How important are mod tools to you?

[Shevek]

One thing devs have been relatively quiet about are mod tools. Certainly, the game will not have 3D terrain. Some may argue that could preclude the viability of modding much. The difficulty in drawing backdrops would definately prove troublesome for folks wishing to create modules in the same way they did for NWN 1/2. Certainly, however, 2D isometric rpgs have had mods released for them in the past. The Infinity Engine games, in particular, had very active modding communities which regularly released NPC, rules and some area mods as well.

 

Looking back at mods for games such as BG1/2, ToEE, etc, how do you folks feel about mod tools for this game?

[nikolokolus]

I really enjoyed the campaign mods that people cooked up for NWN and I worked for about a year and half with a group of people building a small PnP style persistent world for NWN2 (mostly as an area designer), but for this game I just don't think it's going to matter all that much to have these kind of modding tools unless the game is built with multi-player support added in from the start. Level and area design with "baked in" environments means using external tools and then importing them as backdrops and that is going to create a barrier for a lot of people.

 

Furthermore, I never really played the co-op mode with Baldur's gate 1/2 that much, but when I did, I found it to be less than satisfying because it just didn't work all that well in a story-driven RPG. And while, I'm sure people would be able to come up with some amazing stuff if given a tool to do so, but I'm just worried that it would serve a very small niche and would be a waste of precious time and money.

 

Who knows, maybe they'll make so much money on the kickstarter that it will be a trivial thing to add a robust modding tool and decent co-op support, but I have my doubts.

Edited September 21, 2012 by nikolokolus

[Oerwinde]

I'm all for ensuring the game is moddable (using file types that are easily editable, etc.) but spending extra time and resources on a community toolset that likely wont be more than a script or conversation editor doesn't seem like an efficient use of resources.

[Canova]

i would like to see some robust mod tool, however im not sure how much resources would be needed for such feature. it seems to me that Obsidian is trying to avoid this topic, at least at this time

[Kopi]

Too bad there is no "modifying animation" option. Animations are what I'm interested in ..

[nikolokolus]

i would like to see some robust mod tool, however im not sure how much resources would be needed for such feature. it seems to me that Obsidian is trying to avoid this topic, at least at this time

 

As they should in my opinion. Once they say something it would be awfully tough to go back on it. Chances are they are trying to gauge just how many people want this functionality (cost-benefit analysis) and just how tough it will be to develop it with their expected budget.

[Kissamies]

I don't use them myself, but I'd love mod tools. Fan created campaigns increased the value of NWN 1 and 2 for me immersely. So much more content and some of it really good. Absolutely loved the NWN2 module Harp & Chrysanthemum. Played it three times in a row.

[Orogun01]

I would prefer it if the mod tools supported a variety of formats that would make it easier to work with different programs. I can't tell you how much I hate having to convert OBJs to NIFs just so I can get a sword into Skyrim.

 

I know studios focus on working with the programs they own the licenses to, but for at least the mod tool I would like it if I didn't have to extra steps just to get assets into the game.

[Stun]

I'm all for ensuring the game is moddable (using file types that are easily editable, etc.) but spending extra time and resources on a community toolset that likely wont be more than a script or conversation editor doesn't seem like an efficient use of resources.

^this.

 

None of the infinity engine games had a tool set. Yet this didn't stop the massive pool of amazing mods from coming out for every single one of those games. So this absolutely raises the question of whether resources could be better spent elsewhere.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Stun

[Shevek]

That is an interesting option: releasing the game in an easily modifiable state. I would add that import/export plugins for 3D models and the like would be nice if they went this route.

[NerdBoner]

bro's and hoe's (don't kill me femenists, i'm a closet mangina irl) I wholeheartedly support modding in every way shape and form...if some of you ever find the time i recommend going back to NWN one day just to download a mod series called "Saleron's Gambit" (5 parts) the Aielund saga (massive game, 4 part saga) and probably some of the most genius modding possibly ever done for NWN called the Auren trilogy- (Almraiven, Shadewood and the upcoming Fate of the Auren)...

 

these mod campaigns have better stories and more immersive gameplay than most roleplaying games that have come out since the IE era....

 

 

so yes, i fully support mod tools and i want them to be accessible to both types of people: the programmer ultra nerds and the super enthusiasts like me who have ideas but no hope to implement them due to no tech savvy.

Edited September 21, 2012 by NerdBoner

[oldmanpaco]

It really depends on how they plan on rendering environments. The say fixed perspective isometric like the IE engine but does that also mean per-rendered backgrounds? Without a ton of stock models or painted environments (like nwn2) a tool kit is overkill. I know I'm simplifying and not describing things correctly but you get what I am saying.

Edited September 21, 2012 by oldmanpaco

[Karranthain]

Baldurs Gate 2 enjoyed a highly increased lifespan due to a large modder presence - I'd love it if PE followed that.

[TCJ]

I would really like to see some modding tools made available, with functional tools that allow more options being preferred. Considering that isometric view is how the game will be made, I don't see certain types of modding (like areas) as being quite as feasible as they were in games like NWN2, so for this, I'd be happy with a scripting mod and a dialogue tree mod -- at least for starters! We've already seen a lot done with BG modding, which had no tools (to my knowledge) except those which fans made and they've done quite a bit with that, but having the tools already in hand and not having to do workarounds would make modding that much easier.

[Enclave]

For the 3rd poll I selected other. Other stood for pretty much all of the above.

[Oerwinde]

Baldurs Gate 2 enjoyed a highly increased lifespan due to a large modder presence - I'd love it if PE followed that.

 

But all the modding tools were developed by the community I believe. I think the best way to go for OE is to develop the game in a way that is easily moddable. For instance, Paradox tends to do their games where most of their scripts and events and game settings, etc. are stored in .txt files. So all one has to do to mod the game is to open them up and change some settings, or look at examples of events or how countries are put in the game, etc. and copy them with their own changes. If Obsidian could do something similar, then they wouldn't even need to release any sort of tools and could just rely on the community to do what they want.

[Shevek]

Oerwinde:

The problem with that, however, is that the community of 2014 must then go and create those tools. In the past, people did that because games, in general, did not have tools released. If folks were lucky, the devs would released import/export plugins or extractors, etc and thats it.

 

This game will be released in 2014. I am unsure if people in 2014 will have the same impetus to create mod tools and then mod for a game when they can just mod games that already have tools released. This is not to say it can't happen. Certainly, there was some limited modding for ToEE, for example. Still, makes you wonder if the same type of modding community the IE got way back when can crop up around a game with no mod tools on release nowadays.

[Karranthain]

Baldurs Gate 2 enjoyed a highly increased lifespan due to a large modder presence - I'd love it if PE followed that.

 

But all the modding tools were developed by the community I believe. I think the best way to go for OE is to develop the game in a way that is easily moddable. For instance, Paradox tends to do their games where most of their scripts and events and game settings, etc. are stored in .txt files. So all one has to do to mod the game is to open them up and change some settings, or look at examples of events or how countries are put in the game, etc. and copy them with their own changes. If Obsidian could do something similar, then they wouldn't even need to release any sort of tools and could just rely on the community to do what they want.

 

Yeah, another example of that is Total War : Medieval II - they didn't provide the tools per se, but just made modding really easy and most files editable.

 

And there were plenty of mods, even total conversions. Hell, there are still mods under development.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Karranthain

[silvercross]

I'm all for modding tools, but I favor a post-game launch release.

[Nakia]

Other than using some of the mods made for the older isometric games I am not familiar with tools for those games. I do have some experience with 3D game modding. Nothing great but enough to know what can and cannot be done. Modders making unique items, doing texturing and re-texturing use third party tools. Quest mods, campaign mods need a toolkit for the game. Since those are the types of mods I like, ones that add to the playability of the game I would definitely like to see a game toolkit.

[PsychoBlonde]

Looking back at mods for games such as BG1/2, ToEE, etc, how do you folks feel about mod tools for this game?

 

If they decide to do this, I'd rather they do it AFTER the game is finished and released, as DLC or similar. I've messed around with modding tools some myself, but I'd rather have the game be really awesome than be able to futz with it a bunch.

[TimB99]

I would heavily support mod tools that can change pretty much every piece of the game (with restrictions, of course... It would be silly to mod the game into an FPS).

 

I mean... Look at Freespace 2 Open. IT'S STILL ALIVE! And after so many years people are STILL patching up the original game with high res graphics, are even making total-conversion mods to tell stories in for example the star wars or battlestar galactica world, and they are even creating their own stories and settings. They've even made a side-scrolling shooter out of it.

 

Look at Amnesia and what people have done with it. Look at the Warcraft 3 and Starcraft 2 editors. Amazing things can come from mod tools.

 

In short: Mod tools == AWESOME. And I support Awesome.

 

-Tim

[Monte Carlo]

I wouldn't know how to mod if my life depended on it, but given the number of Infinity Engine mods I've enjoyed over the years I say a big yes to modding tools.

[Rabain]

I think the PE team have been reluctant to comment on this as yet because of the possibility of so much of the mod content from BG being viable for PE.

 

For example if it is easy enough to add a new npc there would be no reason not to see 50 extra joinable npc's using BG dialogue, as pretty much 99% of an npc is the dialogue. Convert it to PE structures, import, job done. Hell you would probably see a mod within weeks with "Add the BG characters to your PE game!" and you end up with Minsc and Boo and Aerie running around with you, soundsets and portraits included.

 

Likewise quest content would not be to hard to port across to PE, the artwork of course might need to be different if adding new areas but as quests are pretty much encounter and dialogue options it wouldn't be hard to find somewhere to place them in existing PE.

 

I'm not saying I'd like to see this happen but it is something to consider when thinking about making the game mod friendly from Day1.

 

I think this is something that is a good idea for later, maybe a few months after release when players have had their initial buzz and are trying second or third playthroughs.

[Nakia]

Adding infinity engine NPCs would I believe be breaking copyright laws. Also I am not sure it is that easy to boot something from one engine to another. The problem might be in taking items from one game into another game and that would not need a toolkit devised for the game. Skyrim had that being done long before the Creation Kit was released.