in any RPG, and I absolutely want them to use martial arts. It doesn't have to be their *only* choice, but it should be one of them. Putting aside real world monks, a monk class in a CRPG will probably draw heavily from the D&D image which is totally fine by me. The lack of weapons and armour is exactly why I like Monks. When playing as a Monk my effectiveness is based on my intrinsic stats and abilities as opposed to transient factors like what weapon and armour I happen to have at the time. If I do well it's because I earned it from making good tactical choices and good skill selections, not because I bought a nice sword from the last merchant I visited. And yes that's kind of an exaggeration because I know that skill goes into properly playing other classes as well. I don't say that to belittle other classes that rely more on equipment. But for my own personal enjoyment, I like the idea that my character's victories come from his own intrinsic abilities and from my skill in picking those abilities. I like that idea that someone can't just take my weapon and armour away from me and suddenly make me helpless. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aedelric Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 If he has a dagger LadyCrimson, surely it would make more sense to channel said energy into that? It think it would do more damage to someone's head than a fist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocDoomII Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I'm just not a fan of them in fantasy games. I would also prefer a Templar/Hospitaller type monks. They're called paladins. Or Clerics. But in P:E they called them Priests. Do you think Pillars of Eternity doesn't have enough Portraits? Submit your vote in this Poll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NerdBoner Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 i don't really see a problem with monks in the setting...if soul power can be used by fighters to augment attacks, by rogues to hide in plain sight and by priests to cast deity specific magic then why not a sect of monks who dedicate their lives to channeling their soul power through their body to produce super natural feats? I imagined people would have had more of a problem with cipher's to be honest.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOK222 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 If he has a dagger LadyCrimson, surely it would make more sense to channel said energy into that? It think it would do more damage to someone's head than a fist. People like monks using martial arts, don't try put logic into this, they like it and it's going to be in the game. Martial arts also isn't a strictly asiacentric thing, Greeks had a comprehensive art of wrestling, vikings also had details of brawls and such. Persians developed their own grappling style. So Obsidian isn't going to force a Bruce Lee archetype. That's not to say people can't make Bruce Lee archetypes, but it isn't forced. Ka-ka-ka-ka-Cocaine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjshae Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 It's a different world, so different rules apply. The Greeks had martial arts -- pankration -- as early as 648 BC. Legend has it the art was practiced by Greek soldiers. There's no reason that couldn't have later developed into a creed of religious aestheticism during a dark age; particularly one in which peasants were not allowed to carry weapons used by a knight. Hence it is feasible for use with a Western-type fantasy setting. But some name changes, for both monkish weapons and powers, would perhaps be fitting. "It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOK222 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Capoiera, developed by Brazilian slaves due to weapon ban. The list can go on. Ka-ka-ka-ka-Cocaine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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