Translations

[norolim]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I thought it was arranged that Russian and Polish translations are going to be completed by the some 3rd party distributor/localisation.

Correct. That's why the Polish ans Rusians stopped voting a long time ago, and why Italians are now no. one. Before this was announced the results of the poll were 1. Poland, 2. Russia 3. Italy. Whis of course doesn't mean that PE shouldn't be translated to Italian. But I'm pretty confident that it will eventually. So, keep up your support for that, but please do it in well mannered way.

 

We're talking about over 4 MILION DOLLARS for this project. Record for videogames in Kickstarter and 3rd in overall

The goal to START the game was 1.1 MIL

 

Are you saying to me that Obsidian can't invest 1000 dollars in a text translation?

Ha! I'm afraid $1000 is a bit too little to fund a professional translation of the amount of text this game is going to have. For that money you could possibly convince an amateur to attempt a translation (mind you attempt not do) and the result would almost certainly be disastrous. So, no. You don't want a $1000 translation of Eternity. I'd say a $10 000 budget would be a minimum.

 

Oh, and it's CD Projekt RED

[f5f9]

the silence of obsidian on the Italian translation is increasingly irritating

Don't be obnoxious....

I've always been a fan of obsidian (black isle as I was) and I bought all of their games, but now I feel like a "lover betrayed", their indifference towards Italy offends me

[VenomSdM]

Sorry for misswriting of CD Projekt RED, and yes 10.000 dollars are not a big deal when you have 4.1 Milions

[svartelric]

Learn English.

This.

 

I speak 6 languages, I don't need any of that, nor any other non native english speaker on this forum; you, on the other hand, probably only speak english and I don't even know at what level. I'm not concerned about me, I can play and usually enjoy more a game in its original language; but considering that Torment is relatively unknown in Italy due to an italian translation certainly is alarming (a fan made mod exists, but its fairly recent).

Keep in mind that Italy is a very large market for videogames. Also, if you can reply in Italian, do so, otherwise you can shut up and pretend I'm not here, I don't need that attitude, thank you.

[Bill Gates' Son]

If the "Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Portuguese" markets would be interested in a old style RPG like Project Eternity maybe their "voices" would be stronger here, in the official forums.

 

Not when you consider that great majority of them don't speak English, which is the official language of the forum. They probably have their own forums for discussing the game where they can do it in their own language.

 

I would agree on chinise, but not on others.

Japans and Koreans know very well english language, but they are more confortable in JRPG rather than a typical occidental RPG: how many people there have played Baldur's Gate instead of Final Fantasy?

Portuguese players had really few games translated in the past, so this one can't be mandatory.

 

MULTI5 is not a standard, but is for sure the most used format in videogames industry, and yes the italian is in.

 

What about supporting a comunity who is here and claim for attention instead an ipotetical comunity that hides itself in non-english forums?

 

I selected Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Portuguese.

 

 

You voted for something that you're not interested in at all. Why?!

What's more, we know that in Japan and in Korea WRPG are not very popular. They prefer Final Fantasy or Starcraft to Planescape or Arcanum, for example. All we know that.

 

Honestly, anything is possible over here. Fallout 3 did very well over here for an American game. Of course, I guess that had to do with Marketing.

 

Honestly, change the ingame artwork to an anime style during a localization, and it may do ok over here.

[evdk]

Learn English.

This.

 

 

I speak 6 languages, I don't need any of that, nor any other non native english speaker on this forum; you, on the other hand, probably only speak english and I don't even know at what level. I'm not concerned about me, I can play and usually enjoy more a game in its original language; but considering that Torment is relatively unknown in Italy due to an italian translation certainly is alarming (a fan made mod exists, but its fairly recent).

Keep in mind that Italy is a very large market for videogames. Also, if you can reply in Italian, do so, otherwise you can shut up and pretend I'm not here, I don't need that attitude, thank you.

I don't care if you translate it, personally, I just don't want Obsidian invest any money in it.

Edited October 18, 2012 by evdk

[DocDoomII]

the silence of obsidian on the Italian translation is increasingly irritating

Don't be obnoxious....

I've always been a fan of obsidian (black isle as I was) and I bought all of their games, but now I feel like a "lover betrayed", their indifference towards Italy offends me

I've had bad experiences with translations in the past and I've come to prefer the original language (when I understand it) in both videogames, movies and books.

Plus there are a tons of double meanings that can't be translated.

Many things get lost in translations.

[Vaesark]

Honestly, anything is possible over here. Fallout 3 did very well over here for an American game. Of course, I guess that had to do with Marketing.

 

Honestly, change the ingame artwork to an anime style during a localization, and it may do ok over here.

 

"Yo-ge, kuso-ge"

 

I highly doubt they would even attempt such a radical change just for the Japanese market, which is know for being very hostile to anything non-Japanese.

 

Anyway, I added my vote to Italian. I was quite surprised that it was not included along with the French, German and Spanish languages on the stretch goal.

[Veeno]

Learn English.

Because translation is free, right?

 

So translation is not free, but learning a foreign language is?

 

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to learn a foreign language once you're over twelve years old, let alone twenty or higher?

 

It would take at least a year (if the person learning the language is VERY talented at learning languages or speaks a relatively similar language like Dutch or German) and usually much more than that of learning a foreign language from scratch until someone who is over twenty years old got to the point where they could play the game without any language barrier problems. And let me tell you, if learning that language is not a part of your regular elementary and high-school education, that costs a LOT of money.

 

I'm not even going to talk about how ridiculous it is to suggest that someone should learn a foreign language just so they could play a video game. I believe that is self-explanatory.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Veeno

[Bill Gates' Son]

Learn English.

Because translation is free, right?

 

So translation is not free, but learning a foreign language is?

 

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to learn a foreign language once you're over twelve years old, let alone twenty or higher?

 

It would take at least a year (if the person learning the language is VERY talented at learning languages or speaks a relatively similar language like Dutch or German) and usually much more than that of learning a foreign language from scratch until someone who is over twenty years old got to the point where they could play the game without any language barrier problems. And let me tell you, if learning that language is not a part of your regular elementary and high-school education, that costs a LOT of money.

 

I'm not even going to talk about how ridiculous it is to suggest that someone should learn a foreign language just so they could play a video game. I believe that is self-explanatory.

 

Money has nothing to do with learning a language, it's time and dedication. I learned Spanish while I was college in the US, but I pretty much learn Japanese myself before moving to Japan. I paid about $80 USD for a book, but that's hardly "expensive."

 

Nevertheless, i agree with you. Learning a language isn't easy. It took me nearly a year and a half before I was able to speak Japanese somewhat clearly, and I'm still learning.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Bill Gates' Son

[DocDoomII]

So translation is not free, but learning a foreign language is?

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to learn a foreign language once you're over twelve years old, let alone twenty or higher?

It would take at least a year (if the person learning the language is VERY talented at learning languages or speaks a relatively similar language like Dutch or German) and usually much more than that of learning a foreign language from scratch until someone who is over twenty years old got to the point where they could play the game without any language barrier problems. And let me tell you, if learning that language is not a part of your regular elementary and high-school education, that costs a LOT of money.

 

I'm not even going to talk about how ridiculous it is to suggest that someone should learn a foreign language just so they could play a video game. I believe that is self-explanatory.

I agree, to a degree.

 

I never understood squat from my english lessons in high school, still, there were games that I wanted to play and were english only.

So I started to play them and slowly learned from the games themselves.

My first game was FFVII and that was hellishly difficult (I'm looking at you, Barret!).

Now, even though I still do a lot of errors when I type something, I can play any kind of games in english without problems or external help (dictionary and such),

it took me few years, but well, it's well worth it.

[Veeno]

I agree, to a degree.

 

I never understood squat from my english lessons in high school, still, there were games that I wanted to play and were english only.

So I started to play them and slowly learned from the games themselves.

My first game was FFVII and that was hellishly difficult (I'm looking at you, Barret!).

Now, even though I still do a lot of errors when I type something, I can play any kind of games in english without problems or external help (dictionary and such),

it took me few years, but well, it's well worth it.

 

I'm pretty sure the English lessons you had in school definitely helped you anyway, even though you've gone through the core of the learning process on your own. You must've picked up some basics of the language from the lessons and a general nature of the structure of the language. After that it's all a matter of learning the vast vocabulary (IIRC you're Italian? Nearly all of Italian vocabulary is Latin and English derives a lot of its words from Latin as well so there's a bunch of shared vocabulary, you have to account for that having an easing effect as well) and picking up the details and minutiae of the grammar, and that is a much easier process when you already know the basics.

[DocDoomII]

I agree, to a degree.

 

I never understood squat from my english lessons in high school, still, there were games that I wanted to play and were english only.

So I started to play them and slowly learned from the games themselves.

My first game was FFVII and that was hellishly difficult (I'm looking at you, Barret!).

Now, even though I still do a lot of errors when I type something, I can play any kind of games in english without problems or external help (dictionary and such),

it took me few years, but well, it's well worth it.

 

I'm pretty sure the English lessons you had in school definitely helped you anyway, even though you've gone through the core of the learning process on your own. You must've picked up some basics of the language from the lessons and a general nature of the structure of the language. After that it's all a matter of learning the vast vocabulary (IIRC you're Italian? Nearly all of Italian vocabulary is Latin and English derives a lot of its words from Latin as well so there's a bunch of shared vocabulary, you have to account for that having an easing effect as well) and picking up the details and minutiae of the grammar, and that is a much easier process when you already know the basics.

Yes I'm italian, and yes, the two languages have some similarities. That is somewhat convenient.

Though during school tests I never scored more than 4 or 5 (where 6 is the minimum to pass). So I really don't know how much it helped (and it was only for 3 years).

[evdk]

Learn English.

Because translation is free, right?

 

So translation is not free, but learning a foreign language is?

The first would be paid by Obsidian, the second by yourself. I don't care what you invest your money in, I merely opposed using the kickstarter funds on translation. I lost so stop dragging me back to the debate just because Italian ended on the cutting room floor.

[Veeno]

I lost so stop dragging me back to the debate just because Italian ended on the cutting room floor.

 

Sorry, I wasn't here when this thread began and I just saw someone quote that and found it difficult not to reply.

 

I shall commence the process of shutting in the upward direction.

[JOG]

Yes, on release. The only game i can think of that wasn't translated was Daggerfall.

 

Most games in the 80ies weren't translated at all, and the first game that was translated on release was Ultima 8. That Daggerfall wasn't translated is a good thing, There was a "german" version, (english game with a german manual) where they translated "missiile weapons" to "Raketenwaffen" - (rocket weapons) just imagine the rest of the game...

 

The german BG1 translation using random dialects where the english version used accents was so hillarious it was more satirical than anything else.

 

There's a subtle difference in understanding a language and speaking it fluently. A huge portion of the self-proclaimed foreign English speakers is not capable of understanding everything they read or hear. In a text-based game focusing on complete immersion and built around an intricate plot it is vital for the player to be able to fully grasp the narrative - not simply understand it; That way you don't get to appreciate all its colour and flavour. It's not only a matter of the game's playablity, but it's quality in the eyes of the potential customer, and that sense of high polish and quality will probably be lost on people without a reasonable command of the English language.

 

And that's the problem I have with translations, too much will be lost without anything I can do against it. the narrative suffers badly from mediocre translation, and more often than not you need to know english pretty well to be able to translate back and figure out the original meaning. (Heck I can remember the german version of the old Lord of the Rings crpg having a riddle that was completely unsolvable unless you actually were able to translate back and figure out what was really meant, that was the point where I decided that I'm better off playing the english version, and blaming myself when I get stuck due to language barriers.)

 

So my advice: Learn english, it has more advantages than just being able to experience games, movies and novels the way the authors intended them to be experienced.

 

If you want to support languages "fairly" (i.e. based on number of native speakers) it should probably go like this:

Mandarin - Russian - Spanish - French - English - German - Portugese - Italian...

 

Realistically speaking: with English, German, French, Spanish, Itallian, Russian and Japanese you should cover the vast majority of gamers.

Edited October 18, 2012 by JOG

[Veeno]

If you want to support languages "fairly" (i.e. based on native speakers) it should probably go like this:

Mandarin - Russian - Spanish - French - English - German - Portugese - Italian

 

https://en.wikipedia...native_speakers

 

Your list is a bit off - Portuguese is way ahead of Russian, French and German, Russian is not ahead of Spanish, etc., etc.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Veeno

[VenomSdM]

As italian old gamer i have to say that the translation (i mean the text, speaking is another matter) was alway more than good for me.

Even the old Baldur's Gate 1 had a fair italian translation (yes maybe some dialagues where "strange" but overall good)

And as someone mentioned before, we're talking about an RPG where the athmosphere is very important: the full understanding of all you'are reading is quite fundamental!

 

@Veeno

 

You assumption regarding population and languages is weak.

Not all portoguese speakin people are an RPG fan, even not all the chinese are interested in videogames!

 

it is better to serve 500 rpg fan in a county with 10.000 population, or 10 rpg fan in a 500.000 population?

I hope you catch my meaning

Edited October 18, 2012 by VenomSdM

[JOG]

https://en.wikipedia...native_speakers

 

Your list is a bit off - Portuguese is way ahead of Russian, French and German, Russian is not ahead of Spanish, etc., etc.

 

I just did a rough estimate and completely forgot about Brazil

 

Anyway, my point is that A) translations suck. and B) the languages to translate to aren't chosen fairly. Games usually get translated for the big 4 of western Europe: German, French, Spanish and Italian, not because of fairness or number of native speakers, but because of potential customers. Russia and the former USSR states are a big new market, but the other languages, no matter how widely used, get no love, out of simple business considerations.

 

When the big greedy publishers don't support the other languages, Obsidian with their still limited budget should consider this very carefully.

Edited October 18, 2012 by JOG

[Veeno]

When the big greedy publishers don't support the other languages, Obsidian with their still limited budget should consider this very carefully.

 

Big greedy publishers? You mean those same guys who would just laugh at the idea of funding something like Project Eternity?

Edited October 18, 2012 by Veeno

[Vilhelm]

I would agree on chinise, but not on others.

Japans and Koreans know very well english language, but they are more confortable in JRPG rather than a typical occidental RPG: how many people there have played Baldur's Gate instead of Final Fantasy?

What about supporting a comunity who is here and claim for attention instead an ipotetical comunity that hides itself in non-english forums?

 

I don't know which Japan you are referring to, definitely the Japan I've been living in for the past five years or so.

 

I work for a major gaming publisher, surrounded by hardcore gamers from morning to evening every day. Of the 300 or so people in my entire department, you can count proficient English speakers on one hand and still have fingers left (myself included in the count). Hardly anyone considers even picking up Western games unless they are localized, even the most hardcore of them, unless the dialogue is severely limited. PE being a very dialogue heavy adventure would require full localization in Japanese to be even CONSIDERED by Japanese gamers.

 

Localizing games is VERY cost effective... you will definitely get your investment back if you do so in certain markets.

 

I myself would love to have an Icelandic translation. It would definitely NOT be financially viable, but considering the limited number of people, it would not only give the game a spotlight in Iceland, but it would also be considered a cultural heritage due to the limited number of video games released in the Icelandic language.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Vilhelm

[Usul]

I've voted for italian language

[Bill Gates' Son]

I agree, to a degree.

 

I never understood squat from my english lessons in high school, still, there were games that I wanted to play and were english only.

So I started to play them and slowly learned from the games themselves.

My first game was FFVII and that was hellishly difficult (I'm looking at you, Barret!).

Now, even though I still do a lot of errors when I type something, I can play any kind of games in english without problems or external help (dictionary and such),

it took me few years, but well, it's well worth it.

 

I'm pretty sure the English lessons you had in school definitely helped you anyway, even though you've gone through the core of the learning process on your own. You must've picked up some basics of the language from the lessons and a general nature of the structure of the language. After that it's all a matter of learning the vast vocabulary (IIRC you're Italian? Nearly all of Italian vocabulary is Latin and English derives a lot of its words from Latin as well so there's a bunch of shared vocabulary, you have to account for that having an easing effect as well) and picking up the details and minutiae of the grammar, and that is a much easier process when you already know the basics.

 

You basically ignored my post; I gave you proof that it's possible to learn another language without paying money for it. I think you underestimate the power of person learning things on their on. I'll admit that it's a bit more difficult, but if you have the time to learn, then it's not as hard as you think.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Bill Gates' Son

[Veeno]

I like how you basically ignored my post, when I gave you proof that it's possible to learn another language without paying money for it.

 

I just thought it was obvious that not everyone is capable of that. Some people need to actually go to classes to learn a language, and that does cost money.

 

There, happy?

[VenomSdM]

Bump up until Obsidian give us an official position.

Italians please help me in this matter, we deserve at least a response!