Level Cap - Will there be one?

[GhostofAnakin]

Probably early in the development cycle, but has there been any indication about a level cap? Will it be similar to Baldur's Gate, where at the end of the game you're likely to be around level 6 or 7, or will it allow for a lot more leveling like in Planescape: Torment?

 

For the fans, which do you prefer? A lower level cap where each level up seems like a monumental achievement, or more frequent level ups?

[ogrezilla]

Probably early in the development cycle, but has there been any indication about a level cap? Will it be similar to Baldur's Gate, where at the end of the game you're likely to be around level 6 or 7, or will it allow for a lot more leveling like in Planescape: Torment?

 

For the fans, which do you prefer? A lower level cap where each level up seems like a monumental achievement, or more frequent level ups?

 

either is fine as long as I feel substantially stronger at the end of the game than the beginning. Given the choice, I'd rather more level ups than finishing at level 7 though.

[Merin]

Level caps only matter in games with endless random content.

 

if you have a preset number of encounters and quests... a quantifiable maximum amount of experience points achievable, if you will... then level caps are a moot point.

 

As much as I love games like Fallout and Fallout 2, I actually prefer there not to be endless random encounters and an endless stream of XP... this usually leads to grinding being necessary at points in the game to be able to push forward in the story, but even without this... no, I don't want endless XP.

 

So I'm okay with there be a de facto level cap.

 

A hard forced one that stops a character from leveling while there's still more XP to be gotten, however, I am not in favor of.

 

I remember reaching the Star Forge in KotOR and being max level. Suddenly half (or more) of the fun of all the fights from that point forward was gone.

[nikolokolus]

We don't even know the game system yet, the whole concept of "levels" is completely arbitrary and nebulous at this point.

[NerdBoner]

Probably early in the development cycle, but has there been any indication about a level cap? Will it be similar to Baldur's Gate, where at the end of the game you're likely to be around level 6 or 7, or will it allow for a lot more leveling like in Planescape: Torment?

 

For the fans, which do you prefer? A lower level cap where each level up seems like a monumental achievement, or more frequent level ups?

I don't care much for arbitrary leveling systems to be honest, though i don't hate them either...

 

I kind of want to see a bit of innovation in this area, for example...when I level up, why would i be able to advance in Archery if i've spent all my time fighting with a sword and have never picked up a bow in my life?

 

i'd like to see some kind of balance between leveling and actual in game experience regarding skills that you're able to acquire.

 

 

oh, and arbitrary level caps are lame...I want a better excuse for not being able to advance a character other than a cap. How about I can't get better with my sword for now because my muscles are already at their snapping point and to proceed any further i'd have to visit some alchemist who could enhance my sword arm (cue said alchemist for sequel)...

 

little touches like that help smooth out rough edges and increase realism/immersion when implementing rule systems.

[Gurkog]

I don't care if there is a level cap... I just want the final encounter to be a real pain in the ass if the player character charges head first, sword swinging. I likes me some challenging combat and final bosses usually fail to deliver... although Obsidian games usually do not have that problem. Guess I am not too worried.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Gurkog

[LadyCrimson]

I think for this kind of game, I like level caps, although I don't see any reason for a super high cap (like 100).

 

Doesn't matter to me much if it's a low cap or a higher cap, as long as the gameplay feels balanced around whatever it is. For some reason I like increments of 5, so I'd be happy with anywhere between 10-20.

[Vandoon]

I do like level progression and would like to see no level cap. With an evolving dynamic world it would be possible to continue to level forever however it grows exponentially longer and you are no longer able to be trained you have to practice and teach yourself being longer and hard each time. In opposition to this I would like to see a world where the monsters / encounters are fixed level to a degree. The wolves are this tough (range baby to pack leader) I like to see a game where you have to pick your fights. These guys are just too tough and you retreat however later they are a breeze. You have ultra high level entities that you would not be expected to beat however if you spend long enough (even after the main plot has run its course) you could defeat them.

[Grimlorn]

Level caps only matter in games with endless random content.

 

if you have a preset number of encounters and quests... a quantifiable maximum amount of experience points achievable, if you will... then level caps are a moot point.

 

As much as I love games like Fallout and Fallout 2, I actually prefer there not to be endless random encounters and an endless stream of XP... this usually leads to grinding being necessary at points in the game to be able to push forward in the story, but even without this... no, I don't want endless XP.

 

So I'm okay with there be a de facto level cap.

 

A hard forced one that stops a character from leveling while there's still more XP to be gotten, however, I am not in favor of.

 

I remember reaching the Star Forge in KotOR and being max level. Suddenly half (or more) of the fun of all the fights from that point forward was gone.

There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin. I also can't believe you're using Kotor as an example. You contradict yourself saying you don't want an endless stream of XP but then complain that you were level capped at the end of Kotor and weren't getting XP for the last area.

 

If there is a leveling system, level caps are good because it makes it easier to balance combat and make it challenging towards the end of the game. If you have a lot of side quests/content and no level cap, then you have to make the game easy enough for someone to skip all of that and still beat the game. Meanwhile, someone that does most or all of the side quests levels up much more and makes the end game trivial.

[Umberlin]

Level caps are generally there if content maxes out at a particular point, and the developers don't ever want you so far above that mark that it becomes trivial. So my assumption is that whether there is a level cap or not, and, if there is, how high, will be determined by how open ended the game it, and just how high the content goes. For example if you can keep playing after you've beaten the main storyline, and can find much higher level things, it's generally a given a level cap, if there is one, won't max out with the storyline itself. If the game is more linear in that 'you have the main story and the side stories' you may end up with a more limited leveling range.

 

In the end what's best for the game is that a level cap, if there is one at all, fits the game itself.

 

Probably early in the development cycle, but has there been any indication about a level cap? Will it be similar to Baldur's Gate, where at the end of the game you're likely to be around level 6 or 7, or will it allow for a lot more leveling like in Planescape: Torment?

 

For the fans, which do you prefer? A lower level cap where each level up seems like a monumental achievement, or more frequent level ups?

I don't care much for arbitrary leveling systems to be honest, though i don't hate them either...

 

I kind of want to see a bit of innovation in this area, for example...when I level up, why would i be able to advance in Archery if i've spent all my time fighting with a sword and have never picked up a bow in my life?

 

i'd like to see some kind of balance between leveling and actual in game experience regarding skills that you're able to acquire.

 

 

oh, and arbitrary level caps are lame...I want a better excuse for not being able to advance a character other than a cap. How about I can't get better with my sword for now because my muscles are already at their snapping point and to proceed any further i'd have to visit some alchemist who could enhance my sword arm (cue said alchemist for sequel)...

 

little touches like that help smooth out rough edges and increase realism/immersion when implementing rule systems.

 

The idea of the leveling processing using the context of 'what you've been doing' as a basis for what's available is an interesting one, I don't not how viable, likely or even practical it is . . . but it definitely caught my interest enough to get me thinking about it.

[Luckmann]

I really, really liked the pacing of Baldur's Gate. You got substantially stronger, but not ridiculously so. Levels were rare enough to be major happenings when they came, and they were relatively powerful for that level-range. My only complaint is that they weren't really.. substantial enough. I would've liked to make more choices when levelling up.

 

That said, I'm opposed to hard caps in roleplaying games.

There should definitely be a soft cap, though.

[evdk]

Will there even be levels?

[Luckmann]

Will there even be levels?

We don't actually know that.

 

For all we know, you will spend experience to buy advances, which is common in many RPGs. In fact, I tend to prefer that. Saves us from the whole HP/Mana inflation (unless you want to pay for it).

[Makura]

Honestly, levels caps are far less of an issue than level scaling of the encounters... So if it's a choice between the two to maintain a challenging experience through the game, I'll take level cap any day, thanks.

[GhostofAnakin]

I didn't answer my own question when I first posted this, so I'll do it now.

 

I personally thought Baldurs Gate was a bit too limiting, but at the same time it did add that much more importance to when you were able to level up. So I wouldn't be against that sort of thing.

 

Overall, my preference would be for the level cap to match the content. Like with the Star Forge example, the XP/levels didn't match the content. You could reach the highest level before even finishing that section. So I'd like to see the XP and subsequent leveling be in line with how much content is available to the player.

[Leferd]

I liked the low level cap of BG. The pacing seemed right vis a vis game length and number of party companions. Each level up was a significant event and gives the player a sense of accomplishment/reward.I really do hope that such is the case for PE.

[Badmojo]

I prefer no level caps, there is no reason you should not still be improving with time. I like the feeling of becoming a god machine near the end of games, I do not like artificial caps to keep your level low.

[Shevek]

There should be some theoretical cap that you balance the end of the game around.

[Merin]

Overall, my preference would be for the level cap to match the content. Like with the Star Forge example, the XP/levels didn't match the content. You could reach the highest level before even finishing that section. So I'd like to see the XP and subsequent leveling be in line with how much content is available to the player.

 

I'd agree with you here - it is basically what I said earlier - but apparently -

 

There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin. I also can't believe you're using Kotor as an example.

 

- so I better not agree with you. I don't want to be that much wrong.