Update #15: PayPal, Polish and Russian support, $2.5M/$2.6M stretch goals, new reddit Q&A, classes, and art!

[choasrepeated]

Can I just say that atheist priests are a great idea, basically they have no powers and hang about shouting about how the gods don't exist.

And preists would have no powers and would shout that gods do right?

Actually that would be pretty fun, a real twist; priests with no divine powers all all, rather charm based abilities based on there abilities to manipulate.

[Shevek]

Adventurer's Hall! Awesome!

[Inertia]

To the people wanting a paladin what's the difference between a pal and a priest who plays as lawful good? Especially with char customization being seemingly open heavily armored mages and the like. As for the the hall i ended up playing solo in games where i had to create my own party so probably wont be using that good idea though. And cipher seems like the class ill go for first time around assuming we make it.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Inertia

[NoxNoctum]

Great update! Art looks amazing.

 

Man I wish I wasn't broke I want to donate so bad right now

 

Will we be able to send Obs money through paypal after the KS has ended?

[Wombat]

What you describe about the character seems to me more like the Wizard class - even closer, a Sorcerer. Not a priest.

That's happen to be my initial thought, too (I have no idea on why you differenciate Sorc from Wizard, though). In any case, as long as there are various way of thinking, it suffices to me.

 

Thanks for the update, anyway.

[choasrepeated]

Hi, responding with account I created; As for why.

 

First off in response to the point about it not making sense due to the presnece of entities of emense power that claim to be gods:

The presence of gods in the world would only make you a deist not a theist and only arguably that as you could still challenge these entities in their claims of ownership and control of the mortal races.

As a result even if these entities where gods and were creators some people could perfects sanely challenge there godhood. Additionally if others aceepted their godhood they could still challenge these entities rights over them (an anti-theist in other words)just as I dont 'own' my children the gods dont 'own' me they could claim.

 

Its also worth noting that in real life non-atheists dont have any divinine-related powers or abilities either, mages cant throw fireballs and dragons dont fly the skies.

As in a fanasty world these things do happen why wouldn't an atheist be able to use their faith in their selves, the universe, there race, there friends or whatever to access the powers?

 

As for why; its easy to accept a world with dragons, goblins, elves and mages in a fanasty setting as they are so vivid and tactile.

However I find the gods in a fanasty setting are either as remote as real life or simply a macguffin charged super being who the the player can actually superpass in power.

This severely impacts my immersion. For example in the planes of power expansion of ever quest it was possible for a priest of a given god to join a raid and kill the god they worship.

Not only not losing their powers following this but actually usual their powers against the very entity that granted them.

 

If it is the faith in what ever that grants these powers then this is an internal consistent world, if it is the god that grants these powers then it makes no sense.

If as in the first option it is faith that grants the power (the indication was from the update its the preist's faith that power's their souls to perform the spells) then why would some choose to have faith that they dont need a god at all?

 

Additionally as to why, why not?

 

I don't want to get into a debate about this, as I'm pretty sure this will lead into territory best avoided on these forums. But suffice to say I disagree with you on this. Your reference to being able to challenge/defeat/kill the gods may not actually apply to this world. Perhaps they actually are gods in this setting and cannot be challenged or defeated by mere mortals. Given a setting in which gods are indisputably real beings, I cannot sea an atheist priest being a viable option. An anti-theist priest? Maybe, but what power would he have? What you describe about the character seems to me more like the Wizard class - even closer, a Sorcerer. Not a priest.

 

Thank you I appreciate your concession and rush to the common ground that atheist priests could be possible.

 

As for the abilities, I would suggest restoration and clairvoyance style spheres. Or to put it another way, heals, buffs, and disenchants.

 

As for the wizard or sorcery options a wizard bases their abilities on intellect and incantations, has no physical martial ability and must learn spells, oh an usually is a dps character not a support character. A sorcerer bases their abilities on the force of personality, can cast any spell available, also has no physical martial ability and is also a pure dps character.

 

A priest on the other hand bases their powers on a belief in an ethos, is granted spells by that belief, has martial ability and is fills a support role.

 

But I'll leave it at that, as I'm happy to accept your agreement that such a role could exist in the world setting without pushing my luck.

Edited October 4, 2012 by choasrepeated

[themanclaw]

I'm gonna be that guy that makes everyone roll their eyes but... the two women happen to be placed together, on the far right, closest to the giant tentacle monster approaching them while one of the women is having her clothes tugged down.

Yeah, yeah. I need to get my mind out of the gutter.

[Shevek]

Paladins really are just lawful good fighter clerics with lay on hands. Then again, rangers are just fighter druids and they made it in. Maybe paladins wouldn't work because paladins need to be able to fall and this game doesn't have an alignment system. Either way, mechanically, they aren't that special. Frankly, I only used inquisitors in bg2 because their dispel was op.

[Ieo]

I think Cadegun is a priestess --- she's turning those undead with an amulet. I've commented on this stuff on the other general discussion forum but will reiterate how great all of this content is. Congratulations.

 

Hm, I didn't notice an amulet but it makes sense that she's holding something at her chest. The "energy" light around them could either be from that or whatever the wizard is doing--what if that's a group manifestation of soul against the undead? *intrigued* Of course, this is just concept art, so...

 

Still 2012??? FFFFFFUUUUUUUUU...

*cough**cough*

I mean, awesome update. Must have psionic class and custom NPCs. Must have. I wish I could raise my pledge but as I mentioned once in the Kickstarter, I can only pledge my work force at this moment. So people better start ignoring other projects and raise pledges for this one!!!

 

The ranger does indeed seem as tall as Cadegund but it's ok. And Cadegund looks amazing. Need names for the wizard and the monk!!! Do we have magical tattooes in PE?

 

Man, I wish.... (tattoos).... Maybe as a special 'gear' slot related only to soul.... (Hey, I can dream.)

 

To the people wanting a paladin what's the difference between a pal and a priest who plays as lawful good? Especially with char customization being seemingly open heavily armored mages and the like.

 

The reason why "paladin" can't exist as a discrete class is because, as others have said, alignment doesn't exist, only reputation, which makes more sense in the "RP-to-interact-with-world" sense. Paladin by DnD definition requires the alignment. Just make a fully armored priest and RP the lawful good in-game...

[Merin]

I don't think having atheist or anti-theist characters is totally bad, but they would have to have some feasible game-world explanation so we don't roll our eyes. I can think of atheist arguments within the setting, but whether they'd flesh out to be reasonable on further thought I don't know. I'm certainly not an atheist and I doubt if I make one, so no skin off my back either way.

 

Yeah, I'm an atheist, but if the fictional world has established gods and the characters of that world have regular examples of their gods existing, being an atheist is pretty silly. Now being someone who chooses to not worship the gods despite knowing they exist, that's absolutely doable and should probably be as often an option as being able to play evil.

[Knott]

This is an awsome update!

 

Many of my doubts in regards to classes have been washed away!

One little nit-pick though: the class names, it would be cool if you gave the classes some refreshingly new, more creative names. You've already renamed Psieonics to Ciphers.

Here's some examples for inspiration: (trying to keep to just single-word titles)

Fighter - Soldier, Warrior

Rogue - Shadow,

Priest - Preacher, Missionary, Templar, Thesist

Wizard - Soulmage, Soulmagus, Soulscribe, Arcanist

Ranger - Warden, Scout,

Druid - (Is it going to be a shapechanger or a Nature Priest/Naturalist?)

Monk - Disciple,

Barbarian - Brute, Berserker

[Deraldin]

Okay, so not a huge deal, but what kind of weird resolution is 1650x1050? I'm grateful for something other than 16:9, but I wasn't expecting 11:7.

[Arundor]

You've made me very happy with the news of Monks.

 

Cipher sounds great too. Time to start upping pledges.

[DocDoomII]

Okay, so not a huge deal, but what kind of weird resolution is 1650x1050? I'm grateful for something other than 16:9, but I wasn't expecting 11:7.

Yeah, what's 1650x1050? Should have been 1680x1050

[Cantousent]

I would like to point out that I can get behind atheists (or folks wanting to play atheists) in the game, but it does make it a bit snarky when my real life faith is disparaged in the process. Any educated person of faith, and I humbly submit that I am such a one, can make anti-religious, anti-theist, and atheist arguments. After all, folks of faith hear them all the time. Belief and our relationship with the world is quite difficult to quantify, but I do believe a convincing and compelling character can be made. However, will the design team find it useful to do so? If the request is for a player character atheist priest, that's a lot of specific dialogue.

 

Aw, what the hell, snarky can be good as long as we don't flame for several pages.

[themanclaw]

I would like to point out that I can get behind atheists (or folks wanting to play atheists) in the game, but it does make it a bit snarky when my real life faith is disparaged in the process. Any educated person of faith, and I humbly submit that I am such a one, can make anti-religious, anti-theist, and atheist arguments. After all, folks of faith hear them all the time. Belief and our relationship with the world is quite difficult to quantify, but I do believe a convincing and compelling character can be made. However, will the design team find it useful to do so? If the request is for a player character atheist priest, that's a lot of specific dialogue.

 

Aw, what the hell, snarky can be good as long as we don't flame for several pages.

I don't think anybody wants to start a religious flamewar here. Plenty of other places to do that. No point in discussing real life faith.

I think what the rest of the atheists have been getting at is that, since the gods are more than just faith in this universe, that not believing in them would make you willfully stupid, hence why an atheist affiliation in the game would be nonsensical. However, I do think an 'anti-theist' that chooses not to worship the gods would be possible.

[rjshae]

I'm gonna be that guy that makes everyone roll their eyes but... the two women happen to be placed together, on the far right, closest to the giant tentacle monster approaching them while one of the women is having her clothes tugged down.

Yeah, yeah. I need to get my mind out of the gutter.

 

Right there with you pal... alas.

[metiman]

You could have athiest priests but they wouldn't have any spells. The gods power the spells. I think the power is just sort of channeled through the priest. Not a bad idea for a very dumb or insane NPC though. Could be interesting.

[hideo kuze]

BARBARIANS.... YEAHHHH!

Justin Bell... can we have a Barbarian theme song? :]

Something that puts Conan to shame.

 

I'll play a Barbarian on my first playthrough. And on the second one a Cypher.

 

 

Regarding Paypal... could you guys come up with something similar like what Revolution did?

http://revolution.co.uk/kickstarter/paypal

 

 

*achievement unlocked: new wallpaper*

It looks awesome.

kudos to Kieran Yanner!

 

 

Excellent update!

[Ieo]

Wait a shale-diggin' minute--I don't want to be spoiled too much, so knowing joinable NPC names and classes is already more than what I knew going into Baldur's Gate and PS:T and whatever--hopefully Obsidian doesn't give away their backgrounds or anything, but... Well, shoot, maybe I should.... stay.... away..... ........ can't......

[Gfted1]

For priests, will there be deities to choose from? Will character alignments restrict this? Will there be character alignments? Will the deity restrict and open up spells to use? Can you decline to worship a deity since the power comes within?

 

It's already been confirmed that there will be no alignment, only reputation with various factions, characters, etc.

 

Doesnt this refute that:

 

...though priests are restricted to invoking prayers that are aligned with their faith.

[Cantousent]

Well, there's a difference between an absolute, discernable, and universal alignment system and the tenets of faith. A deity will still have a code and require the adherrants to abide by the code. In that way, the diety requires that follows 'align' with his faith, but that's still not a universal 'alignment.' It's a personal rather than absolute alignment. DnD really screwed up the we grognards use the word, 'alignment.'

 

EDIT: I don't know why I try to tidy up my sloppy assed posts, but I guess I can't help myself.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Cantousent

[Knott]

Yeah, if a deity commands that "Thou shallt not defile the dead", then that would mean that the Priest could not cast "create undead" and it is likely that the priest will be opposed to the undead. It does not mean that the deity is Anti-evil, it means the deity is anti-undead.

 

The concept of undeath might not be exclusively evil either.

[Cantousent]

Yeah, if a deity commands that "Thou shallt not defile the dead", then that would mean that the Priest could not cast "create undead" and it is likely that the priest will be opposed to the undead. It does not mean that the deity is Anti-evil, it means the deity is anti-undead.

 

The concept of undeath might not be exclusively evil either.

I agree with this, and even more to the point, the followers probably believe the deity is good. The deity probably presents himself as good. If he saw the DnD alignment system, he'd probably say, "By Jove, I'm Lawful Good!" ...But in a world without an absolute and immediately discernable alignment, his assertion or belief won't make him good. In fact, the concept of good and evil will undoubtedly exist in the game world just as they exist as ideas throughout the history of humanity. The absence of alignment doesn't destroy the concept of good and evil. It just makes them debatable.

[choasrepeated]

I would like to point out that I can get behind atheists (or folks wanting to play atheists) in the game, but it does make it a bit snarky when my real life faith is disparaged in the process. Any educated person of faith, and I humbly submit that I am such a one, can make anti-religious, anti-theist, and atheist arguments. After all, folks of faith hear them all the time. Belief and our relationship with the world is quite difficult to quantify, but I do believe a convincing and compelling character can be made. However, will the design team find it useful to do so? If the request is for a player character atheist priest, that's a lot of specific dialogue.

 

Aw, what the hell, snarky can be good as long as we don't flame for several pages.

I don't think anybody wants to start a religious flamewar here. Plenty of other places to do that. No point in discussing real life faith.

I think what the rest of the atheists have been getting at is that, since the gods are more than just faith in this universe, that not believing in them would make you willfully stupid, hence why an atheist affiliation in the game would be nonsensical. However, I do think an 'anti-theist' that chooses not to worship the gods would be possible.

I agree, personally I have been trying to avoid discussing religion is anything but game terms (I think I failed to do that so twice; for that I apologise).

As for the not believing in good being willfully stupid I have to defer to the late Christopher Hitchens (I really dont want to start a fight based on this; its just he said it best).

 

When asked by if god did exist, and god returned and sat in judgement over Christopher how would he react.

Christopher's response was to reply that he would demand to know by what right this being believed it had moral authority over him.

 

Disbelief and even outright rejection in gods is not an alien concept for rpg worlds; from dragon lance, to the wheel of time, from conan, to cthulhu, from lord of the rings to narnia these questions are raised on all sides of the equation.

 

I really feel that the world of eternity would be richer for not excluding this subject by the simple act of baking in a belief system to a given class while granting the others so much flexibility.