Update #8: New Digital Tier, Novella by Chris Avellone, and Translations at $2.2M

[dlux]

In the "Song of Ice and Fire" French translation, we have some French names and some English. It's horrid. It seems the names are coming from different universes.

 

For german they translated all the names and it sounds horrid as well! I think most german speaking players will want the names of places and people to stay in the original language.

No.

 

You just can't assume that everybody speaks as good English as you or me. It is absolutely correct that they translated the names. A few of the translations were unfortunate, but most of them were absolutely fine.

 

What about "The Witcher" for example ("The Witcher" = "Wiedźmin" in Polish)? If the names were left in Polish, then they would seem extremely strange to me and I would also probably not even be able to pronounce them.

[Uncanny Danny]

Hopefully we'll see the large amount of European donations that were promised now that translations have been announced. There's been comments stressing that this will prove to be a huge source of income - now's the time to put your money where your mouth is. Let's see that Kickstar Roster ramp up.

[The Dark One Avoozl]

No.

 

You just can't assume that everybody speaks as good English as you or me. It is absolutely correct that they translated the names. A few of the translations were unfortunate, but most of them were absolutely fine.

 

Oh then why not complain that they didn't translate the title of the game? Radioaktiver Niederschlag: Neu Vegas

 

Awesome.

 

What about "The Witcher" for example ("The Witcher" = "Wiedźmin" in Polish)? If the names were left in Polish, then they would seem extremely strange to me and I would also probably not even be able to pronounce them.

 

Because no one here said that professions shouldn't be translated.

[Ieo]

UM! UM! Dear Mister Avellone, I don't know if anyone has brought this up yet because 12 pp of forum posts is kind of a lot, but...

 

For the novella, would you please consider using the female Dwarf ranger (concept gal) as a major character?

[dlux]

No.

 

You just can't assume that everybody speaks as good English as you or me. It is absolutely correct that they translated the names. A few of the translations were unfortunate, but most of them were absolutely fine.

 

Oh then why not complain that they didn't translate the title of the game? Radioaktiver Niederschlag: Neu Vegas

 

Awesome.

Game titles are practically always in English for marketing reasons.

 

What about "The Witcher" for example ("The Witcher" = "Wiedźmin" in Polish)? If the names were left in Polish, then they would seem extremely strange to me and I would also probably not even be able to pronounce them.

 

Because no one here said that professions shouldn't be translated.

That was only an example. what about the name of every town, name, monster etc. in The Witcher? Do you think it would have been better if all of this was not translated and kept in Polish so that it was as cryptic as possible for people in countries other than Poland?

[funcroc]

Polina Hristova's blog updated

 

On today's update for the kickstarter they featured one of my character Edair for Project Eternity.

 

For those of you who don't know about project eternity please check out our kick starter page: http://www.kickstart...roject-eternity

[The Dark One Avoozl]

That was only an example. what about the name of every town, name, monster etc. in The Witcher? Do you think it would have been better if all of this was not translated and kept in Polish so that it was as cryptic as possible for people in countries other than Poland?

 

Look. I said it several times before in this thread. I'm saying it again. If they manage to translate it WELL I'm fine with it. But most of the time. Even in high budget games. They screw it up somehow. So unless they can make sure they get Tolkieneque quality level translations just leave it be. People can live with places and names being in English. They have to do that in the real world too.

[Alc Cides]

No very interesting. I'm a Spanish language speaker and for me the translation is a waste of resources. It's like movies the original language always is better.

If the translations were for fully voiced dialogue (which thankfully isn't going to be in the game), i'd agree with you. I've played some games where English isn't the original language, and the voice acting has been terrible. Gothic being one example.

 

But text translations? I really don't see why the translated versions can't be just as good as original English version of a game that mostly contains written dialogue.

 

The difference is on subtle details about the translation as example a word: weird. That word in Spanish has at least four different words to be translated: raro, extraño, sobrecogedor, tenebroso but you have differences between the 4 words, in some context you can use just one, or two, no more. If the translator choose the wrong one you can end with a different meaning than the original. That's is why the translation by any automatic translator are so funny. The translation has to be of very high quality and the person has to know about fantasy and game settings to make a good job.

[dlux]

That was only an example. what about the name of every town, name, monster etc. in The Witcher? Do you think it would have been better if all of this was not translated and kept in Polish so that it was as cryptic as possible for people in countries other than Poland?

 

Look. I said it several times before in this thread. I'm saying it again. If they manage to translate it WELL I'm fine with it. But most of the time. Even in high budget games. They screw it up somehow. So unless they can make sure they get Tolkieneque quality level translations just leave it be. People can live with places and names being in English. They have to do that in the real world too.

You have an extremely subjective way of viewing things - you need to learn to be more objective.

 

Just because you don't like the way that some of the translations phonetically sound, does not mean that it should not be translated at all. Names like "Samuel Cooke", "Dimitri", "Las Vegas", "Grigorio" or "Narnia" should of course not be translated, the latter actually can't be translated at all, but everything else should be... like creature names. etc.

 

Translating "Crimson Caravan Company" to "Karmesinrote Karawanenkompanie" is indeed rather unfortunate, but it is better than not translating it at all. Oh yeah, "Whiterun" sounds just as bad as "Weißlauf" imo.

Edited September 26, 2012 by dlux

[Althernai]

18mio is just a sales number of around 600k... which should be easily doable considering steam, gog and 3 different "plattforms" (win, osx and linux). of course valve and cd projekt take their piece for distributing. dunno if all the naysayers are really that short-sighted but it's a substantial fact that if there's no support for native languages the sales numbers will be much lower eventually.

 

and again, it's not about the amount of pledges but the long run of the game...

600K copies sold would be a massive success given the initial investment. Regarding the long term: I am not sure what you have to back up that "fact". It is not implausible, but it's far from a certainty. It's entirely possible that most of the people in continental Europe who would buy this game already speak English and while a version in their native language is nice, it has little impact on whether they would buy it or not. As a stretch goal, the translations have failed quite miserably thus far (no noticeable impact on the rate of either the number of pledges or the money pledged). It stands to reason that there is some correlation between the number of people interested in a certain of feature who contribute on Kickstarter in response to its inclusion and the number of the same people who will ultimately buy the game depending on the inclusion of this feature.

 

The Polish version of Baldur's Gate II alone sold over 100 thousand copies

This does not bode well. Baldur's Gate II was a AAA, cutting edge game for it's time and not only that, but it was the sequel to a very successful game. Poland is a little bit special because of CDProjekt, but based on that number, I would assume 10-20K copies sold tops.

[Nakia]

Is anyone taking into consideration that if you do not read English you may not know that Obsidian is going to translate the game? How many foreign language game magazines have reported that Obsidian is even making this game? Has any one seen or heard of a report that Obsidian is translating the game? A non-English report.

[Cantousent]

Is anyone taking into consideration that if you do not read English you may not know that Obsidian is going to translate the game? How many foreign language game magazines have reported that Obsidian is even making this game? Has any one seen or heard of a report that Obsidian is translating the game? A non-English report.

I think this is a great point. If you know of any publications, why not just send them the good word. Even a letter to the editor of the game mag or a suggestion for a story would be great. In fact, if you know an Italian magazine, you could send word about the prospect of getting an Italian translation. I don't know if it will do any good, but I know it won't hurt. ...And maybe Obsidian will get a nibble from them and do a story which will be free advertising.

[Marco Antonio]

Please, consider an italian translation for this project. Wasteland 2 will be translated in italian. Large part of the game has five main languages. It is not fair that italian people can't have this game in their language, instead of other West European States. Come on.

[The Dark One Avoozl]

You have an extremely subjective way of viewing things - you need to learn to be more objective.

 

No. I don't.. Not really. Cause translation preferences is entirely just a subjective argument no matter which side. And I so don't care when people say there are "rules" about it. Who made them? When? And why?

 

 

Just because you don't like the way that some of the translations phonetically sound, does not mean that it should not be translated at all. Names like "Samuel Cooke", "Dimitri", "Las Vegas", "Grigorio" or "Narnia" should of course not be translated, the latter actually can't be translated at all, but everything else should be... like creature names. etc.

 

I already went over this. And seriously. We have 2012. English is taught in elementary school here in Germany already for years now. Not being able to comprehend a few names in English in this day and age is (sorry) kinda pathetic. Everyone I know has no problems with it and those that play games usually prefer English names.

 

And before you come in here with your Polish Witcher arguments again. Who the **** on the planet speaks Polish outside of Poland? Oh wait. No one. Who speaks English? Lots and lots of people all across the globe. Even in countries were English is not the main language. As noted above. Elementary school. Germany. Really comparing Polish to a world language is flawed.

 

Translating "Crimson Caravan Company" to "Karmesinrote Karawanenkompanie" is indeed rather unfortunate, but it is better than not translating it at all. Oh yeah, "Whiterun" sounds just as bad as "Weißlauf" imo.

 

No. It's not better than not translating it at all. Oh hey I can play now the card everyone already did. Since it's a game set in the USA they shouldn't translate names since it breaks immersion as the translated names aren't really fitting to the setting.

 

On a more serious note. I love this double standard that people expect to get everything translated in their fantasy worlds (be they sci-fi now or fantasy) but they're fine with all the English names that get thrown at them in the real world and don't demand a translation.

 

Oh oh. I can imagine it already. Petition letter to the German news. "We, the German public, don't want to hear "World Trade Center" on the news. Please translate it to German. Sincerely, Germany."

[Simonosaurus]

Is anyone taking into consideration that if you do not read English you may not know that Obsidian is going to translate the game? How many foreign language game magazines have reported that Obsidian is even making this game? Has any one seen or heard of a report that Obsidian is translating the game? A non-English report.

Yesterday I sent 2 mails to the same magazine (the most popular francophone website on video games, maybe 1 or 2 millions of pages consulted everyday). One mail to the redaction, and the other to one of their journalist who is fond of RPGs and makes almost all the reviews of RPGs.

 

But for now, no news from them. No article or response.

It's weird though because actually they did 4 news about Project Eterntiy since its teasing.

I hope suppose it is just a matter of time before they make a fifth news about the translation.

 

However, we talk about the game in forums, so people are aware of last news, even if they don't read english.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Simonosaurus

[Darkath]

That was only an example. what about the name of every town, name, monster etc. in The Witcher? Do you think it would have been better if all of this was not translated and kept in Polish so that it was as cryptic as possible for people in countries other than Poland?

 

 

It really depends what the authors of the Names wanted them to be in the first place.

In english there is a fundamental issue because most of the english last names are translatable, especially in fantasy settings, authors love to give people surnames that gives a hint of where they were born, or about their status, personality, whatever.

 

In the Witcher, to follow your example, i don't think many last names were in polish from the beginning, of course Geralt z Rivii was translated into Geralt of Rivia in english and Geralt de Rive in french, but that's ok, because "z Rivii" is polish, Geralt is not, and Triss Merigold was Triss Merigold in Polish, English and French. The name was never intended to be translated whatsoever, same as most of the places in the game, i'm pretty sure they were fantasy names and not Polish names.

 

So often europeans settings can easily be translated into english without issue because Names can't be translated in most cases, but when you translate an english setting with its boatloads of Smith, Hightower, Coldstone or whatever. You'll run into translations issues. Should you preserve the original names or translate to give foreign readers the same hints as english readers ?

 

As a general principle, if you're going to write a book or make a game, and expect it to be translated, don't give your places, items and characters names that can be translated if you don't want your translators to come up with awkward writing.

 

I think that's an important point you should consider Mr Sawyer, Cain and Avelonne

Edited September 26, 2012 by Darkath

[Orchomene]

So often europeans settings can easily be translated into english without issue because Names can't be translated in most cases, but when you translate an english setting with its boatloads of Smith, Hightower, Coldstone or whatever. You'll run into translations issues. Should you preserve the original names or translate to give foreign readers the same hints as english readers ?

 

As a general principle, if you're going to write a book or make a game, and expect it to be translated, don't give your places, items and characters names that can be translated if you don't want your translators to come up with awkward writing.

 

I think that's an important point you should consider Mr Sawyer, Cain and Avelonne

 

I don't think it's a real issue. You translate Smith into Dupont in french. This is the cultural equivalent. Hightower can be translated into Hautetour easily because it sounds ok and can be a name in France.

What is difficult is to translate totally imaginary names from one language to another because you are not sure of what was the expected sound impact of the name. But even for that, professional translators can manage good jobs. If you look at translated books, outside of poetry and songs, translations are ok, at least in french. But french and english are quite close in sounds, so it's not that hard. German or polish into french is more difficult.

[Darkath]

So often europeans settings can easily be translated into english without issue because Names can't be translated in most cases, but when you translate an english setting with its boatloads of Smith, Hightower, Coldstone or whatever. You'll run into translations issues. Should you preserve the original names or translate to give foreign readers the same hints as english readers ?

 

As a general principle, if you're going to write a book or make a game, and expect it to be translated, don't give your places, items and characters names that can be translated if you don't want your translators to come up with awkward writing.

 

I think that's an important point you should consider Mr Sawyer, Cain and Avelonne

 

I don't think it's a real issue. You translate Smith into Dupont in french. This is the cultural equivalent. Hightower can be translated into Hautetour easily because it sounds ok and can be a name in France.

What is difficult is to translate totally imaginary names from one language to another because you are not sure of what was the expected sound impact of the name. But even for that, professional translators can manage good jobs. If you look at translated books, outside of poetry and songs, translations are ok, at least in french. But french and english are quite close in sounds, so it's not that hard. German or polish into french is more difficult.

 

Yeah but take the map of Project Eternity's world on the Kickstarter page, you see that there is lot of english words that are used, but how do you translate Dyrwood ? Dyrbois ? Dirbois ? Or the Blizzard way and try to translate "dyr" even though it's not a word (and come up with something like "Sombrebois" just for the sake of translating everything) ?

Same with Pearlwood i can't imagine something that don't sound silly like Bois Perlé (kinda gives a My Little Pony vibe). Godhammer => Dieumarteau ? Marteau des Dieux ? Come on this is really awful.

 

Now i have nothing against translating places which names are whole sentences (good luck with Court of Bowing Ashes, tho, it even sounds weird in english), but when a Name is just 2 english words stuck together and the translation is those 2 same words stuck together in german, french or whatever, it can't help but sound really silly.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Darkath

[Alc Cides]

One point not considered here is the difference between the same language on different countries. The american english is different with british english but the differences are greather for example in Spanish. The Spain Spanish is very different to the Mexican Spanish or the Argentian Spanish to the point one word in may country ( Argentina ) means "to have sex" and in Spain is just take something on hand so the truth is if they have to translate well the Spanish version they have to use a very "neutral" spanish but this can sound weird for all the countries. This is why I think the translations are so difficulto to achieved well. I prefer just to read English.

[Azzy]

Translation is actually one of the areas where I think the community can help the most. The script should be hosted in some form of collaborative setting and as players go though they can correct it per language it would also allow other unsupported languages to be added. There is the cost of maintaining and vetting the thing so you need trusted native speakers to give stuff the once over before it gets into a patch but I would think it an overall win. Particularly if you make using it a manual affair and just leave it to vet itself.

[Alc Cides]

Translation is actually one of the areas where I think the community can help the most. The script should be hosted in some form of collaborative setting and as players go though they can correct it per language it would also allow other unsupported languages to be added. There is the cost of maintaining and vetting the thing so you need trusted native speakers to give stuff the once over before it gets into a patch but I would think it an overall win. Particularly if you make using it a manual affair and just leave it to vet itself.

Your idea is great but I'm afraid has a problem: I don't want the fun to be spoiled at least for me. I want the game surprises me and If I read the text previously I'm not going to be suprised for the game.

If you are thinking in corrections after the game, well if I found a problem with translation while I'm playing well to me the damage is done. This is what I want avoid.

[Streamlock]

After lurking over a few KS projects, and even funding a couple, I had the bizzare idea that KS, at least in media centric projects (books,film,audiobook,video games/games) should have the option of splitting a project, or having individual goals.

 

For instance-

 

Project A hits it's initial goals. You have individual and seperate stand-alone stretch goals. This would work well for multi-language support. Pulling a number out of the air....70-90k for translation. Have 3-5 seperate goal areas....If the players want it in a language native to high piracy regions....erm Chzech or something-they can fund it upfront.

 

....Maybe something like that-people would probably just pull primary funding for specific funding. I'm sure you could structure it to avoid that kind of activity.

[dlux]

@The Dark One Avoozl:

 

Like I said, you have a very subjective ways of viewing things. You apparently expect everybody in Europe to speak good English just because you can. A translated version of the game is for people that do not speak English very well - that is why they game is translated. You do not seem to understand this.

 

Anyway, in New Vegas many things were not translated, like "Primm", "Sunset Sarsparilla", etc. Which is perfectly fine and correct. They only translated the stuff that needed to be translated, like "The Crimson Caravan Company" or enemy names, etc.

What if the game was in Germany? According to you they should not translate Deutschland, Schwarzwald or Bayern into English (Germany, Black Forest, Bavaria) because of immersion. But on the other hand you would argue that "nobody speaks ****ing German" and that is why it SHOULD be translated. Do you even know what you are talking about?

 

Anyway, if you don't like the fact that names of many creatures/enemies, places, etc. are translated, then play it in English. That is what I (usually) do too.

Edited September 26, 2012 by dlux

[tamimh]

Is that a whip?

There will be spanking! I can feel it.

 

T.

[Azzy]

As to my suggestion I meant that when folk play should they encounter an error make a note of it and go edit it online so that someone else playing later than them will see the fixed version. If you were really concerned of encountering spoilers store them up and correct them only when finished. You might get folks that after a play though are happy enough to read though the whole script and fix it. A good search system would certainly be beneficial though.

 

Obviously in the case of adding a new unsupported language would mean going though everything but such an undertaking would be an altruistic act anyway and given the authors of this game reading the stuff that you perhaps missed one way or another might be some recompense.