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Can we have clerics in this game?


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And by clerics, I don't mean the priest class you see in many MMOs that a lot of people seems to be requesting for. I'm talking clerics similar to the clerics you see in D&D. Divine magic users who not only nuke, support, debuff and heal allies, but they can also be decent tanks or fighters as well thanks to their use of blunt weapons and the ability to use chain or plate mail. If you know your D&D history, then you are aware that clerics were based on crusades back in medieval Europe (while Paladins were based of the knights like Lancelot). If this game is going to be based on Infinity Engine games, then surely they mimic some of the style of classes.

 

I just swear, I'm going to be dissapointed if cleric class in this game is going to standing in the back wearing cloth and healing all the time.

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I'd like a priest or templar class that works completely differently from how they work in DnD and as the MMO version. Something like a Holy Warrior type who instead of casting spells like a mage instead has specific powers granted him either by his god or faith, able to harm incorporeal spirits with his normal attacks, resist supernatural effects better, etc. I know this sounds a lot like a Paladin, but then Paladins to me are closer to what clerics should be anyway minus the warhorse stuff and more preaching.

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As someone who really enjoys playing healing classes is most class-based games, and who rather dislikes archetypal paladins, iThink some alternative approaches could be interesting.

 

 

One class could be more of a herbalist/spiritual person, like a druid who can transform into animal/spirit forms and make poultices not available via normal alchemy for positive effects, less involved in directly healing allies but maybe more buffs and healing AoEs.

 

Another might be the more traditional priest but wearing plate (wizards will be wearing it, why not?) but wade in with magic in one hand and a mace in the other-- they shouldn't just be a tank with healing, though. They should be limited in their output and healing. Perhaps with the soul system, the more they are healing and protecting others with their magic the more susceptible they'll be to direct attacks? This means they can be formidable when defending only themselves but aren't horribly menacing attacking, whereas when they're overextended covering a 6+ adventurer party they'll be at their most vulnerable and attackers might get a multiplier on all their damage? Their heals should be more direct kind of clicking another party member and selecting something to throw however many hit-points their way, as well as buffs that boost their self defense.

 

Thirdly, I think something like Guild Wars dervish-- their "armor" is more ritual and colorful with metal for accents more than protection, and their lack of self defense is part of their faith. Their God will defend them, while they attack. In keeping with what seems to be the P:E spirit they could wear whatever kind of armor they pleased, but this would be less true to their "inner selves" or some such and thus their spiritual abilities are lacking. They would be the ones striking down lots of undead* with fast moving exotic weapons etc as well as healing others. I think they could be more about illusion, as well, with smoke screens and such enhanced by their God. Their healing would be a mix of the direct casting of the "cleric" type and the AoEs of the druid. Buffs would probably be more about making their allies faster and more agile rather than more able to take a beating.

 

 

Bugsidian gets brownie bugs if they make these all one class using alternate paths to the same basic thing through different religious\cultural perspectives.

 

*Anyone else think it's cool when healing hurts undead-- and that it would be especially interesting to then have an undead companion (not decomposing exactly, think kind of The Nameless One from P:T or perhaps Auron from FFX) whose health was significant but who couldn't be healed, or indeed revived, by normal means?

CORSAIR, n. A politician of the seas. ~The Devil's Dictionary

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I do agree that a Cleric or Priest needs to not be the party member that has to spend each second using healing spells (Dungeon Siege anyone). The Priest can heal and remove diseases or poisons after the battle or jump in th heat of battle if someone is going to fall, but let him do some fighting during combat.

Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story.

- Steven Erikson

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I like the idea of a slightly more defense oriented magic using character that gets his power from his god. Whether that is actually a called a cleric I don't care. I think the distinction between offensive and defensive magic is useful though. Of course if it doesn't fit with the story or setting then it's not a necessity.

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"Bugsidian"?

 

A term of endearment for Obsidian.

 

You could also call them "Patchsidian," because they do patch faithfully as well, but that's not nearly as cute.

 

However, now that they're working at their own pace rather than as mercenaries they may be able to put that particular mar on their reputation to rest: I'd still like to seem them do everything they can and patch the bugs later than do something overly safe for fear of time constraints, though.

 

I like the idea of a slightly more defense oriented magic using character that gets his power from his god. Whether that is actually a called a cleric I don't care. I think the distinction between offensive and defensive magic is useful though. Of course if it doesn't fit with the story or setting then it's not a necessity.

 

Indeed, so much of this is going to be going off the lore we hardly know anything about yet it's kind of all just shots in the dark-- but then, this is a "speculation" board, so why wait? Maybe the devs will see something they like :geek:

Edited by Azrayel

CORSAIR, n. A politician of the seas. ~The Devil's Dictionary

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I would be very surprised if this game did not have clerics, they are a one of the base classes. Fighters, Thiefs, Mages, Clerics and their derivatives have been in all of the IE games.

 

Bugsidian gets brownie bugs if they make these all one class using alternate paths to the same basic thing through different religious\cultural perspectives.

Oh, look. A Troll.

 

Listen: It is NOT Obsidian's fault if a Publisher decides to release a game before the bugs are ironed out. Fallout: New Vegas ran like crap because of "Bugthesda" and not because of Obsidian.

:closed:

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Tim did mention a priest today in Update #12, but he might have been speaking hypothetically.

 

Reading body language, I think he all but confirmed some type of cleric-like class. It really is a staple in RPGs of old, however, and the more I hear about this new world they're creating, the more it sounds like D&D (with guns). Which to me is a good thing as I love that system.

 

Now, whether there will be sub-categories like monks, paladins, etc, obviously we don't know. But clearly if there are souls and multiple Gods running rampant and mucking around with stuff, it's safe to assume some kind of holy smiting will be needed in clerical form. Just as long as they're not solely a buff class. I'd love heavy armor, too, if we're voting.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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Bugsidian gets brownie bugs if they make these all one class using alternate paths to the same basic thing through different religious\cultural perspectives.

Oh, look. A Troll.

 

Listen: It is NOT Obsidian's fault if a Publisher decides to release a game before the bugs are ironed out. Fallout: New Vegas ran like crap because of "Bugthesda" and not because of Obsidian.

 

Not necessarily true. The developer is responsible for planning and managing the work (and if necessary limiting its scope) such that a game can be completed within the allowed budget and time frame.

 

I'm looking forward to PE as a chance for Obsidian to prove itself, because frankly it seems to me that they deserve their infamy based on what I've played of their games.

 

Also, it isn't reasonable to call Azrayel a troll based on a single throwaway line given that the post includes several paragraphs of constructive, on-topic thought. People throw that term around too loosely. Also, see his subsequent post explaining the use of the nickname.

Edited by ddillon
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Well, then Azrayel should phrase his statements better. This is certainly not the right place to insult this awesome studio.

 

Not necessarily true. The developer is responsible for planning and managing the work (and if necessary limiting its scope) such that a game can be completed within the allowed budget and time frame.

 

No it is the Publishers fault, especially in the case with New Vegas. Bethesda released the game ahead of plan, that is the main reason that it was so buggy.

Edited by dlux

:closed:

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I'd be terribly surprised if we didn't see the primary class archetypes, since we're already seeing the primary races. They may have interesting flavors or customizations available, however.

"Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
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They have three classes listed on the Wiki and it says that there will be 7 all together + the developers (plan) on having sub classes. So assuming Cleric is one of the classes, it will have sub classes or 'kits' to pick from. Speculation of course, I have no idea if that's how it will be, but it's a pretty good bet. And even if it doesn't, expect mods to be out for this game within the first year to add wanted and extra content. The modding community for video games is pretty impressive as of late, and the amount of amazing detailed graphics/artistry and game play value from the modding community is a blessing. I know that when I play, pretty much any rpg on my computer, I always end up modding it. This game should be no exception.

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I only want to see clrics in the game if they can do something interesting with them that is neither a D&D cleric nor a D&D paladin. I really want this game to get away from D&D cliches and archetypes wherever possible or at least re-think them. Possibly if they create a class that deals mostly in curses/ hexes, plagues and other forms of divine smiting....more of a class that can lead to being either a divine champion or shaman/mystic.

 

I also don't particularly like having multiple sources of magic. Since souls power magic, I think that divine should be more about boons, curses, summons, visions, sacred & profane knowledge while healing should be accessible in some way to all classes.

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Not necessarily true. The developer is responsible for planning and managing the work (and if necessary limiting its scope) such that a game can be completed within the allowed budget and time frame.

I recall a time when RPGs were never released on schedule. Because RPGs are hard to make.

 

Games should be released "when they're done." That used to be BioWare's standard, years ago.

God used to be my co-pilot, but then we crashed in the Andes and I had to eat him.

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why "cleric?" rpg cleric is a d&d oddity. a priest (gender-neutral) that can be casting spells and can't use swords? is the kinda thing that probable gets a special chapter in the malleus maleficarum.

 

am suggesting that obsidian drop the link 'tween priests and healing magic... and the repelling o' undead and demons. exorcist ain't some kinda sacrament either-- is a lay occupation. want healing mages or alchemists or arcane scienists? why not, but don't limit to priests... and definitely don't limit to "cleric."

 

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Well, then Azrayel should phrase his statements better. This is certainly not the right place to insult this awesome studio.

 

Not necessarily true. The developer is responsible for planning and managing the work (and if necessary limiting its scope) such that a game can be completed within the allowed budget and time frame.

 

No it is the Publishers fault, especially in the case with New Vegas. Bethesda released the game ahead of plan, that is the main reason that it was so buggy.

 

The nickname is not derived from NV, and in my own playing of the game (I didn't get it until a month or so after it came out) it was fun and no bugs occurred. Obsidian just has a history of rushed releases, dating back to the Black Isle days, because of what you said: publishers control release schedules and part of why they did a Kickstarter is it lets them pick their own release horizon.

 

Horribly sorry if you took the phrase to mean iDislike Obsidian, KotOR 2 and NV are mainstays of my library which iReplay with great frequence and I really agree with the opinions of their designers like Chris. That's why I'm here.

 

OT:

 

It would be interesting to see a "healing" class or character whose method of rejuvenating others was sacrificing their own health: something big like 10 pts healed to 1 pt lost, but it would make them more vulnerable without needlessly relegating them to robes in the back and could really make for an interesting companion--

 

What sort of person dedicates their life to learning how to drain their own vitality for the sake of healing others? Is it studied, are they born with it racially or otherwise, is it hoisted upon them involuntarily as part of some rite? The curse of a cruel god? What's the toll on their psych over time, and what if they decide they're actually theologically or otherwise opposed to it later in life? Could be a nice break from the typical priest type character, but then, what Obsidian character is typical?

Edited by Azrayel

CORSAIR, n. A politician of the seas. ~The Devil's Dictionary

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I would prefer a 'holy' class that deals in being the hand of their god. Since the gods are obfuscating the nature of souls and like manipulating mere mortals, the clerics could posess illusion and enchantment magics!

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