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How do you lie eyour protagonist  

327 members have voted

  1. 1. How do oyu like hte protagonist?

    • Destined by fate. Fortold by legends. I'm the CHOSE ONE!!!!
      15
    • Chosen or not, I'm Super-Special! Tremble before my unique power/linegae/whatever.
      53
    • Just a regular guy. Right place at the right time.
      198
    • Don't care.
      61


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He's just a regular guyyyyy... hes in the right place at the right time.... over and over again..... how is he so luckkkyyy... but hes such a regular guyyyy..... he's kinda dumb and smells kinda bad and gets constipated and has a bad back and gets rejected by women and yet and yet and yet there he is in the right place at the right time again... why does he always show up at the right time... he must be involved in these bad events somehow... lets kick his ass....

 

and this is the character, judging by multiple threads on this forum, and the poll in this topic, that most people want to play.

 

Seriously, people don't know what they want. They think they know, but they don't.

I think the poll just has some granularity unexplored. A person doesn't seem some magical boost of godly selection or lineage to be not a regular joe. He could just be the try-hardiest joe on the planet. As much an everyman as John McClane. The guy with guts.

 

Yes, indeed, and it can actually be extra fun if your "extraordinary" quality consists of "is willing to actually go out and TRY FIGHTING instead of sitting here on his ass bemoaning how hopeless it is". If most of the people in the world stand in the same place day in and day out asking passersby for help, you're extraordinary just because you can MOVE. If you're not extraordinary in some way, why aren't they doing the quest themselves instead of paying you to do it?


Grand Rhetorist of the Obsidian Order

If you appeal to "realism" about a video game feature, you are wrong. Go back and try again.

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...ya play ta be a badarse; whether ya be "Chosen" or jus' a good ol' epic arsekicker that came o' nuthin' but dirt an' attitude, ne'er settle fer anythin' less... :dancing:

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...


A long, long time ago, but I can still remember,
How the Trolling used to make me smile.
And I knew if I had my chance, I could egg on a few Trolls to "dance",
And maybe we'd be happy for a while.
But then Krackhead left and so did Klown;
Volo and Turnip were banned, Mystake got run out o' town.
Bad news on the Front Page,
BIOweenia said goodbye in a heated rage.
I can't remember if I cried
When I heard that TORN was recently fried,
But sadness touched me deep inside,
The day...Black Isle died.


For tarna, Visc, an' the rest o' the ol' Islanders that fell along the way

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How about the title, "I don't believe what a jerk that guy is." It's really alot better than "The Nameless One" or "Bhaalspawn".

Edited by septembervirgin

"This is what most people do not understand about Colbert and Silverman. They only mock fictional celebrities, celebrities who destroy their selfhood to unify with the wants of the people, celebrities who are transfixed by the evil hungers of the public. Feed us a Gomorrah built up of luminous dreams, we beg. Here it is, they say, and it looks like your steaming brains."

 

" If you've read Hart's Hope, Neveryona, Infinity Concerto, Tales of the Flat Earth, you've pretty much played Dragon Age."

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...I dunna git all the TNO hate in this thread...ain't a dev house out there that dunna wish theys games had a protagonist that be half as memorable as The Nameless One...makes me wonder 'bout this generation o' cRPG gamer...more's the pity... :shrugz:

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...


A long, long time ago, but I can still remember,
How the Trolling used to make me smile.
And I knew if I had my chance, I could egg on a few Trolls to "dance",
And maybe we'd be happy for a while.
But then Krackhead left and so did Klown;
Volo and Turnip were banned, Mystake got run out o' town.
Bad news on the Front Page,
BIOweenia said goodbye in a heated rage.
I can't remember if I cried
When I heard that TORN was recently fried,
But sadness touched me deep inside,
The day...Black Isle died.


For tarna, Visc, an' the rest o' the ol' Islanders that fell along the way

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I think the 'chosen' thing is never played up for how ridiculous it must seem to someone you come across. I'd be interested to see a setting where being chosen meant that many think you to be outright delusional, crazy and others even heretical and dangerous. A sort of thing where even your friends/family are planning an intervention.

 

Still, I've seen too much of the chosen one. I'd really prefer to just see a regular character with regular abilities who . . . struggles just as much as that veyr mundane city guard that needs their help. Struggles in that they're just as bad off, they aren't better or more skilled. The challenges they overcome they overcome through wit and tactics not by being stronger or more powerful, at a base, than anyone else.


"Step away! She has brought truth and you condemn it? The arrogance!

You will not harm her, you will not harm her ever again!"

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I prefer a regular person caught up in events myself. I'm a bit over the whole 'child of a god' thing, which isn't to say that I didn't enjoy those storylines but I feel it's just a bit overdone at this point.


priestess2.jpg

 

The Divine Marshmallow shall succour the souls of the Righteous with his sweetness while the Faithless writhe in the molten syrup of his wrath.

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Some people need to reacquaint themselves with what "chosen one" means in literature -

 

here's a good source

 

Even uses a quote from my favorite author:

"It's one thing to think that you're the center of the universe — it's another thing entirely to have this confirmed by an ancient prophecy." - Douglas Adams

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I want to play as an exceptional individual, right man in the right place at the right time. One thing I don't want however is to have no connection whatsoever to the ongoing plot, because at some point in the story i'll stop and ask myself why would I be doing all this if i'm not personally involved. Point of fact I think Obsidian does this quite well, it introduces logical segways into the plot. Whether it be the shard buried in the weilders heart by accident, being a useful pawn in a gamble to grasp power over the Mojave, framed and betrayed by a secret goverment agency or Jayne Kassynders determination to wipe out every last member of the organisation which killed her father and you are a part.

 

A chosen one, a pawn of prophecy is something I despise however, the tame lapdog of a particular belief who must fulfill his destiny. Who must embrace his fate, because of otherworldly eminences, that's just deeply disturbing and wrong on a personal and philosophical level to me. I may as well not be doing anything if the dictates of fate demand that such and such a scenario must come to pass, and how can you perform good if there's no temptation or choice to challenge you. The true heroes conquer adversity and overcome the impossible, they don't just perform their assigned role then line up to be martyred for the cause.

 

So chosen one no, competent and deeply enmeshed in the conflict yes. Hell even better if the conflict was created and is perpetuated by the protagonist so that he is also the antagonist like in Torment, that's just mind trippingly brilliant, because the whole game says to you that your previous choices had some pretty damn big consequences.

Edited by Nonek
  • Like 1

Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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Still, I've seen too much of the chosen one. I'd really prefer to just see a regular character with regular abilities who . . . struggles just as much as that veyr mundane city guard that needs their help. Struggles in that they're just as bad off, they aren't better or more skilled. The challenges they overcome they overcome through wit and tactics not by being stronger or more powerful, at a base, than anyone else.

 

The thing with this is, if you really truly aren't ANY better than the dudes giving you the quests, WHY aren't they DOING THE QUEST THEMSELVES. They lazy? The whole world is nothing but lazy arseholes? THAT would make for a great game. Your mission, if you choose to accept it . . . get these lazy arseholes to get off their bums and GO DO SOMETHING.

 

Actually, that would make a great quest option--have a quest or two you can complete (and get the xp for!) by convincing the person to go do it themselves. :D

 

Oh, and having better strategy and tactics means you're special--you're a good strategist and tactician. If you mean that you don't want to be special in a purely mechanical way--you don't have extra hp and better armor, etc. This can be true. But you're still not interchangeable with Man on the Street.


Grand Rhetorist of the Obsidian Order

If you appeal to "realism" about a video game feature, you are wrong. Go back and try again.

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I have no problem with Chosen Ones, in fact I think they can add a lot to the storylines of games and I find it frustrating that so many are stubbornly against it these days like it's such a terrible thing.

 

The thing is like anything a Chosen One storyline can be wonderful and create a story that is very personal to the player, if done well (and by personal I don't mean the DA2 style 'here have a family, now stuff will happen to them and since they're your family you must feel sad about it') . Baldur's Gate is a prime example of this, you're (or, you know, your character) the one being hunted because of what you happen to be. Same with NWN2: MotB, the plot is directly affecting your character with some affliction that drives you to try and do something about it.

 

Actually when I think about it more it seems I like the stories to be things that directly affect the player character rather than being a Chosen One or not. But my point that a Chosen One story when done well can be great still stands.

 

There can also be a bit of a blurry line between what is and isn't a Chosen One, where do you draw the line between Chosen One and victim of circumstance? Does there have to be a prophecy to make a character a Chosen One? The NWN2 character could be considered a chance thing, you just happened to be in a certain place and had this thing happen to you. Even in Baldur's Gate. Without the prophecy (and even with it as it really isn't specific to you until you make it) you're just one of many of your kind, who is to say that the prophecy couldn't have been instead pointing towards a certain companion of yours that gets dragged through both the games with you whether you like it or not.

 

Basically I think Chosen One stories can be just as awesome as non-Chosen One stories.

 

And quite frankly most of the time the player character (whether set or made by the PC) ends up being special or making themselves special in some way with games. The exceptions being those with no 'main character' like the IWD games or most MMOs (where again, there isn't really a main character).

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Still, I've seen too much of the chosen one. I'd really prefer to just see a regular character with regular abilities who . . . struggles just as much as that veyr mundane city guard that needs their help. Struggles in that they're just as bad off, they aren't better or more skilled. The challenges they overcome they overcome through wit and tactics not by being stronger or more powerful, at a base, than anyone else.

 

The thing with this is, if you really truly aren't ANY better than the dudes giving you the quests, WHY aren't they DOING THE QUEST THEMSELVES. They lazy? The whole world is nothing but lazy arseholes? THAT would make for a great game. Your mission, if you choose to accept it . . . get these lazy arseholes to get off their bums and GO DO SOMETHING.

 

Actually, that would make a great quest option--have a quest or two you can complete (and get the xp for!) by convincing the person to go do it themselves. :D

 

Why would that question exist?

 

Plenty of people share similar skill sets in reality, each one doesn't automatically cover every possible application of said skills. They each have different lives, different jobs and responsibilities. Why doesn't the regular guard go off and do X? Because he's in the middle of Y. It's the same reason the cop in New York doesn't run down to Atlanta and do the job of another cop down in Atlanta. It's the same reason a person with all the training, possibly more, due to a past job, of said cop doesn't go and do the cop's job and instead works at home as a mechanic, because those days are behind him and he may really not want to get involved with that anymore.

 

If the game was especially good, and he really did want to go and do what you were set out to do, you know what would happen? He'd be a companion. Which you have in games of this style. That's what a companion is. He's that guard that didn't just want to stay at his post anymore and came with you. That happens in these games. Heck look at Thunderscape: World of Aden, right off the boat you're confronted with a character who wants to come with you, even though he has other responsibilities. In fact once you achieve the specific objective he signed up to achieve, he'll go back to his responsibilities.

 

Still if you can convince a person to go out and do their own dirty work . . . I'm all for that. In some situations. I've known enough people that wouldn't lift a hand to deal with their own problems in reality that I have no problem believing in the existence of people that would rather you go do their work for them. Even if they're fully capable themselves.

 

Oh, and having better strategy and tactics means you're special--you're a good strategist and tactician. If you mean that you don't want to be special in a purely mechanical way--you don't have extra hp and better armor, etc. This can be true. But you're still not interchangeable with Man on the Street.

 

Strength. Power. I used these words for a reason. Most games that make you the chosen one give you some brand of 'X' that just makes you better than everyone else. That's what I meant. Better strategy doesn't make you better than anyone else in the ways I was talking about, not at a base. Your strategies that you apply to your character are things you have to come up with, through prior planning or through on your toes thinking. These things aren't on hand and always available, they aren't a set in stone ability or passive that's always there for you to fall back on. Your ability to plan for a situation can be faulty. You can walk into a situation and be wrong and lose.

 

If the stats are the same, you are interchangeable. It's simple a matter of you have the potential to reload your game when you mess up.

 

-

 

Actually Thunderscape is a great example of 'not the chosen one' you create a party of characters to reactivate the shield. The call went out to any and everyone. Many went. You run into some. Some dead. Some that might come with you. Some unrelated but still willing. And so on. Your characters aren't special. They're just willing to face the horrors ahead. Yours weren't the only ones.

 

 

I always thought the intro to Thunderscape was one of the better tension builders I ever came across. It's not calling for the chosen one. It's a desperate cry for someone, anyone, because things are just that bad. You aren't the best of the best. The best of the best aren't there, can't get there. Things are just that bad and those that show up aren't prepared for what they'll face.

Edited by Umberlin
  • Like 1

"Step away! She has brought truth and you condemn it? The arrogance!

You will not harm her, you will not harm her ever again!"

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I'd rather not be the Chosen One. Coincidence brought me to where I start the game, nothing more. The reason? Mary sues are tiring.

 

[spoilerS FOR GUILD WARS 2] Look at TraHURRRn in Guild Wars 2. He totally steals your story, multiclasses (when it's not possible) gets magic artifacts, destined to lead armies, etc etc. He stinks so bad and he infiltrates and steals your story. There's no gratification. [End Spoilers]

 

I like starting small and making the legend myself.


Knight Drei of the Obsidian Order

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By the defenition of 'Mary Sue' most people here seem to be using, we would have to throw away most classic literature on account of all the protagonists being the children of gods.

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I think Mary Sue is being really poorly misunderstood.

 

Mary (or her twin Gary) Sue was originally just an author avatar, and a "perfect being" avatar at that.

 

Now - well, again, this explains best how the term is now thrown around so often that it is meaningless.

 

Chosen One != Mary Sue

 

Kinda impossible with a role-playing game where you create your own character. I mean, you can be making a "player avatar" to represent YOU being in the world... but the character you make doesn't have to be a chosen one, and game rules usually prevent you from making a "perfect being" character so...

 

... you know, I already realize I'm going to lose this one. NM.

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The main protagonist should be an ornery bastard who is just too stubborn to die. That is the only thing that makes him/her special!


Grandiose statements, cryptic warnings, blind fanboyisim and an opinion that leaves no room for argument and will never be dissuaded. Welcome to the forums, you'll go far in this place my boy, you'll go far!

 

The people who are a part of the "Fallout Community" have been refined and distilled over time into glittering gems of hatred.

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I'm willing to disagree on the throwing of classic literature. Classic mythology perhaps, but not history as a whole. There are many feats in history itself done by people who were not god touched in any way more than a person in a myth. Genghis Khan, was a great conqueror, conquering most of Eurasia in his life, and was not born in the vein of vast wealth or abilities beyond the average man.

 

I believe that a man who has enough willpower and who happens to find himself in a situation (protagonists in many stories, real or fictional), can go beyond a person born and bred into greatness.

 

Chosen ones tend to imply the person was fated to be, no matter what happened, the great hero of a saga or epic. And to me, that is bull****, because people should make their own destiny.

 

It's why FO2 was so awesome despite me cringing at being the "chosen one". As the game progressed, you find that you're just another person stuck in the Wastelands, and being "Chosen" was as much coincidence as many of the other events that happen in the best of stories.

 

Mary Sues tend to start appearing when the entirety behind their powers and abilities are external. He was a great warrior because he was the son of a God, not because he made himself great. She's a brilliant mage because someone infused her with the power of an old archmage.

 

To me those stories have their place, but have very little appeal.


Knight Drei of the Obsidian Order

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Where do heroes come from if not from 'ordinary' people. A hero is someone who is willing to act. The quest giver may actually be better fitted to do the quest but is not willing to act. The Hero may start out an ordinary person but as he or she acts he discovers abilities and powers within himself he was previously unaware of. He learns new things, new ways of doing things. The Hero sees that something needs to be done and does it.

 

I have played and enjoyed many games with a "Chosen One" I have nothing against the concept I just think it has been over used and I would like a change. No prophecies, no gods, no special birth just someone who chooses to be the Hero. Who chooses to act. I don't want to be "The Chosen One" I want to be "The One Who Chooses".


 I have but one enemy: myself  - Drow saying


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Don't mind the whole chosen one shenanigans. In every rpg out there you happen to be hero chosen one material anyways. You accomplish a impossible task. The chosen by prophecy simply add more history to your character.

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A chosen one, a pawn of prophecy is something I despise however, the tame lapdog of a particular belief who must fulfill his destiny. Who must embrace his fate, because of otherworldly eminences, that's just deeply disturbing and wrong on a personal and philosophical level to me. I may as well not be doing anything if the dictates of fate demand that such and such a scenario must come to pass, and how can you perform good if there's no temptation or choice to challenge you.

 

First solid argument in this whole thread. Everyone knew that prophecy was lame, you're just the first one who hit on the deeper reasoning for why. Well done.

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I guess I can agree prophesies and destinies are stupid.

 

But you're not going to be some average joe killing monsters and saving the world. That just sounds retarded.

 

I do think it would be kind of cool if there was a prophecy for the main villain to destroy the world or succeed at whatever goal he had and it was shoved in your face throughout the game that you can't stop him.

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I think the 'chosen' thing is never played up for how ridiculous it must seem to someone you come across. I'd be interested to see a setting where being chosen meant that many think you to be outright delusional, crazy and others even heretical and dangerous. A sort of thing where even your friends/family are planning an intervention.

 

Still, I've seen too much of the chosen one. I'd really prefer to just see a regular character with regular abilities who . . . struggles just as much as that veyr mundane city guard that needs their help. Struggles in that they're just as bad off, they aren't better or more skilled. The challenges they overcome they overcome through wit and tactics not by being stronger or more powerful, at a base, than anyone else.

 

 

This. A thousand times this.

 

No super-powers. No super-special skills. Just sweat, blood and wits.

 

 

 

 

The thing with this is, if you really truly aren't ANY better than the dudes giving you the quests, WHY aren't they DOING THE QUEST THEMSELVES. They lazy? The whole world is nothing but lazy arseholes? THAT would make for a great game. Your mission, if you choose to accept it . . . get these lazy arseholes to get off their bums and GO DO SOMETHING.

 

Better is subjective. Better in what way? A more skilled swordsman? Smarter? More tactical?

 

There is a difference between being just a normal human being, but very skilled (like Batman) and being Superman and being superior to everyone by default.

In the first example pople think you're awesome because you worked your ass off to get to there despite your limitations. In the second your awesomness was handed to you on the silver platter.

 

Making the player a Super Sayan and thus powerfull and awesome and superior to normal humans is IMHO nothing more than ego stroking.

 

As to whay the others don't do it - for the same reason that in the real world things don't always get done. Millions of reasons. Not enought time, not enough resources, cowardly, not skilled enough, tried and failed, doesn't want to get his hands dirty, etc...

Mercenaries exist in real life. Obviously they get jobs.

 

When an army launches 5 assaults on the hill but only the 5th suceed - why was it?

Edited by TrashMan

* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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I really enjoy personal stories (like Planescape: Torment or Baldur's Gate) that don't involve saving the world/mankind. And I really hate when at the start of a game every NPC says "YOU are SO special, you are our ONLY hope!" like, you know, Neverwinter Nights.


"I feel stronger"

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