Wizardry 7 - Classes i.e. Ninjas and Samurai

[WintermuteOmega]

I probably will get a lot of hate from this one, but still...

 

i loved being able to play a little bit more than the "usual" classes in Wizardry (i still love the 7th installment and know it almost by heart).

There were monks, samurai, ninjas, lords, thaumaturgists etc.

 

I know this would break the "feel" for many players, but i am curious who does feel the same way (or differently) about being able to play as a fairy ninja.

 

To be clear, even though i would love to be able to play as a ninja or samurai in PE, i know this may be not what most people want, so i

am not suggesting it for PE. I just want to know, who also dreams about bringing some Wizardry mash up characters back to modern gaming. I am still waiting for Wiz-Online to come to western servers...

[TrashMan]

NO.

 

Makign a mish-mash of every culture, mythology, style and everytihng is bad, BAD idea.

 

It's one of the reasons I started to hate Forgotten Realms.

Throwing everything in a blender ins NEVER a good idea. NEVER.

[Umberlin]

I always liked the Wizardry games, they had their own charm. Just keep in mind the Wizardry games were the sort of fantasy where you could come across a biker girl riding around on a far future hover vehicle, and use that as basis for why a large mish mash of cultures and elements might work better in that brand of a setting.

[Raedwulf]

i loved being able to play a little bit more than the "usual" classes in Wizardry (i still love the 7th installment and know it almost by heart).

There were monks, samurai, ninjas, lords, thaumaturgists etc.

 

Well, what's the difference between a Samurai and a Fighter or an Assassin and a Ninja despite the cultural background? Especially the Samurai isn't a good adventurer class but a fighter in service who needs to obey to his lords commands. Well, you may want to go for a Ronin instead. But even the Ronin is just --ok, this is a rough approximation-- a Fighter with a Dai-Sho.

[WintermuteOmega]

Well, what's the difference between a Samurai and a Fighter or an Assassin and a Ninja despite the cultural background? Especially the Samurai isn't a good adventurer class but a fighter in service who needs to obey to his lords commands. Well, you may want to go for a Ronin instead. But even the Ronin is just --ok, this is a rough approximation-- a Fighter with a Dai-Sho.

 

Well, it's the feel of a different culture. Playwise, sure, they might be just the same. But they can be felt quite differently.

 

The elaborate. No, i am against Ninjas and samurai in PE. But i like having to play nit just zhe "usual" clichéd builds. For example, Dak'kon the Zerth from Planescape Torment always felt more than a samurai than a "fighter".

[WintermuteOmega]

I always liked the Wizardry games, they had their own charm. Just keep in mind the Wizardry games were the sort of fantasy where you could come across a biker girl riding around on a far future hover vehicle, and use that as basis for why a large mish mash of cultures and elements might work better in that brand of a setting.

 

Exactly! Nuclear blasts and laser-swords. It didn't take itself too serious, but still had it's own immersion and gameworld. Something that would be hard to come across nowadays.

[Vaeliorin]

Well, what's the difference between a Samurai and a Fighter or an Assassin and a Ninja despite the cultural background? Especially the Samurai isn't a good adventurer class but a fighter in service who needs to obey to his lords commands. Well, you may want to go for a Ronin instead. But even the Ronin is just --ok, this is a rough approximation-- a Fighter with a Dai-Sho.

 

Well, it's the feel of a different culture. Playwise, sure, they might be just the same. But they can be felt quite differently.

 

The elaborate. No, i am against Ninjas and samurai in PE. But i like having to play nit just zhe "usual" clichéd builds. For example, Dak'kon the Zerth from Planescape Torment always felt more than a samurai than a "fighter".

That's because Dak'kon was a fighter/mage, which is essentially what a Wizardry samurai is. Sure, you've got the odd weapon/armor with an oriental name in the Wizardry games but ninjas/samurai/etc. in the Wizardry games were essentially just multi-class characters.

 

Also, the Cane of Corpus is bad, and you should feel bad for exploiting it. Say no to Cane of Corpus in PE!

Edited September 23, 2012 by Vaeliorin

[Bill Gates' Son]

NO.

 

Makign a mish-mash of every culture, mythology, style and everytihng is bad, BAD idea.

 

It's one of the reasons I started to hate Forgotten Realms.

Throwing everything in a blender ins NEVER a good idea. NEVER.

 

And may I ask why? You expect every places in the world to have the exact same culture?

[WintermuteOmega]

 

That's because Dak'kon was a fighter/mage, which is essentially what a Wizardry samurai is. Sure, you've got the odd weapon/armor with an oriental name in the Wizardry games but ninjas/samurai/etc. in the Wizardry games were essentially just multi-class characters.

 

I think you're right about that. It's the same as with the prestige-classes from Neverwinter Nights 2. The also felt very different than the usual archetypes. But they also were essentially also multi-classes.

 

Also, the Cane of Corpus is bad, and you should feel bad for exploiting it. Say no to Cane of Corpus in PE!

 

Very true! But all endlevel weapons of W7 were kinda all powerful deathdealing works of wonder

[Luckmann]

NO.

 

Makign a mish-mash of every culture, mythology, style and everytihng is bad, BAD idea.

 

It's one of the reasons I started to hate Forgotten Realms.

Throwing everything in a blender ins NEVER a good idea. NEVER.

 

And may I ask why? You expect every places in the world to have the exact same culture?

No, I think he was saying the opposite. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.

 

Different areas of the world have different cultures. Therefore, a Samurai in one place is as annoying as a Knight in another. If there ever is a roleplaying game set in Africa, I will not expect to run around as a black Paladin, either.

 

I'm sick and tired of the multicultural mono-culture that results from putting everything in a blender. It destroys everything unique and valuable, turns gold into massive turds and the rainbow into brown. I get enough of that in real life.

[jhander]

Well, i like the idea. Diversity is never a bad thing, but i want them to be "sub classes". Like Samurai a sub class of Fighter like Kensai, or Berserk with some pros and cons that make them feel diferent.

[Romiras]

Please NO. Oriental thingy doesn't fit well into this ancient Celtic myths based world, so PLEASE - NO

[TrashMan]

NO.

 

Makign a mish-mash of every culture, mythology, style and everytihng is bad, BAD idea.

 

It's one of the reasons I started to hate Forgotten Realms.

Throwing everything in a blender ins NEVER a good idea. NEVER.

 

And may I ask why? You expect every places in the world to have the exact same culture?

 

 

No, but I don't expect them to mix to that extent either. A Madieval world is far more compartmentalized than the modern one. There was no huge migrations and mixing of ideas and communications.

Especially since half the cultures and creatures in FR are taken from myths/cultures that didn't even exist at the same time.

 

And even moreso because it just feel wrong and stupid - enough to completely ruin the setting for me.

[Luckmann]

Well, i like the idea. Diversity is never a bad thing, but i want them to be "sub classes". Like Samurai a sub class of Fighter like Kensai, or Berserk with some pros and cons that make them feel diferent.

It's all fun and games until someone loses a bike.

[nikolokolus]

Asking for Asiatic influenced classes presumes that there are psuedo-oriental cultures present within the game world, so it's a bit like putting the cart before the horse. So, I'm not dead-set against it, but there has to be a story driven reason for their presence.

[Zombra]

Well, it depends on the game setting. I think that ninjas fighting knights fighting kung-fu monks fighting motorcycle gangs fighting vikings fighting pirates is a little silly. I hope the game world is written so that I can take it a little more seriously.

 

As for character classes, I would much rather see a few classes with a ton of options. Why not have Fighters able to fight with two swords? Why not have Rogues able to use smoke bombs? (We know there are single shot firearms in the world, so flash powder and smoke bombs do make sense.) You can call these guys Samurai and Ninja if you want; the game doesn't need to make whole new classes for them.

 

Anyway, in Wizardry, all a Samurai was was a fighter who could use a little arcane magic, and a Lord was a fighter who could use a little divine magic. We already know that magic will be common in the P:E world, so "spellswords" and the like are pretty much a certainty.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Zombra

[-TK-]

Samurai and ninjas are lame outside of their own cultural context, nothing grinds my gears more than seeing a katana in a predominantly medieval-European styled game, it breaks continuity and, frankly it's just there for the sake of pandering to weeaboos.

[hideo kuze]

 

NO.

 

Makign a mish-mash of every culture, mythology, style and everytihng is bad, BAD idea.

 

It's one of the reasons I started to hate Forgotten Realms.

Throwing everything in a blender ins NEVER a good idea. NEVER.

How about PST?

 

i loved being able to play a little bit more than the "usual" classes in Wizardry (i still love the 7th installment and know it almost by heart).

There were monks, samurai, ninjas, lords, thaumaturgists etc.

 

Well, what's the difference between a Samurai and a Fighter or an Assassin and a Ninja despite the cultural background? Especially the Samurai isn't a good adventurer class but a fighter in service who needs to obey to his lords commands. Well, you may want to go for a Ronin instead. But even the Ronin is just --ok, this is a rough approximation-- a Fighter with a Dai-Sho.

 

One could say, what's the conceptual difference between a barbarian, a fighter and a paladin?

They are all about mashing the other guy.

 

 

Please NO. Oriental thingy doesn't fit well into this ancient Celtic myths based world, so PLEASE - NO

Who said it was Celtic inspired?

Did they have firearms too?

BTW, where did gunpowder first appeared anyway?

 

 

 

 

 

I can't say "yeah let's have samurais and ninjas" because it's a matter of fitting the game world or not.

I'd love to have different types of cultures in this game. And I'm sure we will have that.

And it would be nice to have both something akin to the brute european animals of the XV century, as well as the more disciplined and refined orientals of the same time period.

mmm... maybe that will be the difference between humans and elfs.

 

I know this isn't D&D, but it does overlaps it, and in D&D you have monks and katanas. So you may as well have a rogue subclass that is an assassin (disguise, poison), and another that is a ninja (acrobatics, silent).

And if you have paladins (lives by its faith and oaths to his god), you may as well have samurais (lives by a strict code of honor, pledges his life to his master).

 

Funnily enough I think the biggest problem is the naming. The words "samurai" and "ninja" cause some distress.

If you call them instead "guardians" or "invisible assassins", then everything is going to be all right

[TrashMan]

How about PST?

 

I didn't like PST actually.

Shocking, I know.

 

Great RPG, but the setting compeltley turned me off. It was probably very attractive to many people.

 

 

 

One could say, what's the conceptual difference between a barbarian, a fighter and a paladin?

They are all about mashing the other guy.

 

Simplyfiy everything enough and everything is the same.

A mage and a fighter are just humans who fight...

 

 

 

And it would be nice to have both something akin to the brute european animals of the XV century, as well as the more disciplined and refined orientals of the same time period.

 

Common misconception.

[-TK-]

How about PST?

 

Well, I think you'll agree that PST was somewhat unique in that regard, being that the mish-mash of different cultures was pretty integral to the idea of a planar hub like sigil.

 

But can you honestly say that it wouldn't be jarring in a standard European medieval fantasy setting?

[Ashram]

I think it would be neat if the culture you came from influenced how your chosen class progressed. For example if you came from the Pearl Coast and were a fighter...you might be trained differently than one from Godhammer Citadel in the north. Sure, that probably isn't super easy to implement, but it would make sense historically. Japanese had Samurai and Ninja; Europe had Knights, Longbowman; Sparta had their Spartan spearmen and formations; Roman Legion; Persian immortals; Indian Braves; China's Shaolin Monks, French Muskateers, etc. I think that could prove to be interesting.

[hideo kuze]

One could say, what's the conceptual difference between a barbarian, a fighter and a paladin?

They are all about mashing the other guy.

 

Simplyfiy everything enough and everything is the same.

A mage and a fighter are just humans who fight...

I guess you just tried to dodge the point.

What do those 3 classes have in common? They are able to inflict damage through physical actions using different types of weapons, such as swords... which surprisingly are also in line with the figure of samurais.

I would say it's quite different from mages, who rely on magic.

 

And it would be nice to have both something akin to the brute european animals of the XV century, as well as the more disciplined and refined orientals of the same time period.

 

Common misconception.

Well I could be wrong. My idea is that they weren't exactly known for hygiene or politeness.

If you can, feel free to post a link or two.

Funny thing is, even today, some westerners are seen as rude in some asian countries, due to things such as loud talking or blatant gestures or movement.

 

FWIW, I was born and raised in Europe.

[hideo kuze]

How about PST?

 

Well, I think you'll agree that PST was somewhat unique in that regard, being that the mish-mash of different cultures was pretty integral to the idea of a planar hub like sigil.

 

But can you honestly say that it wouldn't be jarring in a standard European medieval fantasy setting?

 

Agreed.

Like I said, it has to fit the setting.

 

It would make sense if such classes only became available after the player had made contact to another culture across a vast ocean.

Well, this is possible material for an expansion.

[-TK-]

I'll give you that.