Don't force me to play a jedi

[Cantousent]

Not only were you refused the option of playing different races in Fallout 1 or 2, you didn't even get to choose a different background. You were from the vault in 1 and the village in 2. Fallout was a great game without the sort of options were discussing here. Something better than options is a story that doesn't make us cringe because it's so disjointed at every step. Tight story with a good number of options trumps a lacklustre story with a plethora of options.

[Guaigean]

I completely agree. If by implementing 20 races, they take away the magic of the universe, and the ability to get fully involved, then they really haven't accomplished much. Even if it is 1 race, at least then maybe they can focus on total immersion, and make for a better game. Granted, in a perfect world all options are possible, but in the real world they have deadlines to meet and they just can't do it all.

[Atreides]

The player can only speak english. While other aliens have what they say written in plain english. Unless KotOR does voice overs, why would they have to do anything different for other races? As for wookies, they are the retards...

Wookies can only speak Wookie and their only hope of communicating with other ppl is if said ppl understand Wookie. That's very rare in the population, making most NPCs inaccesible. It would ultimately ruin "immersion" if somehow miraculously all the important NPCs or specific areas coincidently are compatible with Wookies. Same goes for Hutts.

 

Everybody speaks English in the FO world. The dumb-dialogue is still English, and ppl can understand that. It would really be tedious if 90% of communication would be like interaction with the Mandalorian stowaway on the Ebon Hawk. I guess that rules out Wookies and Hutts as playable characters, though of course there are other races that are still usable.

 

Other than that, it would be interesting playing alien races as different ppl have different reactions to other races. The Empire was notoriously racist and treated non-humans like trash. That's why all their top ranking officials were human, aliens in Imperial planets got shafted etc.

 

For playing a non-Jedi, that would be nice, but in a different game. I think a smuggler/underworld type game with Jedis at a premium would be cool. Lando and Han Solo running from the Jabba and the Empire/Old Republic type. However, that's not the type of game KOTOR is (Jedi story), so that's for another time.

[Winterfox]

No, 'Knights of the Old Republic' is the title of a game that has already been released.

 

The title of the upcoming game, if I recall correctly, is 'The Sith Lords', which the magazine article stated referred to the enemies in the game.

No, I believe the upcoming game is "Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords." Correct?

[StillLife]

Tri I agree with you. I wanted to be able to play a non-jedi before the first game was even released. Han Solo and Chewy were probably my favorite characters in the original trilogy too. Unfortunately, it's not gonna happen. Everything Star Wars has to revolve around jedis now. Not that I really understand why.

 

I was surprised that Galaxies even allowed for multiple classes in that game, instead of just forcing everyone to be a jedi. Speaking of Galaxies, and on the subject of different character races: how do wookies communicate in that game with everyone? I know they are a playable race. Aren't there translators that different species can use so that people can understand them in the Star Wars universe anyway? How did your character from the first one understand what Zaalbaar was saying?

 

Creatively speaking, there a plenty of ways to get around the language barrier, especially in a setting where the general populace is made up of 100s of different alien races, and technology seems limitless. Where would Star Wars have gotten if George Lucas had just given up on using aliens for fear that it would be too hard to explain how everyone communicates? Come on people. It's been mentioned already, but there are still plenty of races capable of speaking in galactian basic outside of humans anyway. There's no real reason why you should only be able to play humans, aside from developer preference, which is really the only reason we didn't have that option in KotOR, and probably won't in KotOR 2.

[AlanC9]

Well, the real reason you had to be human in KotOR is that you were Revan. If you were a Twi'Lek they'd have had to put headtails on the Revan model, Revan's too tall for a Rodian, Revan's obviously not a Wookie, etc.

 

I don't see any reason why the KotOR 2 PC can't be a Twi'Lek, Rodian, or something like that.

 

@triCritical: why did your KotOR 1 character hate Jedi, anyway? Hating folks just because they use the force doesn't seem exactly rational.

[mkreku]

I want to be a Hutt

 

Gorth the Hutt, Evil Crimelord, member of the Exchange. B)

I can already picture you, fat and wobbly, sliding around in your own drool..

[tripleRRR]

I want to be a Hutt 

 

Gorth the Hutt, Evil Crimelord, member of the Exchange.  B)

I can already picture you, fat and wobbly, sliding around in your own drool..

 

 

TripleRRR

[triCritical]

I've also never had a problem with Bioware's writing (excepting NWN-1), but I think Troika's has generally been terrible. So "good dialogue" is partly due to taste, but, great as you may think some of the writers are, brilliant dialogue doesn't just spill from their fingertips. It still takes time.

While I thought Arcanum's dialogue was good, I did think ToEE's was bad. Anyhow, the writing I was intending to compliment was BIS, so if I said Troika, it was a mistake. Anyhow, MCA is suppose to be the lead design on KotOR2, and he as well as others in BIS contributed to some of the best dialogue I have ever heard in games. I do disagree with some of his lead design elements, such as those intended for FO3, but I can't disrespect the dudes writing.

[triCritical]

Not only were you refused the option of playing different races in Fallout 1 or 2, you didn't even get to choose a different background. You were from the vault in 1 and the village in 2. Fallout was a great game without the sort of options were discussing here. Something better than options is a story that doesn't make us cringe because it's so disjointed at every step. Tight story with a good number of options trumps a lacklustre story with a plethora of options.

Story is overrated. Games should be fun and exhibit fun gameplay as well as general mechanics. In a Nicomachean way games should be best at bringing to life there primary goal. In KotOR, I was not sure what the game was trying to do, an adventure game with a story, or a combat intensive hack and slash CRPG? The former was done well, but the latter was done much worse. The problem was a good deal of time was spent doing the former.

 

As the lead designer of KotOR2 once said, paraphrasing, if the game itself is bad, it won't matter how good the story is, the game will be ass. I think a weak story and fun game like PONG still has merit, whereas, the oppositte, FINAL FANTASY WHATEVER, doesn't.

[Jora]

Story is overrated.  Games should be fun and exhibit fun gameplay as well as general mechanics.  In a Nicomachean way games should be best at bringing to life there primary goal.  In KotOR, I was not sure what the game was trying to do, an adventure game with a story, or a combat intensive hack and slash CRPG?  The former was done well, but the latter was done much worse.  The problem was a good deal of time was spent doing the former.

 

As the lead designer of KotOR2 once said, paraphrasing, if the game itself is bad, it won't matter how good the story is, the game will be ass.  I think a weak story and fun game like PONG still has merit, whereas, the oppositte, FINAL FANTASY WHATEVER, doesn't.

I think the biggest problem of KoTOR is that it tried to be a cool story driven game concentrating on the main story and character development like Planescape: Torment. But it failed. So not only are the the other aspects of the game mediocre but the story is boring and unoriginal as well.

[Drakron]

Still its a lot better that what s*** Lords previews are hinting at, that just looks as bad fan fiction.

 

True that SWKotOR also looked as fan fiction but worked at some level and remain true to Star Wars universe as dispicted in the movies, books and comics (even if they f*** up here and there) but s*** Lords looks like what was done with the V(B)org.

[Spook]

I have to agree with those wishing that we could play something else then Jedi. It would give the game better replay-ability. They should also have limited choices of races to choose from, and Wookie would not be much of a problem if you pick up a NPC in the beginning that can translate for you (and even add in a few "it is not wise to upset a wookie" if you want to intimidate people ).

 

Having a slightly different story to enter the mainstory, depending on your choice of profession, would be nice as well. The side quests should also be different depending on what profession you have.

 

Well one can always wish, right?

[the proctophantasmist]

I think a weak story and fun game like PONG still has merit, whereas, the oppositte, FINAL FANTASY WHATEVER, doesn't.

There is a difference between having no story and having a bad one... I'll let you decide in which category falls Pong.

Where in the hell have you seen that the final fantasy games had good stories? I didn

[Jora]

Still its a lot better that what s*** Lords previews are hinting at, that just looks as bad fan fiction

No. It is worse. The battle meditation crap Bastila has really has no place in SW universe and the only interesting part of the plot is the attack of the Leviathan.

 

True that SWKotOR also looked as fan fiction but worked at some level and remain true to Star Wars universe as dispicted in the movies, books and comics

KotOR felt like D&D in space. I couldn't care less about comics, books or other expanded universe stuff. Only the movies (especially the original trilogy) matter.

[kefka]

Still its a lot better that what s*** Lords previews are hinting at, that just looks as bad fan fiction.

It's waaay too early to say something like that. We know almost nothing about the story yet. Hardly the time to deliver a guilty verdict.

 

We play a Jedi in the aftermath of a civil war. That's all we know!

 

If you don't like the outline now, it's going to be a long wait until the game. The full story will probably be kept under wraps. And rightly so.

[Phosphor]

I'd definately like to play as a non-human non-jedi but that's probably not going to happen. I'd settle for one or the other (a non-human jedi, or a human non-jedi) though. I don't see any reason why we can't have a non-human character unless our character is again some incarnation of another human. Which I hope is not the case.

If in the game you start off as an exiled jedi, then perhaps we'll have the option of going off the jedi path? Say screw it to the order and become a bounty hunter or smuggler.. That'd be fine.

[triCritical]

There is a difference between having no story and having a bad one... I'll let you decide in which category falls Pong.

OK, not pong, but Super Mario Brothers. Very cliche and poorly told.

 

Where in the hell have you seen that the final fantasy games had good stories? I didn

[triCritical]

If in the game you start off as an exiled jedi, then perhaps we'll have the option of going off the jedi path? Say screw it to the order and become a bounty hunter or smuggler.. That'd be fine.

I would like to play a character like Bobofet (sp?).

 

And that also answers this,

 

@triCritical: why did your KotOR 1 character hate Jedi, anyway? Hating folks just because they use the force doesn't seem exactly rational.

[Spook]

Still its a lot better that what s*** Lords previews are hinting at, that just looks as bad fan fiction

No. It is worse. The battle meditation crap Bastila has really has no place in SW universe and the only interesting part of the plot is the attack of the Leviathan.

Well, technically Battle meditation have been mentioned in the SW books, and hence have a place in the SW games. But only like a game plot item, since it should not affect the normal game. I think they used it rather well in KotOR, but it is rare so we should not see it in next game.

[Spook]

BTW, I think with 3D there is a lot more interaction possible, without the need for lots of dialogue.

There is always room for a lot of dialogues, if you seek them out.

 

Though you should always have the option to tell the NPC, that you are talking to, to go to hell and leave you alone.

[AlanC9]

If in the game you start off as an exiled jedi, then perhaps we'll have the option of going off the jedi path? Say screw it to the order and become a bounty hunter or smuggler.. That'd be fine.

I would like to play a character like Bobofet (sp?).

 

And that also answers this,

 

@triCritical: why did your KotOR 1 character hate Jedi, anyway? Hating folks just because they use the force doesn't seem exactly rational.

Well, that explains your motives, anyway.

 

I still don't get why a character wouldn't want to use the force, assuming he had the potential to. Taking Jedi levels doesn't imply being a member in good standing of the order. Hell, Jolee was a smuggler.

 

And I hate to bring this up since it's way OT, but did AD&D really have any of the "fine detail of micro CRPG combat" that was missing from the IE?

 

Reading some of the posts above, I can't help but think that a lot of folks here are doomed to be disappointed. KotOR 2, while hopefully improved in some ways, is still going to be More Of The Same. Folks who didn't like KotOR 1 should probably just delete their Obsidian bookmarks right now.

[triCritical]

BTW, I think with 3D there is a lot more interaction possible, without the need for lots of dialogue.

There is always room for a lot of dialogues, if you seek them out.

 

Though you should always have the option to tell the NPC, that you are talking to, to go to hell and leave you alone.

I think you missed my point on how in PS:T dialogue was used to make the IE more interactive. It was just not in talking, it was in other things too. PS:T had the most interactive environment then any of the IE games, but the way it was made interactive was through the dialogue window. For instance, when you went to the sensory crystals or whatever, you were able to percieve sense, through the use of dialogue. The point is you were able to interact physically and emotionally without ever talking to anyone through the use of the dialogue menu, and this is what set PS:T apart from the other IE games.

 

With the 3D engines a lot more interaction is possible without having to actually write tons of dialogue to explain what is happening, or to walk you through the steps, although KotOR, did seem to resort to that way too much.

[Spook]

I have to agree that some of those dialogues is unnessisary with the graphic of today, but that does not mean that they could not enter large dialogue trees for thoose that like a lot of dialogue in that game. They should just make sure it is optional, and that you can get thought the game without it if you want to.

 

In Torment, which I liked a lot, it was more or less mandantory if you wanted to get anywhere.

[triCritical]

I still don't get why a character wouldn't want to use the force, assuming he had the potential to. Taking Jedi levels doesn't imply being a member in good standing of the order. Hell, Jolee was a smuggler.

For no other reason then it would be nice to play something different. I remember a guy name Sir Bob on the old IWD boards asking if someone had a Fiend Folio because one of his players wanted to play some obsure plant???? Of course that is bordering lunacy.

 

And I hate to bring this up since it's way OT, but did AD&D really have any of the "fine detail of micro CRPG combat" that was missing from the IE?

 

Yes, but mainly because of engine limitations, I imagine.

 

Reading some of the posts above, I can't help but think that a lot of folks here are doomed to be disappointed. KotOR 2, while hopefully improved in some ways, is still going to be More Of The Same. Folks who didn't like KotOR 1 should probably just delete their Obsidian bookmarks right now.

 

I hope you are wrong...